I can't argue with your point about Cirie having to examine Shane...

But I still think that Terry would have been a complete idiot to give up his immunity to Nick, Austin, or Sally... they would have still been the minority tribe regardless and the other group is too tight. That would have left Terry with no safety net in a minority group, and he'd be gone the first time he didn't win immunity the next time. The way he is going about it now will allow him to break into at least the top 5 or 6 when the other tribe will be falling apart and looking for swing votes. I guess only time will tell whether he made a good move or not, though.

As for Cirie the only good points your cited was her ability to sink to the background - which was exactly what I said I didn't like about her. While this strategy works in Survivor, I get tired of seeing that type of person win. Terry may come on too strong, but at least he's done a great deal of work to ensure his survival. If Cirie had been on the weaker tribe at the merge, she would have never outlasted Terry.

My two cents on why I like Cirie / don't like Terry

Long version:

Part of why I like Cirie is because of her humorous personality and her "regular person" feel, but also because she is playing the most impressive social game out there at the moment. To go from a likely boot in the very first episode, then survive a tribe swap that looked to put her at a severe disadvantage and make it all the way to the final 7 (and likely farther) is very impressive. I don't really think she has faded into the background like Danni last year, Amber in All-Stars, etc. I think she's a vibrant character in a tribe full of vibrant characters, and more often than not she's depicted as being in the middle, trying to get Casaya to get along. Danielle and Bruce I think are more of the wallflower type this year, and Courtney at times has faded into the background as well. Cirie's been majorly featured in each episode for quite awhile. Last year I swore we didn't hear Danni utter a word until about the time of the merge.

Just by virtue of his strength and age, Terry was a virtual shoe-in for the merge since whatever tribe he was on would have been fools to dump him. Him making it as far as he has is not a surprise whatsoever. Yet despite his strength, and the young manpower in Nick & Austin, Casaya was still able to defeat them in 3 out of the 5 tribe immunity challenges. Where was Terry's strength when it really would have made a difference? Sure he could continue winning immunity and gain a spot in the final two, but with Casaya having such a large majority on the jury a win by him is pretty unlikely, even if someone like Bruce defects and votes with La Mina. Terry comes across as a wannabe Tom (Palau's winner), he may have the individual strength but his social game has sucked sucked sucked so far. No matter how you cut it, it's never good to be in a situation where you are outnumbered 6 to 1, even if you have an unlimited supply of hidden immunity idols in your back pocket. The only person left who even likes him is Bruce, the girls think he's a male chauvinist (not shown in the series but mentioned in post-interviews), and Aras/Shane aren't exactly big fans of him either. He's relying on immunity to get him through to the end-game, and that has never worked. It didn't work the first season (Kelly won her way into the final two), and I don't see it working this time.

Short version:

I like Cirie because she's funny, endearing, an underdog from the get-go, and playing a good social game. I don't like Terry because he's arrogant, one of those pre-ordained winners (i.e. cast to be the hero), strategically narrowminded, and playing a crap social game.

Wouldn't this pretty much describe Terry too? At the merge he had the largest target on his back, but now will have out-survived his entire tribe and will likely break into the very tight Casaya tribe.

What strategy do you think would have worked for Terry at the merge? No matter what social game he would have played, he would have never broken into the Casaya tribe - just look at his other cast members who were voted off - all had a variety of personalities which didn't do jack for them. Terry's only option was to win immunities, and at that point it wouldn't make a bit of difference what his social game was as he'd be seen as a massive threat. His only option is to win immunities and hope to survive until Casaya breaks down.

You seem to root for Cirie because she is the underdog who you are amazed to have made it this far, however, I say that it would be far more amazing if Terry managed to pull out a win at this point, whereas it would be the norm if Cirie won. Her type has won numerous times before, whereas Terry's type has never won. If you want to root for the true underdog, then Terry is the man.

As for Danielle being a wallflower, I disagree. She very early on cemented a 4 person alliance and has not shied away from swaying the alliance to vote a particular way, or arguing with them. At least that's more than Cirie did. I seriously can not think of a single thing that she did yet this season to influence a single event.

I really wish they'd find a way to adjust the show to help out the stronger players. People like Aras and Terry have no shot of winning, and it's becoming a very old story year after year.

Oh once they made the merge and Terry was in the minority he did have a clear target on his back. For people like Cirie who clearly lack the physical strength, the toughest part of the game is hanging in there until the merge. For people like Terry who are among the strongest physically, the toughest part is not being picked off as soon as a merge occurs.

I find Cirie's survival more impressive because she has hung in there because of her social game...she had the target on her back after Melinda was gone, and managed to work it so at the next tribal council four people had votes cast against them, and she wasn't one of them. As for Terry, winning immunity consistently is certainly a feat, but had he lost any of those challenges he would have most likely gotten the majority of the votes. Cirie did not need individual immunity to survive, whereas Terry did.

I do think Terry could have done more to put himself in a better position. Most alliances in Survivor have cracks in them, and the best players are able to find these faults and use them to their benefit. Terry could have possibly swayed a Casaya over to his side, and while you can't really blame him for trying, he overplayed his hand. He tried to get everyone except Aras to come over to his side, and you know the Casaya folk eventually shared a laugh over this. If he had worked on one person, like Bruce and pounded home the fact that they wanted him and only him, that Casaya wants him out next, and perhaps even give him an empty final two/three offer the chances of success would have been higher. Maybe even play up some conflict within your own alliance to seal the deal. Most of what he & La Mina tried were basically desperate, obvious ploys to anyone who would listen. and I truly think a drastic move should have been made at the final 10 (i.e. usage of the hidden idol), so that they could at the very least even up the jury numbers.

As for Terry being the underdog, I suppose he could be classified as that at this point. But I'm too selective with my underdog choices to root for him! I usually root for people who are underdogs from the start like Cirie rather than those who are in a dominant position at the beginning of the game.

Our definition of a wallflower differs...I think someone like Cirie doesn't fit the bill because she's such a big personality on the show. Her strategy may be partly to avoid conflict, not ruffle any feathers, etc. (I'm sure she has alliances now, they're just being carefully hidden by the editors) but as far as character development goes she's one of the most distinctive and memorable. Danielle may have a more "open" strategy so to speak but as far as her personality goes, she's not all that unique or interesting. We've seen people like her a million times before, and it doesn't help that the editors have somewhat forgotten her in the past few episodes though she's starting to get more air time as the cast dwindles. No one this year I think really defines wallflower though in an Amber, Danni, Darrah type of way.

And while the wallflower person does tend to at least last longer than they should, I disagree that the winner is usually of this type. The most dominant player in the show's history won the game as little as two seasons ago in Palau! In fact I would say that either the dominant strategist or physically strongest has won 4 times so far out of Survivor's 11 seasons (Richard, Ethan, Brian, Tom). And as for the other winners I'd only classify a few as the "wallflower" type (Vecepia, Amber, Danni). Everyone else falls somewhere in between.

I hear where you are coming from, haerpinot, and your points are well articulated. And you are correct about Tom, whom I overlooked. He was by far the most deserving Survivor winner of all time. I also agree with you that Terry is not a master strategist and his attempts to break apart the other tribe have been very weak.

However, I still disagree with you about Cirie, and how much she has done to secure her spot. If memory serves me correctly even she was commenting on how little she had to do to save her butt... she just had to sit back and watch Shane and Co. bicker and fight amongst themselves. Perhaps there is things she has done that hit the cutting room floor, but everything I've seen on the tube suggests her greatest assest is to not make waves or to be perceived as a threat. As I see it she has fallen into a lot of luck. Unquestionably, if she was on Terry's team at the merge she would have been long gone, no matter what her personality was.

But this is what makes reality shows fun... 100 different people can watch and form 100 different opinions. I like the contestants that use brute force, whereas you appear to prefer the strategist type.

Thanks and I got a bit wordy there but you brought up a lot of interesting points!

I'm more impressed with Cirie's strategy than you I suppose because she shouldn't really still be there, and she's being a bit more cunning than the rest. Logic told us that she would be gone in the very first episode, yet somehow she was able to swing the votes so that they knocked out the strongest member (if socially inept) of the tribe instead. As for being cunning, it's obvious from her confessionals that Cirie has been really biting her tongue since the merge from four tribes into two, and I'm always impressed with players who are able to adapt/change their core personality in order to get further in the game. Everyone else out there now seems to be just being themselves, and actively voicing their dislike for each other whenever they feel like it. Cirie has been saying from day one that she can't stand these people, yet she gets along with all the people in her alliance more so than anyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if her fellow tribemates are shocked at how much she's been busting on them in confessionals.

You're right though that if Cirie were on Terry's tribe she would have been gone by now. The boys club alliance would have made it nearly impossible for her to survive the tribal council after their first loss. The way the tribes get divided is a lot about luck though, and she happened to get lucky that day, along with the rest of Casaya. A number of them (Courtney & Shane in particular) would have been doomed if they had ended up on a tribe with more normal La Mina-like people.

and it would be absolutely no fun if everyone had the same favorite, there would be nothing to discuss without some difference in opinion. As for who I tend to root for, when I first started to watch reality shows I was more a fan of the nice, nonconfrontational, modest people but as time went by I began to appreciate gameplay and interesting characters a lot more. So now I tend to go for a combination of those two when picking a favorite, hence Cirie. The worst thing you can possibly be on shows like Survivor to me is boring, and luckily most of the people who fall into that category are now gone.

I agree with everything... except I'm not rooting for Terry. I'm rooting for...

Wait for it...

No one.

Sally was my only hope. So, I shall say it. Bring on Survivor 13! Despite an unlucky installment, may it have more luck than this entire season's worth of a bland cast of characters. Everyone from... all those Guatemalans to all these unlikeable people. May they rot in reality TV hell.

With Cirie smack-dab in the middle of the blazing inferno.

The final two are

[spoil]Aras and a young female... Danielle?[/spoil]

They are kicked out in the following order:

[spoil]
-- Aras
-- Danielle?

03 Terry
04 Cirie
05 Shane
06 Courtney???
07 Bruce (is taken off the show)

Terry wins 7 immunity challenges in a row.[/spoil]

Well, I'm glad somebody at least partially agrees. I thought I was the only one who didn't really care for Cirie.

I will disagree with you about them being bland... there's been some very un-bland characters this year with Shane leading the pack. However, you are right about them being unlikeable. There were VERY few contestants this year that I truly liked. On the positive side, I really did enjoy the gameplay changes this year... Exile island and the extra hidden immunity idol added some VERY interesting strategy to the game. Definitely not the best Survivor year, but far from the worst.

The season has been much better than I'm making it out to be. I think the characters have been good, and that it's far from the worst Survivor. If it went on sale tomorrow on DVD, I'd buy it. I'm just more or less upset that I don't have anyone to root for now. Why can't every season be Palau (when Tom won)?

I think Terry is a dominating player. He's just made some mistakes. But, I'm certain that a few people here who think there were more possibilities for Terry would have found themselves in the same predicament every time. I'd name these people, but I'm too lazy for search for the posts. Libs was probably one.

*shakes fist*

Libs.

Maybe there should be SURVIVOR: DOMINATION with RUpert, Tom, Terry and a bunch of guys dominating each other.

In leather.

[spoil]Good for Terry. I have a ton more respect for him if this is true. He is one dominant player. Too bad he appears to make a boo-boo in the last lap. The 4th quarter. The third period. The bottom of the ninth. And... other sports terms for last moments of the game.

The island hates Bruce. He should be on Anti-Lost. Oh wait, he already is.

Horrible final two. I hope Aras chokes on his cash. Maybe Danielle will buy a shirt that covers a bit more of her breasts.

Bitter much? Very much so. At least Cirie's hands are no where near the big moolah. Just the "Thanks for playing" moolah that the contestants likely get.[/spoil]

I had to check about six times to make sure you posted that.

You're going to hell.

In a barbed wire handbasket.

I think what I read is...

[spoil]Terry's die was cast the minute that the teams merged, the only reason he stays until the final 3 is that he wins immunity and when the first opportunity comes to oust him, he is gone.

I don't think the immunity idol is ever used, it's no longer effective after the 4th person is voted out, but the 7 "immunities straight" thing could be misleading.[/spoil]


I agree. I very much wanted Sally to win this season.

Eww, Rupert in leather is quite the disturbing visual image.

And apparently many disagree but after being kinda put off by some of them at first I've actually grown to really like everybody still left in the game (except Terry), despite how dysfunctional and completely nuts they all are. I find their insanity bizarrely appealing. It's also the most entertaining final set of people in a long while, curiously though had La Mina dominated Casaya (as seemed likely early on), it would be one of the dullest. Could you imagine the snoozefest we would have endured had Ruth Marie, Nick, and Dan lasted till the final four or so?? I nearly fall asleep at the thought.

Anyway this is the first Survivor since Pearl Islands I've really been able to get into, so barring a dull sprint to the finish line, which seems entirely unlikely at this point, I'll be pretty satisfied overall.

I actually kinda agree. Once I get over Sally's unfortunate departure, I think I'll be able to enjoy the rest of the show. I'm still anxious to see how all this plays out. It's miles ahead of Vanuatu and Guatemala, so I'm happy.

Hehe...loved Courtney and Shane's reactions during the reward challenge. Priceless

I don't even know if your avatar disagrees or agrees with that statement.

Poor Bruce. Courtney's self discovery of her not being too well-liked has finally begun. Same for Shane.

I'm likin' Cirie a lot more now. I didn't really notice Danielle before the past episodes, she's pretty nice as well. I wouldn't mind Aras, Danielle, and Cirie going to the end. It would be a good group of people. Terry's meh sometimes he's too much about himself like him doing a big reveal and making it a big deal that he was in NASA.

It's strange how these two have managed to last in the game for so long. Normally the ones who alienate others get voted out early, no?

Aw. Although, given how much they were hyping this up, I was expecting Bruce to be removed from the game.

Still does not compare to the ultimate Survivor medical emergency, Michael faling into the fire in Outback.

Shane and Courtney. I don't even know where to begin with those two. Did they do extensive background checks? Have these two been in mental institutions before? Like, seriously.

Yeah, sad for Bruce.

And add me to the group that likes/loves this season a lot more than recent ones, just because of how dysfunctional they all are. The Shane and Courtney thing is gold.

I can't wait for next episode, Shane looks to really push over the edge. Not just the blackberry thing, but the face he makes when explaining it. Priceless.

Really too bad for Bruce. After Sally, I wanted him to go far. He hasn't done a whole lot for the game, but I liked him a lot. It's got to be a horrible feeling to lose out on a 1 in 7 shot at a million dollars, without being voted off.

With the mighty six left, I'm not rooting for anyone. I don't like anybody now, and I'm doubtful I'll come to like anybody any more than I do.

Terry: Strong competitor, but not a really likeable person. He's the unlikeable version of Tom from Palau.

Shane: I think he's a Survivor Dream. He is completely character. There's no possible way to figure him out, and he has added the most drama to the show in a while. I hate him, but I enjoy what he does for Survivor. Without him, this season may not be as fun to watch. He's a ticking time bomb.

Courtney: Bleh. Don't feel much for her. She adds plenty of drama with Shane. Aside from that, she probably deserves the titles she received in the reward challenge (out of the 7 remaining).

Danielle: Coaster. Complete coaster. What has she done for the game? When has she said "Let's vote out this person and align with these people"? Never. She'll coast for as long as she can.

Aras: Hate him. I can't even say he's an unlikeable Tom, because he really hasn't done anything. He's perceived as a leader, but he's not a leader. He's perceived as a strong player, but he's not a strong player (no immunity or reward wins).

Cirie: Color me unimpressed with her coasting skills. She's the type to sit back and criticize someone, but she doesn't do anything to help.

I can't even pick someone I want to win. A really horrible final six. Some good players, but no one to like. Thank God for The Amazing Race, which has quite a few likeable teams, except for Meatheads.

By the way, I read the spoiler, and if it's true then I believe that...
[spoil]My original assumption of Danielle winning was right. Considering Aras is a jerk, I doubt they'd give it to him over her. Even though she did coast a bit, I wouldn't think she's that undeserving. She made a few good decisions, like when she single handily got them to vote out Bobby, and when she stuck with her original Casaya tribe over pressuring La Mina. And because she's the biggest outsider of Casaya right now, I'd think she does something right in these last couple weeks. Cirie and Courtney are much more coasters, they actually did 0 game-wise. Terry played a crap game, not being social. For me, the only people "deserving" would be Aras who just sat on his tribe lead, and Shane who has done the most. Obviously Shane could never win, so Danielle is a fine 2nd choice to Aras. And he's a dick anyways, so I'd be happy assuming she takes it.[/spoil]

[spoil]Danielle may be more deserving than Cirie and Courtney, but that doesn't say much for me. I don't think she's done a whole lot. And there really is no tribe. Everyone is an outsider. They really aren't a tribe whatsoever. Shane and Courtney basically have caused all this drama, and there's not a lot of trust or understanding in the game.

To me, Aras is less deserving than Terry (his immunity wins alone show that he has played an incredible game, despite sucking at everything else... to me, winning so many immunity challenges pushes him ahead) and even Shane. Shane gets his way a lot, and he is quite a player of the game. He's just a complete asshole. All Aras does is play a silent game. He's one step above being a coaster. He really is only sitting back while Courtney and Shane self-destruct on each other, so he can slip past them into the Final Four. Judging by spoilers, that is the case.[/spoil]