http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/11 ... index.html

Today is a sad day to be a Ukrainian. The election that was won fair and square by the opposition candidate, was taken away from him by the sitting Prime Minister and his cronies at the Central Election Committee. (And this is exactly why I would rather have an electoral college type system, rather than direct elections).

Suffice it to say, that the most populous region of the country (which voted primarily for Yanukovich, the current PM) had a 97% turnout - something unheard of anywhere outside of Saddam's Iraq. That, coupled with another region that had a 90% turnout, insured Yanukovich 1 million "extra" votes, and it puts him out of reach in a country of 47 million citizens.

There are protests going on in the capital city of Kiev right now; 200,000 people showed up. All western observers (including Sen. Richard Lugar from Indiana) criticized the election and called it fraudulent.

I was denied the right to vote yesterday, because all the people who were registered with the consulate in New York were not added to the voters list, which they were supposed to.

This is a sad day to be a Ukrainian...

*end rant.

Sorry to hear that, K. I feel your pain.

I really do.

Now you know how the Dems feel.

Krem. You mentioned the opposition won it fair and square but you then mentioned that the current PM's vote tally was out of reach? I'm probably misreading ... could you clear it up?

Hehehe.


I did not dobt for a second that Yanukovych was going to win the election, one way or another. He is Putin's puppet and Putin and his people have done enough to sabotage Yushchenko's campaign anyway.

Like I said, the most populous region in the country, which votes heavily (to the tune of 96%) for the sitting PM, had a 97% turnout - something that is impossible to achieve in any election.

To top it off, the voters list for that region had about 110% of the eligible population in it.

There were a couple more regions with the same breakdown, all voting fopr the sitting PM.

Basically, the election was rigged by the Central Election Commitee and their representatives in the regions.

http://www1.cvk.gov.ua/wp0011e - here's the official site with the results, if anybody is interested.

If you click on the link "Course of voting in oblasts", you'll the two regions that stand out: the DOnetsk region with 97% turnout (the most populous region in the country), and the Luhansk region with 90% turnout. Both of those voted nearly 100% for Yanukovych - the sitting PM.

oh ok .. so the opposition didn't really win (per say) but the election was heavily rigged!!

What about the Ivano-Frankivsk region and the Ternopil region as well as the Lviv region which all voted for Yushchenko and had a 90+% turnout. Seems kind of weird too...

Neither one of them had a 90%+ turnout.

They would've won if all the votes were counted properly.

All the exit polls put Yuschenko on top of Yanukovych by a differential that was outside the margin of error.

Then I must be not understaning something here:

http://www1.cvk.gov.ua/wp0011e

That site has frames, so I can't see which page you're referring to.

Make sure you look at the "Course of voting" page, and not the "Results of voting" to figure out what the turnout was.

I just figured that

I'm sorry. The numbers are so exaggerated you'd think their would be ome sort of outside condemnation by now. :?

There is; all the EU countries and the U.S. have come out against the results.

this is the first ive heard about it

Here's the BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4031981.stm

Yes. Just read the Times article.



Sorry the post is a bit long, I know some people can't enter Times because they don't have an account.

Now Yushchenko has declared himself president and sworn the presidental oath with his hand on a bible. So Krem, do you think there's a chance, even though it may be small, that there'll be a civil war?

I doubt it. If anything, the country will just split in two (may be as some sort of federation), which is not necessarily a bad idea. The main problem for the current establishment is that Kiev, which is the capital, overwhelmingly supports Yuschenko.

That said, I think it was a stupid idea for Yuschenko to declare himself the winner; it shows that he is not very interested in consolidating the country, but is all about power.

Uh, how should they react to "growing mass protests."

*Recount*

Actually, not really, its quite clear the counting is exactly what is at question here, and that no one is going to believe the outcome of a recount at this point anyways. (Speaking of which, how goes the recount for governor in Oregon?).

Do you really think it is a clear geographical split Krem...as in, the country could "split in two" or is it more pockets urban/rural, etc? I don't know, I really have limited knowledge of this in scheme of things. But forced relocation rarely works...nor do rigged elections though either. :?

Here is the country after the first tour of the elections:



Abous as geographic as it can get (and it's not like in the U.S. either, there are virtually no "pockets" of dissent). The west voted for Yuschenko, the South and the East - for Yanukovich.


There are two problems with a recound: a) the central government will still be the one controlling and b) what would it matter, if the ballot boxes are stuffed with fake votes?

*dramatic narrator voice*

What country will Putin annex after Ukraine?

Belarus?

Kazakhstan?

Will he nuke Chechnya?

Stay tuned for next week's episode of Eastern Europe: The Happiest Place on Earth!

*shudders* I smell commies in the air.

evil commies...they smell like cabbage