Much appreciated, Eagle, I was getting very bored with them trying to redirect the focus on me, and away from what their buddy did, as that's exactly what they were doing. This isn't about me, but they sure wanted to turn it into that.

No problemo... my last word on the issue (unless somebody has a specific question for me) is that just remember Eagle that you can't always find a middle ground to a problem, and sometimes you just have to take a side and stand with that decision. As the admin and owner of the site, you can solve a lot of these problems by putting your foot down and telling those involved the way it is, and the way they will act if they want to be a part of your site.

This has gone on for several months, and there does not appear to be any slowing down no matter how many agreements are drawn up. I say it's time for you to tell everybody like it is.

Your welcome mav.

Unfourtunatly, this issue is very much about you.

To my knowledge, and I trust every one of the moderators on this forum, noone gave Loyal your email address. He has not claimed to get it through us, he told me he thinks he got it on Oscar night in the AIM chat. Weather it is true or not, I don't care.

The fact remains, with all the information provided, the Mod Team came to a decision. You have taken issue with that decision, and you alone. Thus this is very much about you.

The fact that people here have started pointing out your faults, I assume has alot to do with the fact that you are so very quickto point out others. I assume also that if you stop, so will they.

I personally just want to discuss exactly how you would like this remedy'd because we will be standing by our initial decision, that is not negotiable.

This is not negotiable. I trust one mod. I've been given reason to not trust this group. I've seen one bad decision after another made. I'm embarrassed that I ever stuck up for you guys to Ripper, Erendis, and andaroo. There is no remedy.

And don't accuse me of starting in on the attacks, when dolce accused me in fromt of the whole board of threatening her, and Snrub started with his unprovoked commentary, as did Tony. Again, let's not try to blame me for the sins of others. That is exactly the reason my trust in this team is no longer there. It's what's encouraged around here.

Mav, do I need to remind you that I came home from work this mornign to find this forum littered with 10 threads from you, attacking and calling out every mod except Libs? You then proceeded to claim a conspiricy that you would not mention, alluded to lies and deciet that you would not explain. You defaced both me and baba, making it seem like we were doing you some horrible injustice.

I understand that you trust only Libs, and that is OK. Libs is a great mod, and deserves your trust. So do the rest of us, but if you choose not to give it, I will accept that.

Dolce simply told you how she felt when you said what you did. She felt scared, she felt threatened. I understand that wasn't your intention, but that doesn't change her feelings.

Tony never once attacked you, you insulted him and his intelligence multiple times.

I ask you again: I personally just want to discuss exactly how you would like this remedy'd because we will be standing by our initial decision, that is not negotiable.

You did threaten Dolce, Mav. My commentary was provoked by the thread at hand - you can't pick and choose who comes in and comments on your jibberish.

Once more, don't you think it's odd that you're the only one who has these issues with all the mods?

Mav they made their decision on the matter. I think you should just move on.
You don't have to agree with it or like it but don't waste your time or energy running in circles.

Hey, since they obviously don't like me, I'm more than happy to give them a REAL reason not to. I mean, shit, I defended them to the high heavens and got knives put in my back for it right afterwards, so excuse me for not appreciating it.



Libs is decent and honorable. Over the course of 3 years, she's more than earned my trust and respect. Earning is the way to get that. Remember, the honor system didn't work out, and I did try to just give it to the rest, but they quickly showed me why earning it is the way to go. None of you really seem interested in earning anything. It's like you just expect a free pass.



Dolce could have brought that up when it was said if she felt that strongly, not make claims about restraining orders for threatening to knock her teeth out and beat her up, which I clearly never said. Excusing her doesn't change the way she dealt with it, and she was wrong. Just accept it.



puleeeeze...he's got you snowed, but then again, he has been showned favoritism here.



Try earning my respect and trust again. That is not negotiable, and if aren't willing to earn it by your actions, then you're expecting a free pass, and I don't give those.

Um...NO, I didn't. Why are you still here? Weren't you told to take your ball and go home for the day?

This will probably get deleted, but I think it fair I should be allowed to defend myself when attacked - which appears to be happening more now that I can't defend myself.

I find it interesting that you continue to accuse me that I have somehow wronged you, but have yet to give a single example despite my repeated requests. You point out numerous examples to attempt to support your other arguments, but skirt this issue and continue to be vague.

I have not attacked you - I have never attacked you. Period. I do not operate that way.

Mav, you alone can decide if my actions warrent your trust. I am the person I am, I believe I am handling things correctly, and it is your choice to trust me or otherwise. None of the mod's have expressed their dislike of you, rather they are tireing of dealing with some of your petty issues. They want to enjoy these forums just lke you, and you are taking that right away from them.

Dolce had every right to tell you exactly what she thought of you, and about what you said. She went about it in a much more mature manner than you went about dealing with this issue. Tony has done nothing but tell you that he harbors no ill feelings toward you, and ask why you feel that way about him. You resorted to personal insults, not him.

I ask you again: I personally just want to discuss exactly how you would like this remedy'd because we will be standing by our initial decision, that is not negotiable.

And they are doing the same for me. So was loyal, yet they didn't mind, but they sure seem to mind when somebody starts interfering with their fun, don't they? I guess they'll just have to suck it up like they expect me to.



Dolce started in with her long boring rants. Hardly worth praising.



That's because I'm smart enough to know that Tony isn't Mr. Innocent. Please don't tell me that you aren't, because I've always thought you were a smart guy.



Change the record, dude.

Not true mav. I know me and arsi took your issues with loyal very seriously. We had multiple conversations with each other about it. I am sorry that the end result didn't turn out to be what you felt was just, but you are going to have to live with that.

As for Dolce and Tony. Picking on Dolce's writing style is hardly mature. As for Tony, he has done nothing to you. I understand you may feel he is using an 'innocent act' to get his point across, unfourtunatly, when he has repeatedly asked you to tell him what he did to harm you, you refuse to answer. It leads me to believe that all he is infact guilty of, is being friends with loyal, something we know you view as bad taste from your PM to the mods.

As for the "record", it wont change until you answer the question: I personally just want to discuss exactly how you would like this remedy'd because we will be standing by our initial decision, that is not negotiable.

Maverikk, in regards to the specific e-mail that loyal sent you, the administrators and moderators, including me, had a large conversation about what should be done about the issue. We truly and honestly analysed the situation, and tried to come to a conclusion. We ended up deciding since the e-mail was not mean spirited or threatening in nature and since it was infact an e-mail and not part of World of KJ property, that we shouldn't ban loyalfromlondon. The deal that was made between you, loyal, and the administrators was that on WOKJ you two would leave eachother alone. We cannot control what goes on private messengers or e-mail, and it we decided it would be unfair to ban him for that. Stretching the administration powers of this forum onto people's e-mail and private messengers is a huge mistake.

In the end, we did decide what loyal did was wrong. We weren't trying to say that he is innocent, or conspire against you. I promise you that, Mav. Infact, most of the moderators could see your side, and understand what you were feeling, and don't mean any disrespect towards you. We just didn't feel loyal deserved a banning. As a group, we came to that decision. We sent loyalfromlondon an e-mail telling him how serious we were taking this situation, and how we don't want it to happen again.

So, that basically summarizes the whole situation regarding loyal's e-mail that was sent. All of this is the truth, and I really hope you can understand that. We didn't just ignore you, we seriously debated over this. Eagle has done a really good job of addressing all problems or quirks regarding the forum and it's members, including loyal and you, and allowing everyone to input their opinion.

I was hoping you could move forward on this now, and continue to make the great posts that you can when you are in a good mood. But this whole thread has not helped at all, Maverikk. What are we supposed to do now, Mav? We've tried really hard to attend to this situation, and a lot of people have tried really hard in this thread to explain things.

That's all that pertains to that issue. I assure you it was taken seriously.

The new issue is all of this; this thread and your insults, etc. You are, just because of personality, a very argumentative person. And that can be great. I love reading some of your good arguments towards film, like your Fantastic Four will get $60 million thread. You have a lot of good arguments there. It is when you break into insults and demeaning comments like you are now that just further lessens other people's opinion of you. You think all the moderators and administrators, including me, are wrong and against you, and you claim to not hold any of our opinions, or the opinions of the forum members, in any high regards. So should we bother continuing this? You said you don't care for our opinions, so should we just shut up? A lot of members in this thread have indeed used insults against you, you aren't the only one, but they did do so in response to your insults. What do you expect?

Also, I'd like to hear what problem you have with me. I don't know what I have done that has warranted you not to trust me, or why I deserve to be called out like this.

If the only thing you're going to do is insult me in response, please just ignore me. I'm not going to bother trying to resolve things or explain anything if you're just going to insult me.

PEACE, Mike

And what about the PM you sent where you accused me of being the problem, and not loyal? Are you going to admit you were wrong? BTW... Zingaling told me that you lied about that, but I think he clearly showed today that you were telling the truth about his vocal opinion.



Well, I did that after she started ranting. I didn't think I'd be accountable if she wasn't.



I guess you haven't read where he's admitted that he loves to try to stir shit up with me unprovoked. I can point you toward your own forum rules, and you can tell me how he's not breaking them by doing that. I have no use for him. I'm not interested in responding to him so he's satisfied. In fact, if I never see another post of his again, it'll be too soon for me. Can I possibly be any clearer about how insignificant he is to me?



I'm sorry if by answering the question means giving you the answer you want. Life isn't so simple. I'll just start copy and pasting that everytime you ask me that again. I've already told you, there is no remedy. I don't know what it is exactly that you're trying to remedy.

There you go again Mav. That PM was not an attack on you, and you are totally miscontruing what it said. Now you throw in that Zingaling said I lied? Lied about what mav?

As for Tony, I did see that thread, he told you that he never had any hard feelings against you, that e enjoyd your posts, and found you a very respectable guy. He then jokingly added that your fun to play with. I am sorry that you couldn't see the obvious humor and lightheartedness of the comment. It must have been misunderstood, just like your comments to dolce were misunderstood.

As for the resolution mav, if you want nothing, other than to continue this current line of pointless discussion ... then I must ask to what end?

Do you just want to "make it known to the forum" what has transpired? If so ... let us please start drafting a post, explaing PROPERLY what happened in this situation, it would be similar to the first post in this thread. I will put it in on the portal, and in every forum for a week. Everyone can know what happened, our decision, and why we came to it. But all the topics will be locked, and any discussion will be directed to a thread in this forum.

I'm not going to insult you, Mike. You want to know my problem with you? When I was being continuously baited by loyal, and I was saying absolutely nothing and ignoring him, I decided to go to you to see if you could get something done about it. You blew me off and told me that I was to blame for any problems between loyal and any other members. Does that PM ring any bells?

When you were made a mod here, who was the person who welcomed you first? I did that, even though I was pissed at you standing beside Sean after his latest tirade. I gave you my support, not knowing if you would get it from another soul, and when I went to you for help, you dismissed the very idea with a quick and cold response. Was that supposed to instill trust?

About agreeing with you and all those names you listed in that PM that loyal was innocent, and I was the blame. Are you going to answer the question and admit that you were wrong with this latest provacation?



Actually, it was no misunderstanding, as he has said it more than once, and via PM, and has engaged in it every chance he gets. You do nothing about it and excuse it, though.



Before I agree to that, I have another question for you. Remember when you told bABA to tell me to start a thread with my grievances about loyal? Why were you trying to set me up for a fall. It was the next day that you sent me that PM listing all the names that viewed me as the problem. I thought that was strange, but I'm willing to hear your side of the story.

Yes, I remember that. That PM was in regards to you and loyal on the forums, and to tell you the truth, I had thought at the time that overall you were being more aggressive and aggravating. I felt like you were grasping at what exactly was loyal's "baiting". I thought, you were essentially, being too paranoid. Sort of like when you thought baumer's apology to you was fake simply because he later became a moderator. I understand how it can seem like everyone is against you, but I do believe you are too paranoid sometimes. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I feel.

Remembering back to that PM incident, I do think I was too cold and abrupt. I should have at least explained myself better or tried better to understand what you were saying. So, for what it's worth, I apologize for not being a little more patient.

Thanks for giving me a chance to respond.

PEACE, Mike

Mike Q is a mod, you PM'd him, he gave you his honest response. Rather than accepting it, you went to every other mod and continued to recieve a similar response.

I stand by Mike Q's response to you, it was the correct one at the time. Had you PM'd me, the response would have been similar. PM'ing me and baba with every post loyal made was a little eccentric, but we listened. When we found nothing at fault, you did not listen.

Once the situation deterorated, and we felt something needed to be done to curb your and Loyals growning flame war, we took action, and came to an agreement with both of you.

Loyal has been fine since, the email asside, and you have our response with regards to that.

Since this is all out in the open and Me and Mav are going to haev a discussion over th e phone tonight, I feel that this needs to be said.

I am not going to preface this by saying anything complimentary about Mav for the sake of stoking anyone's ego.

Mav, the decision was made and it is final and it is one that you have to live with. What you possibly are trying to accomplish here makes no sense. You feel you were given a raw deal and that is fine. Big fuckin deal. There are plenty of decisions in life that I do not like and there ain't a goddamn thing that can be done about it. Eagle runs thi ssite the way he runs this site. He is JACK and the rest of us are the marines at Guantanamo Bay. Get used to it. You can think you are Kaffe all you want but there is no code red here that will be admitted on trial. You may very well be Private Santiago but nothing else is going to be done about this. I think you should drop it and move on. You keep berating everyone the way you are and soon enough, you'll be the one with the suspension.

I am at work until 9, gotta go to a wake for an hour and pay my respects. But I'll be in touch tonight. But seriously, this is so far out of control that it is getting borderline psychotic.

I mean, the way this thread is going on it's like someone died or something.

Well, I'm glad that you now see that I wasn't being paranoid, and there were definitely some serious issues with him. I had no choice but to put him on my ignore list after that. Don't have that option anymore. I gnored him for months, which is why I couldn't see how you and none of the mods would notice. He'd start his day off by gravitating to my profile and being in negative opposition of anything I would say. What a way to start your day off, huh? I pointed that stuff out to bABA. There were also 2 cases of me saying at the forums that I didn't want to fight or argue anymore, and directly afterwards, he blantantly tried to pick a fight, and his moderator buddies did absolutely nothing. Again, Mike, I can't be expected to trust that kind of performance. I wouldn't call it a job well done.

Now, the reason that I was civil to you and civil to baumer, is because you guys were respectful.

Mav, I don't believe Mike ever said that he believes you wern't being paranoid, or that there were serious issues with loyal.

His exact words were:



Please stop twisting things around.

Actually, I didn't go to any other mod and ask for anything. Why would I do that when I had already seen where their loyalties were? Where are you getting that info from, because it never happened.



Big surprise, Eagle would have blamed Mav and defended loyal...like you're still doing. bABA asked me to PM him every post, and I don't recall sending you any, so again, what's that about?



Didn't I see a thread with him posting the lyrics to "Memories" and posting my picture about a month ago? I know for a fact I did.

Obviously, Mike DOES now see that I wasn't just being paranoid, as that e-mail didn't magically get sent to an e-mail box that I don't list as a contact. Mike's smart enough to see that there must have been validity to what I was saying.