Thanks, c-money.

I often wonder what this world would be like if we had no religion. Interesting thought. I think I'd venture to say it'd be a scary place.
However, I do wish people wouldn't put so much into it. (If that is even possible.)

Tim

Hehe bush won! Sad part is we got 4 more years of Michael Moore...

Then you have to respect the fact that not everyone thinks like you do. I, for instance, consider hate-crime laws, Affirmative Action and late-term abortions all to be immoral, each for a different reason, that has nothing to do with being a Bible-thumper or anything like that.

How a person arrives at their opinion is not really anybody's business. The things that you previously mentioned (except for abortion, but not for me anyway) have nothing to do with the Bible.

I could also bring up the fact that many people who voted for Kerry voted for him out of fear of the draft looming if Bush is elected. That fear is absolutely unfounded, but was spread by the Democrats to attract the youth vote. President Bush was also smeared with lies about the supposed ban on stem-cell research and the supposed cuts to Social Security, none of which is true.

Just as much as I am perplexed as to how human beings feel that it is appropriate to pass the responsibility for financing their activism on to me. Yes, I am talking about liberals here, who want to tax me more for the "common good". Well, I don't want to be a slave to that.

It goes both ways, Timmy, and you have to learn to recognize that. Otherwise, you're doomed to be marginalized just like the rest of the so-called progressives who, in my opinion, cost the Democratic Party its identity.

Yup, I heard about this during school. It's pretty sad that John Kerry lost. He did the admirable thing, though. I guess there was like a 1% chance, and he realized that there was no need for courts and recounts, and I respect him even more for that. If Bush was in that situation, I know this fight about the voting would have gone on until December. Bush would not have let that go and done the admirable thing. I think Bush will continue to bring this country further down the hill, and this will be a long 4 years. But, Americans chose who they wanted. Do I think they're stupid? No way. I hate their decision, but it's their choice. If they want America to get worse, by all means vote for Bush. And that's what they did, so I can't complain.

Go America!

Agreed

George Bush is "against gay marriages, gay adoption, abortion", etc.
You vote for George Bush.
You are also voting against these things.
When he is the leader (CEO) of your country, voting for him is a gigantic vote for what he stands for.

I'm generalizing, obviously, because I do not know every single voter in America. That is commonly known and referred to. However, I do think I know the majority. There are many stereotypes about Republicans that are generally true. (And I'm not going to keep saying "generally" because that is naturally understood, as I just stated.)

I already said, I'm not going to go PC and say that "we agree to disagree". No! I don't pull that crap. I do not see anything wrong with thinking people who vote for Bush are stupid. I have no problem with people who think people who vote for Kerry (or anyone else!) are stupid! It's all about the reasons why you think so. People get so caught up trying to be "gracious". Be real! We need realism! I am 100% fine with people having different opinions from me, and I have no problem with us saying that we think eachother is narrow-minded. It is all moot points once you start arguing specifics, which is the meat of what matters.

Tim

How do you know it's gonna get worse zing? You have some sort of future ball or something?

Bush is a republican. He's too stupid to do anything good.

Geez, learn some logic!

I agree, Krem. Thank you. And, despite my anger (which is very apparent), I do recognize that there are many parties at the table.

Due to my human nature, I'm already doomed to be (and have been already) marginalized in American politics.

Tim

This thread is funny.

I like it.

That's quite alright. I just took offense to your rhetoric about "narrow-mindness".

Just a note on the gay issue, as it is obviously the one that I can relate to the most...

I cannot imagine the pain that gay people in America are feeling right now. With so many votes on the ballot for banning gay marriages and even unions in some places, and to top it off, a president and party voting against anything pro-gay rights, I would feel like upwards of at least half of my country is voting against me, personally.

It's comparable to any segregation, and, that I call the most extreme case of narrow-mindedness ever. Have we not been through segregation issues before?! Don't people see yet?! What is it going to take? But, I digress.

No one is a second class citizen.

Wow. Is about all I can say.

Tim

Yay. Those fruitpacking liberals keep on putting insults to conservatives is quite annoying. :wink:

I have faith you will reform your ways lol

You're gonna owe me that dinner!

Tim

Canada!!!

Tim

The pain is enormous.

I have a gay uncle who has been with his partner for thirty years. I speak to him on a nearly daily basis. He is the nicest person I know, and he and his partner are the best couple i've ever seen together. I can't bring the strength in myself to call him today. I feel like i've failed him, espically here in Oregon where his marriage is now void. I know how you feel, Tim.

w00t canada! I want hockey back

Krem, I really like you - you know that. I think you are a brilliant guy, in many respects (especially the penchant for strong alcohol). If I knew you believed in everything that Bush believes in, this would be a different story.

Tim

Rod, I don't even know what to tell you! Hang in there! Hopefully it will get better. You deserve much better.

Tim

Thanks for the kind words, and that kinda brings me to my point. It is true, Republicans were guilty of gay-baiting in this election. I made a post about that 10 pages earlier or so. But, not all Republicans vote Bush because of that.

On the whole, I find Bush's policies to do more good to promote the cause of freedom than Kerry's policies would. And in the end, I hope, Bush's victory will mean a better place to live for everyone, not just straights.

BTW, Bush personally said that he supports "civil unions" for gays. Take it for it's worth.

On a more serious non one-sentence reply note,

While gay issues is something I'm obviously gonna relate to more, I don't by any means consider it more important thant other social and even non social issues.

If I agreed with George Bush on the majority of his views, and gay marriage was one of those exceptions I'd still support him.

It is stupid, ignorant and hypocritical to say, well I'm gay and I'm human and I deserve just as many rights as every other human being, and if it means getting things my way, then we might just jhave to let other groups of people not be as equal.

So again I'm too shocked too really put any thoughts together lol. And too bitter so I want to keep myself from saying something stupid

I'm just saying if you really want equality you can't go asking for equality for yourself but leaving out other equally underrepresented groups.

Bush isn't doing that and he isn't doing much right IMO, and I don't understand where he gets his support.

If you're worried about safety...why are states like Alabama who probably are in no danger of attacks vote for Bush because they think he can handle that better, but states who might be in danger, or have been victims of attacks in the past like NY, California, Hawaii, Pennsylvania, D.C. all vote for Kerry.

WEll I'm dissapointed, but I'll post more when I get my thoughts together.

Well at least you're not condescending in asking that question, like some poster from an ultra-left website I referenced earlier in this thread.

The answer lies in demographics. NY, California, PA, DC all lean Democratic, there's no other way around it. But if you look at the poll results, the election in all those states (and other blue states as well) was much closer than it was in 2000.

Yup! Putting that gay-rights legislation on the votes was an evil move.



HA! Yes, I heard this last night. But, apparently this was just in the recent run-up to the election? So, I'll believe it when I see it!



I hope so too, Krem. That is a great statement. That is the ultimate goal of this whole process. I'm going to leave it at that.

I am gonna drop dead in a second. I was watching the election on CNN (excellent, excellent, excellent coverage - I learnt an immense amount and found it extremely interesting) from 7pm till 4:30am straight, and then I got up at 8am, so I'm a little exhausted.

Tim

Well, I'm glad that Bush is getting another four years. That doesn't mean I support a ban on gay marriage, either. In fact, I voted against that issue in Ohio, but it passed anyway. There are many reasons I voted the way I did, that go along with my beliefs. It looks like 59 million people thought the same way.