b/c we're smart and not fooled by five minutes of good action :wink:

Actually, on my second viewing I was getting more bored during the action than during the dramatic parts.

To each his or her own, I suppose.

Im a huge Star Wars fan, and i LOVED this film. Definate A.

I agreed, on the whole the film has dropped down to a D for me, the firsty biewing the fun bits allowed me to voerlok the fact that hte prequels never showed us how Anakin became Vader, that still all happens off screen, but on a second viewing, meh, this was disappoint..the prequels never should have been made.

So let me see if I got this straight: You just went from giving SITH an "A" down to a fucking "D" and all in a 2nd viewing??? You've got ot be kidding me??

Yeah ... that's a little not right.

Well, I haev seen it three times and it just gets better every time.

I gave it a B/B- intially, now I have dropped it down to a D, and no I am not kidding. The first time the parts that I liked allowed me overlook all the stuff I disliked, but the second time around alot of htat stuff wasn't good. In the end there is more I dislike about this film then like, and I would rank it below all the OT movies. It is at least fun in a way the other two prequels weren't, but the prequles failed to show how the little boy we met in TPM grows up to be the Vader we see in the OT.

So the prequels constantly showing him in pain and being afraid to lose people he loves and always wanting more power doesn't explain how he became Vader???

No, b/c at the end of ROTS is the Vader we see in the OT, no he isn't..he;s broken and lost over Padme, but he's not the ruthless, power hungry man we see in OT. WOuld the Vader we seein OT, be "my alliance is to the republic, and together we can bring peace"? I think not. Alot of his turn to the dark side is till not there. ANakin intentions for turning to the dark side are so pure, its as if he's doesn;t actually turn evil, he just is bad for alittle while. The rpequels failed to convince me of the love between Padme and Anakin and they failed to show me how Anakin became vader, or why Anakin was even important to the Emperior. The Emperor did not need vader to kill the jedi, he had clones to do that , so much of just makes me shrug my shoulders. There are alot of great things touched on in the prequels, but they all seemed abandoned to me. Its unfortunate, but I won;t be watching any of the prequels again. I'll just stick to the OT, yes it has cheesy dialogue, but it has heart, story, and its well thoughotu and enjoyable (well Jedi is half enjoyable for the rescue of Han, the rest is very meh).

For every great scene in ROTS, Anakin storming the temple, that scene is awesome each and everytime, other scnes get worse adn wrose each time, like Windu attacking the Emperor.

I wanted this move to be good, I told myself it would be good, and the first time I lef tthe theater I deluded myself into thinking it was, just like I wanted The Phantom menace to be good, but in the end these movies were unimpressive to me.

If other people like them, then you'll enjoy, the prequels get a big fat D from me.

You are a girl.

You can't possibly understand!

BACK IN THE KITCHEN.

No, but seriously, I disagree with you on the story aspects.

Ulitmately i think Lucas wasted two movies, and then in the thrid film had to rush through the bulk of Anakin;s story, and it shows, because its only half done.

Nothing really happens in TPM and AOTC, those could both easily be combined into one movie, or half a damn movie. But at the end of ROTS, Anakin is along way from the Vader we see on the OT. There are some excellent ideas, 9such as having Ankin turn b/c he wanted to save Padme), but the execution of these ideas is just not done well. To much time was spent on stupid things. Padme whole i hav enothing to live for, how about your two children? The prequles had three villians in addition to the Emperor and Vader, what was the point of Darth maul, COunt Doku and General Greivous? Did we really need all three when the prequles ar eabout the maings of one of hte bset villians and ulitamte tragic heroes in film history?

When I watched the OT, I saw a vader who was ruthless and poewr hungry and responsible for hte death of jedi, he hunted down and killed them. He was important to the story. What the seuqles presented was a Vader who wasn't really needed for the defeat of the jedi (one of two jedi surving and heading back to the temple and Anakin killing them would have gone along way to making the death of jedi less weak(, and who showed signs of being in search of power, but at the end, the lsat words we hear form him are about Padme...how does he go from screaming oer Pdame to telling Luke that they can overtake the Emperor?

Alot of Anakin's turn to the dark side is not on the screen, we see Anakin kill the Sepraist, big deal, can anyone name the separaists?

ROTS was a good start, but it just doesn't do it. I find that i fill in to much of Ankins turn to the dark side with my own knowledge of the OT.

And before anone suggests I am some OT purist, I don;t think the OT has no faults, Jedi is really a mess of a film, and I wasn't that big into SW as a kid. My family was not into sci-fi, I vaugley remembering seeing them as a kid, but I can honestly count on one hand th enumber of times I have seen the OT. Those films, even with their faults still effectively told a story, these films spend to uch time making stupid connections to the OT, and not enough time developping the story they are supposed to tell, Anakin's story, and making useful and interesting connections to the OT. The prequles have a disadvantage in that the ulitmate ending is already known so it is much harder to make, still though:

Prequels :down:

Some good elements do not a good movie make, no matter how much i wish these could recraete the OT for me, they don;t. I spent alot of item hearing abou twhat it waslike when ESB came out, but I was to young to be invovled, these prequles just don;t do it for me.

Disagree. From a story perspective (Acting or chemistry I'm not going to defend).


I think more plot happens in either of these two movies than Sith. Especially politically. This is one of the reasons why AOTC doesn't work for me, it's too complex for its own good.


Why should you expect Vader to be the same person he is at the end of Revenge of the Sith as he is NINETEEN years later as Darth Vader? The Vader at the end of Sith, to me, looks like he could easily become the Vader of New Hope. You are right, they are not the same... but after 20 years of bitterness and lost hope... ?

There is a link between the two which is, IMO a logical progression in Anakin. Especially with the "Once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will" speech from Empire.

There is nothing said of those 19 years. It could take a long time for Anakin to become the right bastard that he ends up being, years of training under a dark lord, bitterness over his disfiguration, his killing of Padme, the "loss of his children", ongoing aggression politically, etc.


They were all collateral, and it sets up the Emperor's feeling towards the disposability of his underlings and gives Anakin his needed push towards killing the Emperor in Empire and Jedi. The Emperor is not evil because he does shitty things, like starting wars, the Emperor is evil because he is self-centered and doesn't care about anyone or the committments he supposedly makes. This is what ultimately he cannot breed COMPLETELY out of Vader.

Maul, Dooku (especially), Grievous, Clones, Nemodians, yeah they are action set pieces, but they all go towards setting up the cool detatchment that he views the galaxy with.


The story is not about "a villian" the story is about a complicated boy who turns INTO a villian, so obviously you are going to have to set up a villian to take place of the ACTUAL villian until its time to reveal them.

Fans would have liked nothing more than for this one to have been Episode II and for Vader killing the galaxy to have been Episode III, that episode would serve no purpose.


To me: it sounds like you are just reacting against your initial grade. *shrug*. I was disappointed the first time I saw Sith, but the story is incredibly solid. And it sucks you can't see that, or that you are doing so much to discredit it at the moment for some personal reason.

That's what it's looking like right now.

I think more plot happens in either of these two movies than Sith. Especially politically. This is one of the reasons why AOTC doesn't work for me, it's too complex for its own good.[/quote]

Alot of the litle thigns that happen in theose films just don;t hold up well in repeat viewinigs, they are boring, like the pod race, or jsut stuopid, R2D2 rescueing Anakin and Padme at the end.

Alot of the polictical stuff is interesitng, as the Emperor is a compelling chracer in the prequels, but the rest of it not so much, and so the movie fails to hold my attention.



I don;t want him to be exaclty the same, but he still appears to be along way of from it. When I saw the movie a seocnd time with some friendswho have seen all the films, but none of them more then once, one of them asked "Why dos he even stay with the meperor now that Padme is dead?" It is a valid question, what is his motivation. n that note, Vader says, that it is not possible for him to ahve killed PAdme,he sensed she was alive, and he is right about that. I would jsut thinkhe want to see her body, ro do soemthing, he screams about it and then its jsut over.



Which makes Anakin's trnasformation in the end so good, but I didn;t feel like he had really embraced the dark side.



The audince filling in alot of blanks, I am just saying less pod race scenes and such in the prequels, more hints of this would have been nice.



Why not have one villian and carry him throughout the prequels, I found Grevious a very cool idea, why not saw Windu disfiguring him in the movies, and have him as the apprentice. Instead I found three disposable and by large uninteresting villians who I know nothign about. The only reason I know anything about Grevious is from what other poster said about the Clone Wars cartoons.



Dooku at least had set up the Clone Army, but I think Maul was just a dull and useless character.



You have the emperor, and I am ok with some villians, but they shoudl at least be interesting, and Darth Maul wasn't though his oightsber fight was good, Dooku really isn;t either, though Anakin kiling him is one of the best scenes in Sith...these vilians are only interesting when the die. That is one big difference b/w the OT and PT, in the OT Vader is an intersting character with an arc who grows, not just a guy there to die in a cool lightsaber death.



I didn;t need ot see vader kill the univesrse, but we're told he hunts down and kills jedi, showign him kill one not child jedi is not asking all that much. My problem with the death of the jedi is that its implie din the OT that Vader is strong enough to go out nad kill the jedi, when apparently all the emperor needed was some clones.



BUt we know that he could kill Tarkin in a second if he wanted, sure there ar emoemnt slike to remind us Vade ris not in charge, but there is also the side of him that asks Luke to help him overthrough the Emperor. He is ever the apprentice wanting to be the master, I did think the prequels did a good job of establishing Anakin as someone who always wanted power, getting mad over thelack of a master rank when he should have been thrilled to even be on the council.



My point is, why is the Emperpr so interested in Vader as an apprentice, why are why spending thre emovies in seeing him turn from a young boy to the sith apprentice, to watch him slaughter yougnlings and the sepratists leaders who were not oging anywhere. The Emperpr takes his best warrior and send shim to kill children and people loyal to him, that just struck me as odd.



The only perosn he thinks didn;t betray him was the Emperor, but he right awya questiosn the Emperor idea that he killed Padme, and then in the next scene he is sitting there looking at palns for a death star that apaprently takes 20 years to build. I think alot of my problems come more from the writing of padme's character in this case, I never really bought her relationship with Anakin, her having nothing to live for...it just took alot of sting out of the end of the film.



The OT covers a much shorter span of time then the PT, so the brush strokes are bigger, and some times board strokes work and sometimes they don;t, here for me they don't work.



No idea who the first two are, and the third one dosn;t count, its not in the scene I was referring to...who cares, if Anakin kils a bunch of guys he was fighting agisnt anyway, seeing him storm the temple was far more interesting and effective, it show shim turning his back on people who know and trust him.



For the same reasons all movies are made, to make money. We can go on about artistic stuff, but movie making is a business.



Its great that you think its solid, but I happen to hate the "sucks that you cannot see that argument," since it implies I am so incapable of seeing the movie that is there, when this movie liek all movies works for some and fails for others. I think the prequels are bad, I don;t expect everyone to agree, but I wouldn;t say to someone else, Sith is a shit movie, why can;t you see that. If they ask what I thought, then I'll say I thought it was bad.

I only mentioned my changed grade b/c someone keeps asking who gave the movie an F, as if these people didn;t see the movie and actually give it an F...well maybe they did, its not out of the realm of possiblity for someone to dislike the movie. Why woudl these peopel say they gave it an F, jsut to be attacked for not getting that movie is solid.

While ther are some great sequences, those were ultimately not enough to undo the rest of it for me. Once the joy of seeing the Anakin and Obi-Wan fight was over, and enjoying the storming of the temple, and a few other thigns, the rest of it just fell flat and put me to sleep.

So does that mean that you won't be purchasing the DVD when it releases Cynthia? I only ask because you said that you also did not care for LOTR (with the exception of FOTR), yet you still own both versions of each film.

After my 57th viewing of Revenge of the Sith, I am now fairly confident that this movie sucks!

I give it 1 and a half lightsabers out of 43 lightsabers.

Well, I watched it again. It's still a good movie. Niothing excellent.

Cynthia, I think the transition between Anakin and Vader was perfect. And from young Vader to old Vader. The Emperor was all he had. He had betrayed his friends and lost his wife. You can see his sorrow in a way once Windu was killed by Palpatene. The way his looks down in sadness, but then pledges himself to the emperor. It's all he's got. I don't think Vader's emotions every went anywhere between the prequels and the OT. He is the same upset, angry person he was once he lost Padme. It fits perfectly to me.

now that was funny :laugh:

now that was funny :laugh:

Where is the member named StarWars? He doesn't post anymore, he's probably too busy watching EPISODE III every day :wink:

I agree with just about everything Ripper has said, aside from the fact that he liked it the first time.
I saw it at a midnight showing because my friends wanted to go, and what a waste of time.
There are far too many plot holes for my tastes, and i pay attention to things like dialog, acting, story, etc so if you take those things into consideration then Ep3 was a bad movie. Plain and simple.
One thing that i can't seem to shove off is Padme's magical pregnancy that lasts about 3 minutes. She tells him she is pregnant, then she apparently 9 months (or at least 8) manage to pass somehow despite the fact that 8 or 9 months don't actually pass. That is a rather large thing to overlook.
Another thing is how Obi-wan manages to go from looking like Ewan in Ep3, to Alec Guinness(sp?) in Ep4, despite only 19yrs passing. That is a lot more than 19yrs aging. Lucas seems to not care, or not notice, about how time passes, how people age, etc.
The fact that Ep3 has managed an 83% at RT is baffling, though a popular "positive" review seems to be "it was better than the previous 2", but that sure as hell doesn't mean good.

When you have a puzzling question you can't answer, there are two answers!

Either 1) Its in a galaxy far far a way and a long time ago, maybe things work differently

OR

2) Its the force!

I think that the film is great, I did like it much better than the first two, but I think that repeat viewings are needed before I can say that it is the best. The WOM is very positive for it though.

She was already 6-7 months preganant, just not showing in her fancy gowns, then had the baby prematurely due to strangulation...




That's easy - Ewan McGregor isn't Alec Guinness! First off, Lucas was lucky to get two such great actors, period. But I for one, could believe that Obi-Ewan was around 40 by the end of Episode III and Obi-Alec was around 60 at the beginning of Episode IV. (The actors actual ages when the films were released were 35 and 62 respectively.)

But I think the key point for you to take away from these little questions of yours, is that if you're having this much trouble with suspension of disbelief, especially with a space fantasy, I would highly recommend you stick to documentaries...

:wink:

How do you know that Padme was 6-7 months pregnant when she told Anakin? They never said any such thing in the movie, and that isn't exactly something that one would assume.
Well i for one can't believe that Obi-wan was 40 in Ep3, he was in his mid thirties, which would put him in his mid fifties in Ep4. That would also make him a very bad looking mid-fifty year old. I guess that it just evens out that way, as Obi-wan didn't age any more than 3yrs between Ep1 and Ep2 despite the fact that he was supposed to have aged 10yrs. Then the fact that Anakin obviously ages a lot between Ep1 and Ep2 while Padme doesn't appear to age a day. It appears that Lucas has some problems with keeping track of people's aging in general.
The biggest problem i have with Ep3 is that there are so many problems. A movie that needs so much explanation to fill in the tons of holes is obviously deeply flawed and therefore NOT A GOOD MOVIE, but this gets pretty good WOM as people say that "it wasn't as bad as the first 2" which other genius people mistake for good WOM.
Just because one movie is less crappy as 2 other ones, it isn't good by default.
What makes you think that i am documentary fan? The fact that i like my movies to make a little sense? I know, that is a lot to ask for (especially from Lucas)
I also have no problem with suspension of disbelief, just about every movie requires it a little. I have a problem with when a movie depends so heavily on SOD that it falls apart when you examine it even the slightest bit, like in Ep3.