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BJ
Killing With Kindness
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:57 pm Posts: 25020 Location: Anchorage,Alaska
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National Defense Authorization Act
http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_19413004Quote: Section 1031, would let the military lock up both Americans and noncitizens in the 50 states. There would be no charges, no trial, no proof beyond a reasonable doubt. All that would be required would be suspicion.
Thoughts?
_________________The Force Awakens
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Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:01 pm |
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resident
Wall-E
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:25 pm Posts: 855
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Does anyone remember the movie with John Agar, "The Brain From Planet Arous"? I think Joe McCarthy, Richard Daley, Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon ain't dead. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050210/plotsummaryEDIT: John McCain co-authored this P.o.S. Must have been watching his P.O.W. movies again...
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Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:08 pm |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm Posts: 4767
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
I read that this was actually requested by the Obama Administration. My thought is that it is abominable. If captured outside the United States and on a battlefield, fine, lock them away without any habeas corpus rights for the remainder of hostilities and preferably in some secret prison in a friendly dictators country.
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Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:20 pm |
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Tyler
Powered By Hate
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:55 pm Posts: 7578 Location: Torrington, CT
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Horrible.
_________________ It's my lucky crack pipe.
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:46 am |
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Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11075 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Caius wrote: I read that this was actually requested by the Obama Administration. My thought is that it is abominable. If captured outside the United States and on a battlefield, fine, lock them away without any habeas corpus rights for the remainder of hostilities and preferably in some secret prison in a friendly dictators country. Except Obama plans to veto the bill: http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... ns-of-veto
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:26 pm |
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Jedi Master Carr
Extraordinary
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 pm Posts: 11637
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Darth Indiana Bond wrote: Caius wrote: I read that this was actually requested by the Obama Administration. My thought is that it is abominable. If captured outside the United States and on a battlefield, fine, lock them away without any habeas corpus rights for the remainder of hostilities and preferably in some secret prison in a friendly dictators country. Except Obama plans to veto the bill: http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... ns-of-vetoYeah I was going to say that too. I thought he was against this bill.
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:52 pm |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm Posts: 4767
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Jedi Master Carr wrote: Darth Indiana Bond wrote: Caius wrote: I read that this was actually requested by the Obama Administration. My thought is that it is abominable. If captured outside the United States and on a battlefield, fine, lock them away without any habeas corpus rights for the remainder of hostilities and preferably in some secret prison in a friendly dictators country. Except Obama plans to veto the bill: http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... ns-of-vetoYeah I was going to say that too. I thought he was against this bill. What relevance is that to my statement? My understanding is the Administration's veto threat concerned Guantanamo type issues. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/SenateSession4951Go to the 4:43 mark and you can hear Democratic Senator Carl Levin on the floor of the Senate say just what I said. That the Obama administration pushed for the removal of the language which would have exempted U.S. Citizens from such indefinite detention.
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Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:46 am |
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nghtvsn
Extraordinary
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:13 pm Posts: 11015 Location: Warren Theatre Oklahoma
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
BJ wrote: http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_19413004 Quote: Section 1031, would let the military lock up both Americans and noncitizens in the 50 states. There would be no charges, no trial, no proof beyond a reasonable doubt. All that would be required would be suspicion.
Thoughts? Well... We have to defeat the terrorists you know. This is the only way we can do it. This is the only way we can win.
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Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:02 pm |
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trixster
loyalfromlondon
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:31 pm Posts: 19697 Location: ville-marie
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Throwing away habeas corpus and locking up American citizens without charges, trial, or proof is not how you win. It's how the terrorists win.
_________________Magic Mike wrote: zwackerm wrote: If John Wick 2 even makes 30 million I will eat 1,000 shoes. Same. Algren wrote: I don't think. I predict.
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Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:30 pm |
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Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11075 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Caius wrote: Jedi Master Carr wrote: Darth Indiana Bond wrote: Caius wrote: I read that this was actually requested by the Obama Administration. My thought is that it is abominable. If captured outside the United States and on a battlefield, fine, lock them away without any habeas corpus rights for the remainder of hostilities and preferably in some secret prison in a friendly dictators country. Except Obama plans to veto the bill: http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... ns-of-vetoYeah I was going to say that too. I thought he was against this bill. What relevance is that to my statement? My understanding is the Administration's veto threat concerned Guantanamo type issues. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/SenateSession4951Go to the 4:43 mark and you can hear Democratic Senator Carl Levin on the floor of the Senate say just what I said. That the Obama administration pushed for the removal of the language which would have exempted U.S. Citizens from such indefinite detention. What the hell are you talking about? I think that's what you want him to say more than what he actually stated. It would seem as though the president does have some desire to get something like this passed, but the senators drones on about how the bill is not developed enough, and later on states how the bill as it is could override 200 years of legal work, and how the bill as it currently exists could have horrible side effects.
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Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:10 pm |
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Mannyisthebest
Forum General
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 3:53 pm Posts: 8636 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Frankly the govt has been able to able to lock up people and hold them for a long time anyways (look at what happened after 9/11) and can simply suspend habeas corpus in a time of war.
Also, Obama could veto it but he will use drones to kill any threat (own citizen) it appears and imo I think there is nothing wrong with that.
_________________The Dark Prince
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Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:41 am |
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Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11075 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Darth Indiana Bond wrote: Caius wrote: Jedi Master Carr wrote: Darth Indiana Bond wrote: Caius wrote: I read that this was actually requested by the Obama Administration. My thought is that it is abominable. If captured outside the United States and on a battlefield, fine, lock them away without any habeas corpus rights for the remainder of hostilities and preferably in some secret prison in a friendly dictators country. Except Obama plans to veto the bill: http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... ns-of-vetoYeah I was going to say that too. I thought he was against this bill. What relevance is that to my statement? My understanding is the Administration's veto threat concerned Guantanamo type issues. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/SenateSession4951Go to the 4:43 mark and you can hear Democratic Senator Carl Levin on the floor of the Senate say just what I said. That the Obama administration pushed for the removal of the language which would have exempted U.S. Citizens from such indefinite detention. What the hell are you talking about? I think that's what you want him to say more than what he actually stated. It would seem as though the president does have some desire to get something like this passed, but the senators drones on about how the bill is not developed enough, and later on states how the bill as it is could override 200 years of legal work, and how the bill as it currently exists could have horrible side effects. Okay, so I've gone back and re-listened to the clip you provided. I apologize for saying things a little too hastedly, and now I see your point. My counter still stands that the senator from Colorado does state that the president wants to review the stated amendment, and that's his desire to pull the amendment out.
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:15 am |
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Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11075 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
In fact, when John McCain takes the floor, he gets pretty passionate about his frustration with Obama having an issue with the whole situation concerning the bill stripping away Miranda Rights
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:19 am |
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BJ
Killing With Kindness
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:57 pm Posts: 25020 Location: Anchorage,Alaska
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Mannyisthebest wrote: Frankly the govt has been able to able to lock up people and hold them for a long time anyways (look at what happened after 9/11) and can simply suspend habeas corpus in a time of war.
Also, Obama could veto it but he will use drones to kill any threat (own citizen) it appears and imo I think there is nothing wrong with that. I prefer they would not be able to do it easily.
_________________The Force Awakens
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:22 am |
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BJ
Killing With Kindness
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:57 pm Posts: 25020 Location: Anchorage,Alaska
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Darth Indiana Bond wrote: In fact, when John McCain takes the floor, he gets pretty passionate about his frustration with Obama having an issue with the whole situation concerning the bill stripping away Miranda Rights How does Mcshame still have any influence.
_________________The Force Awakens
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:22 am |
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Mannyisthebest
Forum General
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 3:53 pm Posts: 8636 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
John McCain is a very well known guy and is a senior senator...
His influence has waned but it is still high.
_________________The Dark Prince
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:31 am |
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resident
Wall-E
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:25 pm Posts: 855
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
And what is the point of this legislation but to overthrow Due Process and deny a fair hearing? The government already has the power to hold dangerous suspects without bail. A defense attorney isn't going to be able to contradict reasonable evidence. Even O.J. was in jail for a year before his case went to trial and he wasn't even a terrorist.
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:34 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
As Jon Stewart pointed out last night, it is sufficient evidence for detaining a US citizen indefinitely without charges or trial under this new law, if you are found with more than a seven day supply of food in your house. Of course, this is only another nail in the coffin - - American freedom died quite some time ago.
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:51 am |
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Jedi Master Carr
Extraordinary
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 pm Posts: 11637
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Re: National Defense Authorization Act
Caius wrote: Jedi Master Carr wrote: Darth Indiana Bond wrote: Caius wrote: I read that this was actually requested by the Obama Administration. My thought is that it is abominable. If captured outside the United States and on a battlefield, fine, lock them away without any habeas corpus rights for the remainder of hostilities and preferably in some secret prison in a friendly dictators country. Except Obama plans to veto the bill: http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... ns-of-vetoYeah I was going to say that too. I thought he was against this bill. What relevance is that to my statement? My understanding is the Administration's veto threat concerned Guantanamo type issues. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/SenateSession4951Go to the 4:43 mark and you can hear Democratic Senator Carl Levin on the floor of the Senate say just what I said. That the Obama administration pushed for the removal of the language which would have exempted U.S. Citizens from such indefinite detention. Well I heard something different on CNN. They said Obama was threatening a veto over that part of the bill.
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:04 pm |
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