Sad to see Bruce go out like that, it's only the second time in the show's history someone was removed from the game for medical reasons. It was a damn entertaining episode this week though, what with the reward challenge outbursts, Shane & Courtney alone at camp, Cirie winning something, Terry hardly being shown at all, and a lot more insight into the tribal dynamics as far as alliances go. Next week's vote should be quite interesting, Bruce was a clear outsider but at this point you have Aras/Shane together along with Danielle/Courtney and Cirie floating in between the two. And what will that wild card Terry do??

As far as spoilers go this is what I know -

[spoil] Courtney goes out next, probably courtesy of Cirie sticking with Aras/Shane over her & Danielle.

Shane follows her in 5th place. He's supposedly blindsided. There is also a reward challenge where the winner gets to see a family member, Terry supposedly wins this and brings Cirie & Shane. Danielle is sent to Exile Island, not happy about it at all.

Cirie is 4th, she is rumored to be part of a tied vote with Danielle. The tiebreaker vote is broken by a "who can build the fire the fastest" as seen in Palau (Steph vs. Bobby Jon). The only thing I don't understand is why would Terry vote out Cirie?? She's the ideal person to go up against in the last immunity challenge, and considering what happens between him Danielle the week before an alliance there seems unlikely. Unless Aras ends up voting for her, but to me it seems as though Aras is closer to Cirie than he is to Danielle. Perhaps Cirie/Aras are too obviously aligned, leading Danielle/Terry to form an alliance of necessity?

Terry's probably 3rd, though it could be Aras. They were rumored to be the final two until the betting spoiler came along.

Danielle vs. Aras in the final two. Betting spoiler suggests that Danielle wins (these things are hardly ever wrong). Cirie will obviously vote for Aras, probably Shane too and Danielle should get votes from Courtney (of course), Austin (bonding on Exile Island), and Bruce (they were close on the island, editing hided this). Terry & Sally's votes I'm not sure of but I think Sally will go for Danielle and Terry for Aras. [/spoil]

[spoil]Yeah, something must happen for Danielle to get a tie like that. If Terry voted with her just out of spite, it'd be quite retarded. And why would they vote out Cirie instead of Aras? If all this is true, Terry has got to be one of the dumbest players in Survivor history. But seeing how he's played so far this season, it wouldn't surprise me.

Another thing I don't get is what happens in the final 3. If Aras wins the challenge, he doesn't bring Terry? That'd be an even worse decision, as it'd be a guaranteed win just from all the Casaya members on the jury. Same thing if Danielle wins it, why bring popular Aras to the final when against dick Terry you have the million in your pocket? Odd.[/spoil]

Although I really don't like him, Aras pretty much deserves to win this season. He seems to be the only one who has any type of strategical gameplay going on (aside from Cirie) and has made himself the "leader" of the Casaya without having a major target on his back. Although I would like Terry to win it all, Aras is the one who probably should win for his gameplay.

Ok so does anyone still think after this episode that Cirie is a wallflower with little to no strategic game in her? That was seriously one of the best moves I've ever seen in Survivor, complete manipulation of the entire tribe. Every single person thought Cirie was on their side tonight! I knew the girl had some major game in her since the first episode, and tonight proved it.

And yet again Terry proves that he sucks sucks sucks sucks sucks sucks at the strategic part of this game. And at catching fish.

That was a good episode of Survivor with lots of scheming and plotting. That immunity challenge had Terry's name written all over it, it would have been shocking had Terry not won. With the immunity idol Terry is guaranteed at least final four.I was surprised by how pathetic Shane was in a strength challenge he was first out and was beaten even by Cirie.

OK, Cirie is my hero. That was a totally awesome turnaround. I really, really, really hope she wins, she's my only hope.

I guess Courtney can retire off to the land of leprechauns and mary jane or something.

I love how Shane was the only one who voted for Danielle. Loser.

Terry and Cirie are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Terry is a monster physically and Cirie is the strategist. Seeing that both are in the top 5, I'd be hard pressed to call either of them "sucky" players. If you can make it that far, you've done something right.

The beauty of Survivor is we will know who had the best strategy in the end, and who was the stronger player by how they are voted out. If Terry outlasts Cirie in the end (especially considering the massive target on the back), then he was the better player.

Care to bet who lasts longer?

No bets for me, I don't want to end up in Reality TV Gamblers Anonymous. Again.

I disagree though that the best/stronger players are determined by who goes out when...a lot of good players have made it far only to be ousted because someone else was easier to win against. And a lot of deadweight have been dragged to the final four/five/six because they were just that, deadweight. That's all purely subjective though.

and unless Terry somehow wins the game I will always consider him a sucky player because he relied almost 100% on his physical strength to take him to the end of the game, and that will never impress me in Survivor. I don't think you should have to win immunity over and over and over again to stay in the game, you should have your ass covered either way.

uhh so in essence what I'm saying is that even if Terry lasts longer than Cirie she will always be the better player in my eyes.

To me a perfect player would have a great balance of brute force and strategy, and neither Terry or Cirie display both of those skills. I like Terry's strategy better, you like Cirie's... the only thing that will settle which one is better is who makes it further, even though you don't want to admit that.

Also, I don't even think that Cirie is that good of a strategist. Unless they edited something out I don't see where she is really tight with any other remaining contestant. Going into a final 5 you really need to have that 1 or 2 people that your tight with. I think her pick to take out Courtney was a bad move as she should have been trying to make a tight alliance with her as she was kind of off on her own. Ditto for Terry. It wasn't that smart of a move for her to constantly alienate Terry, either. I don't like her chances right now, whereas Terry is guaranteed a final 4 spot (w/ the hidden immunity idol).

On the other side, I don't think Terry is as bad as a strategist as you say. I can't think of anything he could have done differently to gain favor in Casaya. Which members do you think he could have turned? That tribe was a rarity on Survivor - very tight. They had their mind made up not to be broke apart, and I don't think anybody would have torn them up. I was impressed that at the very least Terry got Danielle thinking about jumping ship... twice. His only option was to power through the challenges... which he has done.

But unlike you, I tip my hat to anybody that can make it to the final 4. While I don't like the wallflowers, that is a strategy that works. Being a gigantic ass that everyone wants to take to the final 2 is another strategy I don't like, but it often works (to get the $100,000 2nd place prize). Or being the tag along (Amber) is another strategy that works but is not necessarily likable. My point is just because you don't agree with a certain strategy doesn't make that person a sucky player. Hey, if it gets you to the final 4, it worked. If you'll notice I never called Cirie a bad player, just one that uses a strategy that I don't like (mostly in the background, can't win a challenge to save their life).

Alright, I think it's time to pull out my patented debate closer (making its debut in the TV forum!):

Game... Set... Match... TonyMontana

Did you not see Aras? Aras basically did whatevr the heck Cirie wanted.

Not to mention Danielle went with Cirie and Aras over Courtney and Terry for a reason.

No question she was pulling the strings last night, and did a good job at turning Danielle back away from Terry. I just think she turned her the wrong way. I would have stuck with the 3 girl alliance and picked the guys off one by one. I get the feeling that Danielle is stronger with Aras than she is with Cirie, and it would have been wiser to get rid of Aras last night... Cirie would have basically forced Danielle into a strong alliance with her that way.

Disagree, Danielle was good and ready to vote out Aras until she realized going with Cirie/Aras would be a better option.

Did you not see my "Game... Set... Match" line? I thought that settled everything.

Anyhow, why is it a better option? I'm not seeing how any of these 5 have any strong bonds. It's like they didn't even plan for this stage of the game. Usually you get 2 or 3 people plotting an alliance at this point, but everybody appears to be marching to their own drummer off in left field (especially Shane). Sure Cirie can pull some strings, but she doesn't appear to have any close ties with anyone. That's why I thought it would be smart to shore up a 3 person alliance with the girls - especially since Courtney is weaker than Aras and less likable.

But I think Cirie is screwed either way... she can't win the final immunity and nobody would take her to the final two.

Brute strength in a player never really factors into my opinion of who is the best out there, just as long as they're good enough to the point where they don't stick out like sore thumbs during the team immunity challenges then that's fine for me (and Cirie actually did well with these!). Other than that it is all strategy. Even if Cirie goes home next episode I will consider her the better player of heck everyone left for being able to pull off what she did last episode, it's not every episode that someone is able to manipulate the others to the degree that she did last tribal council. She may lose it in the final sprint to the finish what with Terry likely being out of reach, but that was one of the most impressive plays I've ever seen on the show.

I don't think Casaya are as out on their own as you think, the editors are just being clever to keep the suspense up. Cirie & Aras to me seem like they have a final two deal going, the problem for them will be if Danielle senses it and breaks away from them. Danielle was also tight with Bruce, which you never would have guessed from the show. This season they seem to be focusing more on the characters and hiding what's really going on behind the scenes (except for Terry's futile attempts to form a new alliance that will work this time, really it will!).

Anyway back to Cirie, Courtney had obviously hopped into Terry's backpocket after the reward challenge, plus Cirie realized that nearly EVERYONE left in the game wanted to take her to the final two. That's why she focused on getting rid of her this week because otherwise Courtney would've ended up the likely runner-up this year. I don't see how Cirie had many options with Courtney, she seemed too flighty to put a lot of trust in especially compared to Aras (who again likely has promised Cirie final two). Terry, eh if Cirie had courted something with him and it got back to the others she probably would have ended up gone last night instead of Courtney.

Now onto our hero Terry, he's in a better spot to make it further than anyone else simply because of that cursed hidden immunity idol. Casaya has seemed like a very fractured tribe from day one, and I think a couple of them were ready to bolt if offered a deal that was better than what they were stuck with in the Casaya-6. Terry never offered this...he tried to offer everyone on Casaya (except Aras) some sort of deal where it was obvious that they would be getting the short end of the stick. First it was us four and you two, then you three and us two, then you two and us two, etc. He finally played a decent hand this week by actually convincing someone to go along with a mutually beneficial deal, but what was going on was too obvious for it to work and it ended up completely backfiring. and while it's a moot point now, I thought it was a dumb move for Terry to oust Dan right before the merge since by doing so he was making himself into the odd man out and booting someone who was guaranteed to vote with him. Lucky for him the merge came sooner than later.

and nope I don't tip my hat to anyone who makes the final four, I don't think you're a good player if you get that far and you're the obvious first boot of the four, or the three, etc.. That means you made a bad deal somewhere along the line that gave the others a walk in the park victory over you, barring an immunity win. If your strategy wins you the game then you did something right. Final four isn't enough to me, and final two isn't either since so many have made it there simply because they played such a bad game that they were very easy to beat with the jury. The only way I will not consider Terry a sucky (such an eloquent word I know) player is if he wins the game or makes some sort of impressive move in the final four. Otherwise, no dice.

You won me over, haerpinot... I decided to follow your exact logic. The only way I will not consider Cirie a sucky player is if she wins the game. Otherwise, no dice. And if Terry does beat her, I am so going to laugh at you. If Cirie can't beat a sucky player like Terry that is just sad!

That is the most backhanded way ever to agree with anyone, curse you and your reverse psychology! There is no need to laugh at me though, I'm not betting the house or anything for that matter on Cirie outlasting Terry. It will not shatter my worldview if it happens, it's happened a million times in reality TV before anyway.

Oh and I don't know if everyone knows this but the hidden immunity idol can only be used up until the final four, so next week is probably its last hurrah (unless that means it can be used up to and including the final four). Should be interesting to see what Terry will do if he wins immunity again, since he'll have the chance to pass off the idol or leave it forever unused.

Okay, I'll give Cirie her props.

But I still don't like her.

I thought Shane was going to french his son for a second

Sexy.

Hmm, I don't get why Cirie/Aras keep hanging onto Danielle. Shane would have been the perfect final three goat, his reaction to the vote tonight was proof that he is very gullible and clueless, and I doubt he would have courted an alliance with Terry unlike Danielle apparently does next week (shown in the previews). I guess it might be because they think the Jury likes him (they had quite the negative reaction to him being voted out) more than Danielle but still it's odd.

I think everyone played a crap strategy game this week.

Why wouldn't have Terry dealt his immunity idol to Shane at the end? He could've made a tight alliance with somebody (like Shane). Terry should have thrown his one vote to Aras, given the immunity Idol to Shane. Aras would get kicked out and nobody would be able to stop him from winning all the immunities and he'd have Shane on his side.

I also don't get why the others got rid of Shane... he seems like the guy you'd want to take to the final 2 and he's hardly a threat physically. I thought Aras, Shane, and Cirie would have been wiser to get rid of Danielle.

Aras and Cirie got rid of Shane because Danielle was clearly more loyal to the both of them, and would be more likely to take one of them (let's hope Cirie!) to the final two with her if she won the last challenge.

They knew that Shane wasn't going to align with them anymore because he'd want to go with Terry.

Also, did anyone want to strangle Terry just a little more tonight? "There wasn't any sleeping, if you know what I mean!" "Well, my wife is more important than Danielle's mother! She's only 24! Blah blah blah blah blah" He is hideous at the social aspect of this game.

See, I think Danielle is the one who is the least reliable and the one who has talked about jumping ship far more than Shane ever has. Shane is guillable and he's one of those that would do anything if you get him to swear on his kids life... a lot more controllable. And it looks like I might be right if next weeks preview is any indication with Danielle once again thinking of jumping ship to Terry.

And, I still like Terry. While I certainly won't argue that Terry is a good strategist, he has been one of the toughest people on Survivor. Not since Coby won 50 immunity challenges in a row can I think of somebody who has done such an impressive job in that regard.

What about Tom from survivor Palau? Unlike Colby, he actually won the whole thing.

I know you have the hots for little boys who look like a young Tatum O'Neal.

I know all your secrets.