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 Tsunami Tuesday Winners 
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Beeblebrox wrote:
Keep in mind that the superdelegates can change their minds at any time. Take them out of the equation and Obama is ahead, if just barely. But I think most importantly, Obama has the mindshare and the momentum. I think Hillary has her staunch superdelegate supporters (like Bill, for example), but maybe enough of them can be persuaded to switch if, at the end of the day, Obama is ahead in pledged delegates and the superdelegates would end up putting Hillary over the top.


Most of the current pledged super-delegates have all came out and campaigned for Hillary, and are her staunch supporters. Once a super-delegate pledges, they typically don't sway from that unless another candidate has won, and they want to unify for the good of the party.

Hillary's superdelegates should be counted, and it's foolish not to.

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:00 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Eagle wrote:
Hillary's superdelegates should be counted, and it's foolish not to.


Eagle I think you have a new mantra. ;)

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:19 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Eagle wrote:
xiayun wrote:
Looking at the schedules, this Saturday looks good for Obama as he has shown to do very well in caucuses, and he could potentially sweep next Tuesday's states (DC, Maryland, and Virginia). Then he would really have the momentum, with more money in the bank. Hillary will need to win Texas and Ohio.

My prediction: Pennsylvania on April 22nd will decide it, and I expect Obama to lead the delegate race going in.


That's not good for Obama, because I don't think he can win in PA. Also, don't forget, none of the CA delegates have been counted yet.


Look like CA delegates will split pretty evenly as Obama is leading in a good portion of the counties, including San Francisco. Clinton won't win by more than 40 pledged delegates there.

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:19 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Christian wrote:
Eagle wrote:
Hillary's superdelegates should be counted, and it's foolish not to.


Eagle I think you have a new mantra. ;)



Hehe, well it is!

Anywho, xiayun, you may be right with California.

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:03 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Thoughts:

McCain will be the REP nominee 100% now because Huckabee has outshined Romney, and there's just no way for either of them to catch McCain in delegates.

Obama just cannot win in the big diverse states. He only has the black vote locked up, pretty much splits the white vote (wont be so in a general election, he'd lost it), and is behind by wide margins when it comes to Hispanics and Asians. He won more states, very impressive (if not expected), (even if half of them are meaningless delegate wise), so he'll need to spin that into the next few contests.

Clinton won the states she was aiming for by good margins, especially when you look at the polls leading into TUES (which I'm never going to take into account now in the bigger states, ESPECIALLY Zogby who were by far the most off). CA (+10), MA (+15), and NJ (+10). I wouldn't focus much time on the next few contests if I was her. I'd save more of my money, and do fundraisers. But keep a presence in those states to that she picks up a few delegates. Focus on Ohio, Texas, and PA, all three of which she has had big leads in, and a very recent Ohio poll showed her up over 20 points. PA's GOV has endoresed her, and Texas has the hispanics she needs.

Romney was the only loser. There is simply nothing good to say about last night for him.

And Go Huckabee! :yes:

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:44 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
YEah even Romney's hair is starting to look unkempt. :thumbsup:

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:12 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Delegate DEM Update (not complete), I'll post the REP ones later:

Clinton 900, Obama 824

Cali: Clinton 101, Obama 59
New York: Clinton 127, 87
Illiniois: Obama 79, Clinton 27
New Jersey: Clinton 51, Obama 37
Mass: Clinton 54, Obama 37
Georgia: Obama 45, Clinton 22
Minn: Obama 48, Clinton 24
Missouri: Clinton 30, Obama 30
Tennessee: Clinton 34, Obama 21
Colorado: Obama 13, Clinton 6
Arizona: Clinton 26, Obama 21
Conn: Obama 26, Clinton 22
Arkansas: Clinton 23, Obama 6
Oklahoma: Clinton 24, Obama 21
Kansas: Obama 23, Clinton 9
New Mexico: Clinton 13, Obama 12
Utah: Obama 14, Clinton 9
Deleware: Obama 9, Clinton 6
Idaho: Obama 15, Clinton 3
North Dakota: Obama 8, Clinton 5
Alaska: Obama 9, Clinton 4

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
I pretty much agree with Corpse in that the focus will be TX, OH, and PA down the stretch, however, Clinton may have big leads atm Obama is going to probably have a major boost next Tuesday with DC, MD and VA (this according to Oreilly due to DC being more minority, MD and VA with blacks outnumbering hispanics 4:1). Obama will need to parlay that probable sweep and use that momentum to stay close in TX and OH and have a showdown in PA but even if that happened Oreilly is also thinking that neither will have the 2k delegates needed unless it comes down to Superdelegates which would be a big problem if it were for Hillary.

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:30 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
nghtvsn wrote:
I pretty much agree with Corpse in that the focus will be TX, OH, and PA down the stretch, however, Clinton may have big leads atm Obama is going to probably have a major boost next Tuesday with DC, MD and VA (this according to Oreilly due to DC being more minority, MD and VA with blacks outnumbering hispanics 4:1). Obama will need to parlay that probable sweep and use that momentum to stay close in TX and OH and have a showdown in PA but even if that happened Oreilly is also thinking that neither will have the 2k delegates needed unless it comes down to Superdelegates which would be a big problem if it were for Hillary.


She needs to get Michigan and FL seated.. And Im sure neither will have the 2025 needed as well. The only possible way for that to happen is if the last big three states are landslides for one of them, not going to happen.

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:41 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Whoa-did yall catch this? These are the total votes!

Clinton: 7,405,188
Obama: 7,337,777

dont get much closer!

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:51 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Re-sign Randy! wrote:
Whoa-did yall catch this? These are the total votes!

Clinton: 7,405,188
Obama: 7,337,777

dont get much closer!


Those are really tremendous numbers. :D

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:00 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
I didn't realize New Mexico was still going on. Obama was ahead last night, and I thought he was pulling away with it, but it looks like Clinton somehow caught up and is now ahead by a sliver, according to CNN. Could go to either of them, still.

This race as a whole is just crazy. I think it goes to show that we have two very strong Democratic candidates, and I can't wait to see one of them win in the general election. :)

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:01 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Re-sign Randy! wrote:
Whoa-did yall catch this? These are the total votes!

Clinton: 7,405,188
Obama: 7,337,777

dont get much closer!


I remember one CBS poll had Clinton ahead by 14% in the Super Tuesday states (even though their national poll was even), so coming in as close as he did in the popular votes is pretty nice for Obama.

Basically from the discussion, we could see both camps can feel good going forward. :)

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:01 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Also I think it's more likely that MI and FL have a re-election (caucus style) in a later date as a compromise than getting delegates re-instated directly.

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:07 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
xiayun wrote:
Also I think it's more likely that MI and FL have a re-election (caucus style) in a later date as a compromise than getting delegates re-instated directly.


That would be mighty interesting, and be bad news for Obama.

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:19 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Kevin Drum over at washington monthly is known for being thoughtful and even handed and has for much of this election been for Hillary and even said he was glad she did well last night.

But he trusts this projection from an MSNBC political analyst:

It looks like Obama, by the narrowest of margins, won last night's delegate hunt. By our estimates, he picked up 840 to 849 delegates versus 829-838 for Clinton.


Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:31 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
xiayun wrote:
Also I think it's more likely that MI and FL have a re-election (caucus style) in a later date as a compromise than getting delegates re-instated directly.


Where did you get that information? The Florida Democratic Party is basically broke and a caucus would have to be approved by the state legislature, which is completely controlled by the Repubs in Florida and controls one branch in Michigan. They don't care if the Dem delegates get seaterd or not, it's not their problem. The DNC should have done like the Republicans and stripped half the delegates.

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:02 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
I was looking at the California numbers. Obama finished 10% pts behind Clinton and still almost got more votes than Romney and McCain combined. 1.717m to 1.766m

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:17 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
How close could New Mexico get? With 98% reporting,

Clinton 66,173
Obama 65,963

So about 2,500-3,000 votes left to be counted.

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Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:00 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
How many times will NM go into recount?

NM and MO are clearly the most interesting races in the primary and general elections.


Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:19 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Eagle wrote:
xiayun wrote:
Also I think it's more likely that MI and FL have a re-election (caucus style) in a later date as a compromise than getting delegates re-instated directly.


That would be mighty interesting, and be bad news for Obama.


Why would that be bad news for Obama? Doesn't he do well in caucus states?

I think at least Florida should be left the way it is if they decide to count them. After all, all the candidates were on the ballot. Michigan is a different story, though.


Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:09 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Chris wrote:
Eagle wrote:
xiayun wrote:
Also I think it's more likely that MI and FL have a re-election (caucus style) in a later date as a compromise than getting delegates re-instated directly.


That would be mighty interesting, and be bad news for Obama.


Why would that be bad news for Obama? Doesn't he do well in caucus states?

I think at least Florida should be left the way it is if they decide to count them. After all, all the candidates were on the ballot. Michigan is a different story, though.



I think he is refering to Obama, so far, not doing super well in big diverse states. He hasn't really shown he can win in states with many different types of voting groups. Most of his wins have very small populations and voting groups. FL also has a very large older crowd, which favor Clinton. And many hispanics. And maybe in MI because it's one of the big DEM strongholds, which Hillary has been winning, and the Economy is so awful there, and Clinton is seen as better for the economy. Soo...Im guessing that's why.

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:47 pm
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
Super Tuesday isn't over yet and its already Thursday! NM still hasn't been called. Geesh, it cannot possible take that long to count less than 150,000 votes, can it? I betcha Richardson's drawing attention to his home state intentionally. Sneaky, sneaky...


Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:28 am
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
dolcevita wrote:
Super Tuesday isn't over yet and its already Thursday! NM still hasn't been called. Geesh, it cannot possible take that long to count less than 150,000 votes, can it? I betcha Richardson's drawing attention to his home state intentionally. Sneaky, sneaky...


No, they have to hand count all the absentee ballots and such, and I think the state allows people to send in absentee ballots up to the day of election, which means they won't even receive them until today or tomorrow.

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Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:14 am
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Post Re: Tsunami Tuesday Winners
More than 17,000 provisional ballots are still to be counted in NM, and that'll decide the winner.

The updated delegate counts from CNN:

Clinton - 840 pledged / 193 super
Obama - 831 pledged / 106 super

The total number of pledged delegates through Super Tuesday should be 1792, so 121 haven't been assigned.

I had been thinking how Obama stayed as close as he did when there wasn't any truly surprise on Super Tuesday and when he lost MA, NJ, and CA by double digits, then I realized, with some help: it's because of the margin he is winning his states. He has won 8 states with over 60% of the vote:

Alaska (over 70%)
Colorado
Georgia
Idaho (over 70%)
Illinois
Kansas (over 70%)
Minnesota
North Dakota

While Clinton has won only one state with over 60% of the vote: Arkansas. By winning Minnesota so convincingly, just as an example, he more than made up the loss in MA delegate-wise. Caucuses are really helping Obama, as I doubt the margin would be nearly as big in those caucus states if it had been a primary. I guess us Obama's supporters are generally younger, more enthusiastic, and more stubborn in trying to convince the others when sitting in a room.

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