Then it was torrino, bABA or Eagle, but he said "mods". Do you think loyal is lying...again?

and his have also been deleted. but as far as people's advice or comments go, any advice from anyone will be given cause its been called for! you nor me can selectively choose who says what anymore.

and once again, you will not be selective about who says what to you over here. you started this. listen to everything. everytime you mention that one person's comments are not required here, i'll make it my duty to point out that is it. if this comment of mine is something you don't think is needed either, i will make it a point to reply back and tell you that it is.

escuse me. stop mixing stuff up here. are we refering to loyal or are we refering to tony. this conversation started off with talking about tony, not loyal.

we're handing out advice now?

Mav, regarding admin asking loyal to proof-read one of your articles (whether accidental or not), loyal's a much better writer than you. You should consider yourself lucky to have him proof-read your material.

Much funnier stuff to talk about, dolce, but there has to be a line drawn. You and everybody else knows that members with a history of troublemaking shouldn't be supported for going out of their way to hunt down info I don't provide, and contacting me via something that is totally seperate from this site. To top it off, he lied about how he got the address and about what his intentions were, and how it was accidentally sent, yet nobody bothered to ask how the e-mail address accidentally was typed out by him in the first place, when I only leave a PM contact.

This wasn't a friend of mine, this was somebody who has been told to stay away from me, but he didn't, and that shouldn't be supported. The conflict of interest that I spoke of, due to Eagle and bABA in part, is very clear to see at work, as loyal's friends refuse to talk about what he did, and instead, as the MO of these mods is, are ridirecting it as if I have the problem. That is a big problem in itself, and one that they refuse to acknowledge.

Um...no loyal's not. I could write circles around him, and he knows it.

Maverikk, I don't understand your need to make big issues out of such little things. I really don't understand how anyone on a website can fight with someone else they don't even know. It gets pretty stupid, and I think you need to stop.

But, you probably won't listen to silly old me, so we're going to duke it out since you like to fight. It's my move first:



Oh, you didn't know that I know karate? WELL FACE THE FACTS!

Again, MG, I didn't start it, so direct your comments at the one who did.

what acknowledgements are you looking for mav? I've told you over PM. I've told loyal to his face (chat window) that i've seen situations that i've considered baits as well. why do you think rule changes took place? why do you think i had to create a special agreement between the 2 of you so i could account for baited arguments and what not. if you don't believe me, i'm sure loyal will have no problem telling you how i felt about the situation. read the IM conversation between me and loyal. are you so stuck up on his mention of the mods informing him about something that you totally ignored the rest of our conversation? its all there mav. stop with this selective reading and argument making. loyal, deep down inside, as far as i'm concerned has baited you. loyal knows this, you know this, eagle knows this.

sheesh .. i thought you were just ignoring arguments against you. now to leverage yourself, you're even dismissing the very claims i made that even remotely supported your own feelings on certain matters?

Well, then you just continue it which is kinda bad too. I don't fully understand what's going on, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have got to the way it is without you continuing it. Just be cool about it. Let it breeze by. Go "La la la" when someone starts something.

As for our fight, I never knew you were so good with a golf club....

Well, I saw a lot of comments from you about the position this put YOU in and how this situation needs to be looked at from YOUR POV, but you did let him know that I had an excellent case about being right all along. That was there, but here at the forums, you have once again redirected it at me, and we both know that I have not been the problem between he and I, and your mods need to be told that, but they obviously haven't been, and can't see it for themselves. Eagle needs to be told too, or at least acknowledge how wrong he was for that e-mail he sent. You do remember his claims about the situation, don't you? Are you now saying that I didn't deserve to be told that by him, and are you saying that once it's proven that he didn't get that e-mail address like he tried to claim, that the credibility of him slips even more?

MG, what you have suggested was already done. I even had him on my ignore list for months, when we had that feature available. Been there done that.

mav, loyal isn't here arguing with me about how i feel and what i said. if he was, i'm sure the 2 of us could take this entire conversation to a 100 posts as well.

i'm addressing you here, not him. my stance on loyal and his actions are clear to everyone in first post, i don't see why i have to take a club and beat it down everyone's throats again and again and again. if you can't bother reading the first post of this thread, you don't deserve to be in this thread.

i am focussing on what decision was taken and what accusations you've thrown at me and my mods and finally, point out (by making my own very assumptions) on why you created those countless threads this morning to begin with.

loyal's not arguing because all of his buddies are defending him and trying to redirect it at me. Not one of them have acknowledged him as anything but a model citizen. When another lie that is told is proven, they'll attack me for that, too. It;s their MO.

It wasn't countless threads, it was about 5, and I did that so I could talk one on one with whoever the thread was dedicated to. That way, I wouldn't miss anybody's post and get accused of avoiding anything like I was.

There are problems with both Loyal and Mav here. I respect you both, but you've both done your share of damage. I wish I could say that I see this being resolved nicely, but it obviously won't.

I read all of the arguments here, and it's getting to the point where even I have a headache. And I'm not involved! Usually, I'm chock-full of advice and theories and possibilities of resolution, but I have none. It's like the Goldie/Lecter situation. It's like a dormant volcano. It could erupt at anytime, but for now, it's a dead argument.

Mav, I don't know what to say. I like both of you and respect both of you (same with the mods and admins, as well), but you're obviously not happy with a lot here. I'm not saying to leave, because I would like to think there's far more for you to enjoy here than there is to be a burden to you. Maybe take a break from the place. You were on a break, but suddenly came back a few weeks ago. The place isn't the same unless everyone's around, so your presence will be missed. But, perhaps a break from this situation is what you need. Again, I'm not telling you to. I'm not even asking you to do it. I'm just suggesting something, since nothing else seems to work out for anyone.

I agree with X.

I think both Loyal and Mav need a break from this site. I feel they should both be banned, not for bad reasons, but just to cool down and give them some thinking time. Cause just saying "your taking a break", doesn't mean your not gonna come into the forums and browse around. I feel that both Loyal and Mav should be banned just so its sure they are away from the site for a while just to cool things down.

Maybe when they come back, this argument could be looked at in a bigger picture, and will sound way less biased...

dont kill me.

loyal's not arguing for reasons that are best know to him.

pray tell me. where have i called him this model citizen? so you're more than willing to point out problems in my posts when i make one thing sound slightly more than it is (even though i've defended it since then and stick to what i said) yet you continue to make claims on my posts painting another person as a model citizen.

I'm talking to you. I'm talking to you about you. I'm talking to you about you remarks about the mods. I'm not talking about loyal. we haven't been talking about loyal. we've mainly been refering to our decisions based upon what loyal said or did.

when we start discussing loyal himself, i'll first invite him into this thread and let him defend himself first just livke i did dolce and any other member you saw fit to attack here. they have fingers of their own to type with.

Phew... that was a lot of reading!

My 2 cents... this is clearly a pattern of behavior from Maverikk that I have observed over the past 2 years. The constant bickering, arrogance, and refusal to admit to ever being a contributing factor in a fight. Think about the sheer number of conflicts he has had over the past few years... I can't recall another poster who gets in as many fights that get this bizarrely whacked out of shape (that go way beyond a normal debate).

I've rarely (or possibly never) seen a fight between members that wasn't both people's fault. Yet, despite the numerous fights Mav has, I've never once seen him say he was indeed wrong, did some things to contribute, and could be a better member. Does this mean loyal was indeed wrong too? Yes. The difference is that loyal isn't here arguing that he is perfect, acting arrogant, accusing everyone who posts of being liars, demanding action being taken, and demeaning the mods/admins.

This type of thing is not unique to this site... this stuff occurred frequently with Mav when I was a mod at boxofficemojo. I received numerous PMs from him accusing me of taking sides in fights he was in, or that he has lost faith in me or other mods. This is the same story, just a few different characters involved. Nothing changes.

I posted this a while ago, but I noticed anytime Mav gets backed in a corner, instead of admitting perhaps he was indeed wrong, he accuses you of being a liar, challenges you to prove everything and anything to deflect the argument, and once you do, he changes the subject. He has a "shotgun" approach to arguing in which he scatters enough arguments to deflect and perhaps find a shred he can hang onto for being right. While sometimes I admit I find this style amusing, there are other times (like this) where it is simply annoying as he makes it virtually impossible to stay on subject and get anything solved.

It is because of this constant pattern of behavior and his debate style that it is painfully obvious this will NEVER be resolved. There is no middle ground for Maverikk.

His vague threats to "handle things on his own" mixed with his very apparent hot temper leave me slightly worried. It does not seem healthy for the boards.

That being said, as dolce said earlier... when Mav is having fun on the boards and not arguing, he is an extrememly valuable member and somebody I enjoy conversing with. If he ever learned to find a middle ground and learned how to patch up a difference ON HIS OWN - not only would I have a heart attack, I would respect him that much more. But, sensing his pattern of behavior - once he gets something in his head (hatred for another member) that will NEVER go away and always will be a problem.

Same old shit from you, and I didn't even bother reading it to know that.

No one is getting banned. These are two grown men who should know how to handle themselves accordingly. Its getting irritating on both sides.

C'mon guys, its very hard for admin/mods to take sides in a long-standing riff that's carried over months/years and over several forums. This is why none of the aformentioned "volcanos" X made the good point of bringing up where ever easily resolved if at all. Frankly I think everyone who's jumped into these threads has done so on their own defenses and not on either of the two's sides. Adult men can speak for themselves clearly. We're just speaking for ourselves.

Everyone else is interjecting since so many issues not having anything to do with the volcano have been brought up.

No banning, guys need to think for themselves what they like coming here for, and if it outweighs what they don't like coming here for, they'll manage the dark matter for their own happiness. If it doesn't, than they'll leave of their own volition.

Technically, no rules have been broken (border line flaming anyways, but that's debateable) so there's no reason to issue warnings rather than address the matter at hand in public and then put it to sleep.

I still love you. Perhaps I just enjoy the abuse!

I don't think anyone should be banned or warned or anything. Loyal has been spoken to but really, what this all comes down to is that this was something that was done outside of the site. I'm not defending what loyal did, it was kind of dumb, but I am not taking Mav's side either. I have known Mav for a lot longer than I have loyal and although I see his point, I do feel that this is getting blown out of proportion. Mav feel that the nascency of this problems stems from something that happened a while ago, and while I understand where he is coming from and empathise with him to a degree, I do think this is a decision that should be repected . This has nothing to do with nepotism, it has to do with what all of us thought was just. You can accept the decision or not, either way, life goes on.

No, the bannings would not be needed (unless either did some to illicit a warning, of course... and I hope I spelled illicit right, and used it in the correct context...). But, I'm just suggesting taking a break for a little while. Look at me! I took a break for an entire week, after so many different issues, and I came back refreshed and happy again. It doesn't take much. As I have stated at least five times, it's only an option for ANYONE to take, not just Maverikk. It makes you feel better, and a lot of old issues either die out or just get put to rest for a while.

Answer me a question. If I took a break, what would that have solved if I got a very unwelcome e-mail at an address that was not connected to the site I took a break from? Are we all seeing the line that was crossed yet?