Well, that's what I meant when I said the n-word and its variants is more diluted. But in many ways that makes its usage more insidious.

Also, this difference appears so to you, but would not be applicable to everyone else. Can you think of a scenario in which a black person is offended by any use of "nigga" but uses "jewed" liberally as if it was not offensive?

In one way or another, these terms are bound to be offensive, because fundamentally they are, as they've always been, negative. You're not limiting their offensive nature by using them among a select group of people (your 'friends'), you're merely evading punishment or chastisement for your usage of them, since your friends will presumably take those phrases to be inoffensive, whereas strangers might be offended by them.

that is double standards.

Before I go to bed...

getluv, I changed my original post a bit. I see what you mean.

Difference is...:

- context: is it positive or negative?
- meaning: if negative, can the term serve as self-deprecating humour?

Chip was not being self-deprecating: he cannot use the term. If I were to use "jewed," as a Jew myself, I would be making a negative comment about my identity - thus, it is permissible.

Nigga may not be morally acceptable, but because it has a place in my circle as a word with a completely different meaning, almost like an inside joke would, it is permissible when used in that completely different meaning context and in private. And, besides, you will never hear it anyways, unless you become a part of that circle!

But Chip...he wasn't being self-deprecating, he was negative, and his meaning with the word, as he later revealed in this thread, matches the traditional meaning. I don't see how we can justify his usage.

It is socially permissible, but not morally.






The meaning of nigga is never completely different from its derogatory sense. When you use it in a positive light in a closed circle, you're 1) giving it an added meaning which to you is positive and 2) trying to remove the negative meaning from it by excluding those who would point out to you that that negative meaning is still present in it.

By acknowledging that nigga can only be used positively within a closed circle, you're implicitly acknowledging that within a broader circle, your usage of it in a positive sense will be received negatively by others. That alone, if nothing else, confirms that the term implicitly carries within it negative and positive connotations. In fact, the connotations are largely always negative because, in addition to the negative meaning (as when the term is used to denigrate black people), which you acknowledge to exist by trying to remove it from the word as used within your private circle, the positive meaning you attach to the term will certainly be read negatively by people outside your circle.



Well, it's no use justifying it, since he's being ignorant. But, it took someone outside his circle, you, to point that out. I'm sure Chip has used "jewed" before among his circle of friends, none of whom were offended, just as you have used "nigga" among them. It's innocuous to him as long as the negative connotations are not brought worth. You called him out on it, and in this way brought out those negative connotations.

I'm doing the same thing with respect to your usage of "nigga". It might be innocuous enough to you within your circle, but that's just an affect. The term is always negative.

What I think matters is intent, your own understanding of the word, and the expectations you have for the reaction of your listeners to the word. If you don't have any racist intent, you take the word to mean something non-racist, and you know the people you are talking to see it the same way, I don't think it's racist. That's the case with da torri and his friends. Chip could be ignorant, in which case he had the wrong expectations about how others would interpret the word. That's just a lack of thought put into it. If there is any racist thought or intent, I think it's racist. If you know someone else would take it as racism, I think it's a lack of respect and racism (unless the other person is being racist, in which case it's mutual stupidity and maybe more).

The way it tends to be in society says that it's the words that relate to racism. I think it's entirely thoughts and perspectives. Stopping the usage of words can prevent the spread of those ideas to an extent. It can do even more to keep racist ideas from taking power. But than racist ideas themselves can keep themselves from power in any society once it reaches a certain level of complexity and fluidity. What changes things is changes in the way people think.

Cool, one new English word I learned.

like the rest of the threads in this section of KJ, can this be locked.

Like who didn't know Munk-E was an ignorant fuck.

I think DP07 hit the nail on the head. What matters most is the persons intent, and I don't believe ChipMunky meant it as Torri took it.

That said, similar to how jujubee was offended by what korrgan was calling her, torri was obviously offended by what ChipMunky said. It doesn't make Chip a racist, rather, he was insensitive or possibly ignorant to the reaction his comments would cause.

I think making a thread like this, publicly decrying someone as a racist, is just as insensitive and ignorant as the original comment. The proper course of action is to let the person know that their comments are offensive to you, and that you would appreciate it if they stop.


End result: Chipmunky, while I don't believe you ever meant to be racially insensitive, people took your comments that way. Now that you know it, please be more careful of how what you say may be taken by others.

And I agree, this thread will be locked.