Roid ignore me. I take every opportunity to piss maverikk off with he whole marvel and dc thing.

on the dc front though, theres a lot thats been happening. DC is actually dishing out much better comics (from what i udnerstand in the industry right now and i dont just mean identity crisis). Their animation dept .. well .. that pretty much kills marvel at the moment and they're being smart about it. It took me a long time to figure out why they would end BatmanTAS and Batman Beyond. And then it made sense. Get Timm and Dini to work on Justice league, which they did and now an entire generation of kids are learning about Martian Manhunter, Wonderwoman, Flash, Green Lantern (the wrong one though) and a whole assortment of other characters).

GL:Rebirth is becoming a sellout, and with the possibility of both Rayner and Jordan being side by side (possibility), Green Lantern interest is getting higher too again.

I actually looove all DC characters (the ones i'm most exposed to now). And I have DC animation to thank for that. Since 92, they've dished out the best. I'm glad WB stayed out of Dini and Timm's way on this. Ofcourse the latest Batman animation debacle will probably never be forgiven by some of us : )

Your info is wrong. Marvel is actually the one dishing out the better quality in the industry right now, as usual. Reviews and sales are great. New Avengers just sold 240,000 copies, so if you can compare that to GL:Rebirth's 106,000 if you like, and I won't even laugh too hard.

You can't even argue who is more successful if you're trying to convince anybody that it's DC, because there are facts that prove that to not be the case.

Did I compare sales? no.

Mav mav mav ... tsk tsk .. you took quantities sold to justify quality!?!? I had to live to see this day!!?!?!

anyhoo dude, please notice that i never in a serious argument even compare marvel and dc, its usually you who does. While my concern is not to put marvel down and DC up, my only concern is to make you realize that i enjoy DC and thats just how things are ... and DC is actually not as bad?? How good is Marvel? How the hell am i suppose to know .. i never read it?? All i know about Marvel are 4 things.

a) DC kicks its ass in the animation dept
b) Marvel has better sales
c) Spidey, the only character i'm remotely exposed to is just not appealing to me
d) Marvel, with the idea of dishing out a movie for each and every one of their characters has already put the comic book genre in movies into a downward spiral, from which, only the A list characters will survive, and that too if the marketing can convince them to go watch a movie. Spidey in my eyes is now the only sure bet at the box office because it got tehre before the overkill and people have faith? Batman and superman?? Hell, i remain spectacle even about them. FF4? Lets just say i'm hoping they do well, cause if they don't, then you can kiss most of marvel b list movie projects goodbye and prepare for bombs the likes of which even iraq prolly hasn't seen. which is sad, cause thor and namur actually look interesting to me .. hell even that iron man fellow looks interesting.

You brought up sales of GL Rebirth, and I clearly mentioned reviews being great for Marvel. They have the top talent in the industry working for them. Critically acclaimed writers like Ed Brubaker, Mark Millar, Brian Bendis, Warren Ellis, creator of Babylon 5 , J. Michael Straczynski, and Buffy TV show creator Josh Whedon, with Hollywood guys like Reggie Hudlin (HOUSE PARTY, BOOMERANG) and TV superstar writer Allan Heinberg (The O.C., Sex in The City, and Party of Five) coming next month, it's just a much higher caliber of talent on the whole, and they are delivering. As far as the art goes, DC has about 4 superstar artists, and Marvel has about 20. They just aren't at the same level.

Now, to answer you questions, and I understand where you are coming from, but I'm trying to help you upgrade your standards...lol

a) DC hasn't been putting out any animation of note in years. Batman Beyond is getting to be about a decade old now, isn't it?

b) http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/6291.html since you like numbers and stats, have a party at this site.

c) If you exposed yourself to more than just him, you would probably understand why Marvel is much stronger, because they don't rely on just a couple characters. They have many that have appeal, which is why they are in a position to capitalize on the superhero movie craze that they are responsible for.

d) Actually, Marvel saved the genre after DC basically killed it with Batman and Robin. Marvel can't continue to put out things like Elektra, because it only hurts their rep, but I would say that X-Men is definitely a sure bet success as well as Spider-Man. I too would like to see the genre continue to thrive, but overkill is the name of the game in Hollywood. If they notice something works, they don't worry about putting quality out as much as they worry about putting it out as fast as possible, to rake in the cash before the craze dies down. Kind of shooting themselves in the foot in the name of quick profits. One can only hope that quality wins out in most cases.

Theres nothing left from Marvel that will ever build a franchise as strong as Spiderman or X-men. I dont see any chance of Ghost Rider, Iron Man, Thor, or Captain America making much than 80 million each. Well I guess the same can be said of DC who is depending on Batman Begins and Singer's Superman Returns.

The movie producers need to spread their goals toward anime flicks like Ghost in the Shell, Macross and Akira

Folks, I'm gonna do some serious searching tonight on a pic from the Ultimate Fantastic Four plus, find some info I've seen on them making this movie based off the Ultimate FF4 and I will find it.. Tonight as with everynight, I always stop at BORDERS BOOK on my way to work to kill some time and I dig book stores in general, and I found the Ultimate FF4 Vol 1 introducing the origin which is in the movie and also the mention of Victor Van Damme being the 5th person in the shuttle with them and the pic of The THING finding out that Reed was the cause of his condition makes the THING Look MASSIVE compared to Reed and that's what I want to see when I see this movie.. I swear, when you see a pic of the THING next to Johnny in this Graphic Novel, he looks like he's 7 feet and that's what I want to see with Chiklis in this movie and they could make it happen through good use of CGI.. DO IT!!!!!!!!! ](*,)

Hey B, the simple facts are that The Thing is supposed to be 6 feet tall, and the Ultimate FF4 is a small new comic not a lot of people read. Why change the comics just to suit your tastes? I think they should remain faithful to the artists version instead.

Listen, I agree but unfortunately, that's not what there basing the movie off of, especially with DOOM being the 5th person on the shuttle crap which is reflective of Ultimate FF4..

Youre turning this into a marvel vs dc thing while i'm trying to just say that DC is good.

Mav, you should not argue with me about DC Animation. Batman Beyond is history. Just i nthe superhero dept, they have 4 shows going on right now, including one of the best shows in superhero animation ever, the justice league ... more people are even aware of the existance of the show than even beyond was. Add that to Teen Titans (whose focus is actually on the younger crowd), Static (though i don't know if it ended or not), And "The Batman" which really isn't the best show in the world but i think its great and is nominated for best animation (animation i agree, show, prolly not). Do not get into an animation talk with me.

Thanks for the sales site actually. I mean that. I've been looking for that for a long time.

I've been reading up on the other characters on the net. I'm trying to expose myself to others. Sadly, I usually cannot start until I start from the origins or know enough about characters. Thats why DC Animation helped cause i got acquainted with the characters and their dynamics easily. I went to my local comic book store numerous times. Other than Spidey, Batman and Superman and XMen, I couldn't find hard covers on any other heros unless i was looking for something new or something like sin city stuff. Checked the other comic store. Landed with the same. All the new stuff seems to be there, the old i can't find. I've always wanted to read hulk, thor and xmen (but for now, i'm happy with the xmen movies and their brief stay with xmen evolution cartoons)

Batman and Robin did kill it, along with Steel. Xmen and Blade pretty much revived it on their own while Batman singlehandedly killed it off. WB was stupid for taking it for granted that their most popular hero would fill seats to watch any crap they could.

Sadly, in my view, Marvel is now doing the same thing. Blade met with great success. People didn't even know he was a comic character till much later. Xmen made it clear that people were ready again and then Marvel decided to bring out their biggest draw. Everythign was great upto this point. A chance was taken with Daredevil with Hulk being a guaranteed draw. After that sadly, as i mentioned, Marvel is killing the genre and DC is joining with talks of Aquaman and GL. Actually, i hate blaming DC, its WB that deserves all the blame. DC has made sure to disassociate itself from anything they'll feel is crapfest. Remember what i told you when you mentioned the Thor thing? I hope they release that movie soon else you're looking at superhero movies made for a miniscule budget and hence not being as great as they could or major major bombs.

Again, don't look at this as a DC vs Marvel thing. I really believe in that happening. Marvel brilliantly revived the genre. Now I think they're killing it! They ended of the blade franchise (hopefully), daredevil should just wait in the shadows till people forget. Stick to Xmen and Spidey for a bit with at most, an introduction of 1 character. DC is coming back into the game and with 4 established heros running around, the market will get saturated with anything more.

I know little of FF4 or the ultimate series but hope these help

The top one is the one I read tonight at the bookstore and the bottom pic clearly show the massive size of The THING and that's what Chiklis should look like and can if they'd use some good CGI to make him look like that..

Stuart Immonen drew that, and he's hardly an artist that will be remembered, as he was just filling in for 6 issues on that title. I'd much rather have the true version of the Thing in the movie, so I'm glad we are getting that.

Mav. I'm going through that sales site. Anywhere where they sum up total sales for the year for the issues?

I don't know about dealing with listing total unit sales combined for each company if that's what you mean. I've never seen those numbers anywhere. They just track sales from month to month, but there are other sites that do an analysis every month, as they track the sales over the last year.

They just did that for Marvel today actually, and DC should be posted in a few days (they are second everywhere...lol) , but they do this every single month.

http://www.comicon.com/

Did you think I only followed box office numbers?
:razz:

No I meant individual comic sales for the year. Example Total sales for Identity Crisis 1 for 2004

They don't really overprint, so what those numbers are is retail orders, not actually sales, so they will eventually be overall sales, because they don't issue second printings and such. I actually edited that link, because they just changed their site design, so here's the link again.

http://www.comicon.com

dissappointing trailer, I think that it will suffer esp. because of its date.

Why would it suffer because of the date - isn't it opening on fourth of july weekend - one of the biggest starting dates.

I think its cause of the movies surrounding it.

I just got done watching the trailer and I must say this film looks great I dont want to get my hopes up to high but this film looks like it will be a great crowd pleaser