Your Glimpse At The Scarecrow *UPDATED* For BATMAN BEGINS
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bABA
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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andaroo wrote: Token Brown Dude wrote: A great analysis on Hulk. Though i must say, itis lack of humor was why i think people didn't like the hulk much .. it took itself too seriosuly, which worked fo rme, but i guess didn't work for others. I recently watched Superman and loved it. I'm undeiceded now if Hulk or Superman is my favorite superhero movie. Thanks! Hulk is a perplexing movie because Ang Lee completely failed making a traditional comic book film (aside from the editing and cinematography) because he had great actors and a great dramatic situation. Instead he made a film more akin to Unbreakable, which is much more arty and specific. Here I go on a tangent: Hulk really centers on the inner torment of the primary character. The Hulk IS the villian of the film. Nick Nolte and the Absorbing Man are complete afterthoughts of the story, a way to add an action scene to the end of the film. Much like Spider-Man II concentrates on Parker's inner torment, Dr. Ock and Absorbing Man, who incidently both have no long term interesting plans to do with the power they aquire, are just these henchmen added to the story so that it has some "authentic super villian". This, incidently, is why I have so many problems with the Spider-Man series. Bruce's father plays absolutely no part in directly how Banner becomes Hulk (well, except the backstory), the relationship with Betty and her father, and Hulks subsequent rampage in order to get to San Francisco. The instant Betty saves Bruce by walking down those steps in San Francisco the movie is pretty much over. Lee could have tagged on a clever ending where he re-Hulks out, takes Betty away, drops her off so they could have an intimate moment alone, then escapes in a big action scene, but instead. In fact, if Lee wanted to make an impact, he could have killed Banner. No cheesy supervillians, no "franchise", just take the plunge and turn it into the Jekyll and Hyde story that it is. Batman Begins may turn out to be the same way. It's VERY Batman focused, but the villian is a little more active than Hulk or Spider-Man, and a little bit more a part of the backstory of the whole piece. Not the scarecrow though, that part is almost a complete afterthought, mostly created to sell another uneeded supervillian.
Yes, indeed I've always accepted that. While i absolutely love the script to batman and love most of the stuff we've seen so far (espicially that unbelievable teaser), i do know that the movie might not translate so well for the normal audience. thats always been my fear.
the batman in the movie is very much like the modern interpretation of batman but what people fail to realize is that the modern day batman actually has many similarities to what what finger and kane had created minus the campiness and a few character traits.
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:16 am |
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Nazgul9
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:32 pm Posts: 11289 Location: Germany
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andaroo wrote: Much like Spider-Man II concentrates on Parker's inner torment, Dr. Ock and Absorbing Man, who incidently both have no long term interesting plans to do with the power they aquire, are just these henchmen added to the story so that it has some "authentic super villian". This, incidently, is why I have so many problems with the Spider-Man series.
Ditto. That's one of the reasons why i can't take many comic book adaptations seriously, the cheesy excuses to have a super villain in every movie. I would much rather have that the hero would be the only "anomaly" in the story, because if you have too many "freaks" in a show it quickly becomes absurd.
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:26 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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Nazgul9 wrote: andaroo wrote: Much like Spider-Man II concentrates on Parker's inner torment, Dr. Ock and Absorbing Man, who incidently both have no long term interesting plans to do with the power they aquire, are just these henchmen added to the story so that it has some "authentic super villian". This, incidently, is why I have so many problems with the Spider-Man series. Ditto. That's one of the reasons why i can't take many comic book adaptations seriously, the cheesy excuses to have a super villain in every movie. I would much rather have that the hero would be the only "anomaly" in the story, because if you have too many "freaks" in a show it quickly becomes absurd.
Well it depends from movie to movie and their stories. Hulk didn't require one at all. Hulk's origin story was very much about the Hulk and his unacceptance .. hes a transformation not out of his own choosing and cannot hide it if he needs to.
That was another great thing about Superman. Yes, there was Lexy but he mainly added more to the story of Superman than anything else ... the discovery of kryptonite and stuff.
Then there are some stories that cannot do without one. I know little about the spidey universe but the Batman origin movie almost requires one to an extent because of how Batman came to be. What i really liked about the script was how the villains themselves are treated. Indeed they are all side characters but they're there to develop batman's character, his motives and all. In the same way, while xmen can pretty much be a story about the mutants vs the world (no villains), the villains are central to the story. That is why xmen2 rocked so much. Where the villains weren't exactly villains but they weren't good either.
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:38 pm |
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Nazgul9
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:32 pm Posts: 11289 Location: Germany
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Token Brown Dude wrote: Well it depends from movie to movie and their stories. True, but most of the time they seem to be there for the sake of it, without having any deep connection or mutual history with the hero, not being especially relevant to the overall story, with a silly explanation how they came to be (by some accident). A prime example for this were the last two Batman movies. Token Brown Dude wrote: Then there are some stories that cannot do without one. I know little about the spidey universe but the Batman origin movie almost requires one to an extent because of how Batman came to be.
Why? His parents were murdered before his very eyes by some criminals. That's the reason, he wants to revenge them in a way. At least that's how i understand it (i'm not that much into comics).
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:07 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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Nazgul9 wrote: True, but most of the time they seem to be there for the sake of it, without having any deep connection or mutual history with the hero, not being especially relevant to the overall story, with a silly explanation how they came to be (by some accident). A prime example for this were the last two Batman movies.
I think its rather unfair to limit this to the last 2 batman movies only. look at batman returns .. that one was a complete crap fest!! Most of Batman's villains are psychos, people who finally just lost it and became what they did. The Riddler is one of them. So is Joker and 2 face in many ways even though it required a final tragic incident for them to go over the top.
Why? His parents were murdered before his very eyes by some criminals. That's the reason, he wants to revenge them in a way. At least that's how i understand it (i'm not that much into comics).
Thats the reason why he wanted to take revenge yes. But not why he became the Bat. In some batman comics (year 1 for example) which deal with his origins, it tells the story of how batman went into training for forensics, martial arts and a lot of other things because his parents died. But his experiences back in gotham upon his return defined how and why he opted for the bat. The introduction of common gotham villains like Falcone and the introduction of Scarecrow exist for batman to gain confidence as he goes about hiding himself in the night in a cape and cowl. There is another element butfor that, i'll be throwing in script spoilers.
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:33 pm |
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Nazgul9
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:32 pm Posts: 11289 Location: Germany
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Token Brown Dude wrote: I think its rather unfair to limit this to the last 2 batman movies only No, they're certainly not the only ones, there are many more (Spiderman comes to mind). As for Batman Returns being a crap fest, Batman and Robin is a 100-times worse.  Token Brown Dude wrote: Thats the reason why he wanted to take revenge yes. But not why he became the Bat. In some batman comics (year 1 for example) which deal with his origins, it tells the story of how batman went into training for forensics, martial arts and a lot of other things because his parents died. But his experiences back in gotham upon his return defined how and why he opted for the bat. The introduction of common gotham villains like Falcone and the introduction of Scarecrow exist for batman to gain confidence as he goes about hiding himself in the night in a cape and cowl. There is another element butfor that, i'll be throwing in script spoilers.
Oh ok, but it could also work without the inclusion of some silly, lunatic villains IMO (wants to hide his true identity + is fascinated of bats = Batman).
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:02 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
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Nazgul9 wrote: Token Brown Dude wrote: I think its rather unfair to limit this to the last 2 batman movies only No, they're certainly not the only ones, there are many more (Spiderman comes to mind). As for Batman Returns being a crap fest, Batman and Robin is a 100-times worse.  Token Brown Dude wrote: Thats the reason why he wanted to take revenge yes. But not why he became the Bat. In some batman comics (year 1 for example) which deal with his origins, it tells the story of how batman went into training for forensics, martial arts and a lot of other things because his parents died. But his experiences back in gotham upon his return defined how and why he opted for the bat. The introduction of common gotham villains like Falcone and the introduction of Scarecrow exist for batman to gain confidence as he goes about hiding himself in the night in a cape and cowl. There is another element butfor that, i'll be throwing in script spoilers. Oh ok, but it could also work without the inclusion of some silly, lunatic villains IMO (wants to hide his true identity + is fascinated of bats = Batman).
Well the lunatic villains are important in the batman universe. remember that the rogue gallery of batman is not meant to be uber strong (cept for a few exceptions), they're meant to be evil geniuses, yet criminally insane!! This is a very important factor because batman's struggle with his own identity and his own cause revolves around this.
Batman is a psycho. everyone thinks of him as that, even his closest allies. hes deeply troubled and much of the debate that ever happens about batman is that hes responsible for creating crime in gotham itself. even more so, hes meant to be as crazy as his rogue gallery to begin with, according to gotham and most of the comic characters in DC. This is something that the Wayne struggles with. His argument has always been that the difference between him and the others is that he does things for the good but not everyone sees it that way. Batman controls thing by spreading fear, not understanding, his words are absolute, not to be questioned, he openly thinks hes capable of anything but there are lots in gotham city who would want to throw him into arkham with all the people he goes around catching. notice how out of most comic books, the batman universe is the only one with an institution of the criminally insane and not just a penitenciary (can't spell it). The villains and their mentality are a reflection of the bat. their insanity constantly reminds of this person's instability itself as well as creates a struggle inside the character to differentiate himself from those that he catches and justify that hes not responsible for their creation.
Hope that helps.
And yes, batman and robin is a complete crap fest .... and somehow i still tolerate it.
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:18 pm |
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Nazgul9
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:32 pm Posts: 11289 Location: Germany
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Hmm..., the whole story around Batman seems to be quite more interesting as i firstly thought. Hope the new movie will adress all those issues more thoroughly than the previous attempts did. 
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:42 pm |
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bABA
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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Nazgul9 wrote: Hmm..., the whole story around Batman seems to be quite more interesting as i firstly thought. Hope the new movie will adress all those issues more thoroughly than the previous attempts did. 
Well i'm hoping the first movie doesn't go into overkill mode and try to explain everything either .. some things are better understood with time ...
there are some great batman ersources if you wish to check them out on the net.
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:51 pm |
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Bodrul
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:21 am Posts: 4694 Location: Cambridge, England.
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Token Brown Dude wrote: Nazgul9 wrote: Hmm..., the whole story around Batman seems to be quite more interesting as i firstly thought. Hope the new movie will adress all those issues more thoroughly than the previous attempts did.  Well i'm hoping the first movie doesn't go into overkill mode and try to explain everything either .. some things are better understood with time ...there are some great batman ersources if you wish to check them out on the net.
I thought you've already read the script, shouldn't you know?
BTW BABA, did you celebrate EID today? If so, Eid mubarak :wink:
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:54 pm |
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Nazgul9
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Token Brown Dude wrote: there are some great batman ersources if you wish to check them out on the net.
Sure, why not.
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:10 pm |
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bABA
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hans wrote: Token Brown Dude wrote: Nazgul9 wrote: Hmm..., the whole story around Batman seems to be quite more interesting as i firstly thought. Hope the new movie will adress all those issues more thoroughly than the previous attempts did.  Well i'm hoping the first movie doesn't go into overkill mode and try to explain everything either .. some things are better understood with time ...there are some great batman ersources if you wish to check them out on the net. I thought you've already read the script, shouldn't you know? BTW BABA, did you celebrate EID today? If so, Eid mubarak :wink:
I have but i have no idea which draft it is. I expect the story to remain the same mainly but not the entire content.
Eid Mubarak hans. I never get to celebrate .. hell, i dont even know if it is today over here. I believe its tomorrow.
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:05 pm |
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Bodrul
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:21 am Posts: 4694 Location: Cambridge, England.
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Token Brown Dude wrote: hans wrote: Token Brown Dude wrote: Nazgul9 wrote: Hmm..., the whole story around Batman seems to be quite more interesting as i firstly thought. Hope the new movie will adress all those issues more thoroughly than the previous attempts did.  Well i'm hoping the first movie doesn't go into overkill mode and try to explain everything either .. some things are better understood with time ...there are some great batman ersources if you wish to check them out on the net. I thought you've already read the script, shouldn't you know? BTW BABA, did you celebrate EID today? If so, Eid mubarak :wink: I have but i have no idea which draft it is. I expect the story to remain the same mainly but not the entire content. Eid Mubarak hans. I never get to celebrate .. hell, i dont even know if it is today over here. I believe its tomorrow.
Tommorow for me also
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:18 pm |
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andaroo1
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The interesting thing about Batman and Robin as a Batman story is it is one of the only pieces of Batman story that I can find that really addresses Batman in a post-angst state of mind. Clooney plays Bats on the edge of retirement. It's one of the only interesting thing about Batman and Robin (although, Freeze's story is still one of the best of any of the Batman villians).
Superman is going to be impressive if they don't burden the story with tons of angst. Maybe the reason I don't like the Batman Begins script is it feels like one more trip down the angst ridden superhero comic. It feels like wallowing in angst, over and over and over and over and over again. The idea that we're going to start another franchise with a tortured superhero strikes me as a tired idea.
I also wonder how they are going to play Peter Parker in Spider-Man III, because I'm about through with his whine as well.
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:17 pm |
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bABA
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andaroo wrote: The interesting thing about Batman and Robin as a Batman story is it is one of the only pieces of Batman story that I can find that really addresses Batman in a post-angst state of mind. Clooney plays Bats on the edge of retirement. It's one of the only interesting thing about Batman and Robin (although, Freeze's story is still one of the best of any of the Batman villians).
Superman is going to be impressive if they don't burden the story with tons of angst. Maybe the reason I don't like the Batman Begins script is it feels like one more trip down the angst ridden superhero comic. It feels like wallowing in angst, over and over and over and over and over again. The idea that we're going to start another franchise with a tortured superhero strikes me as a tired idea.
I also wonder how they are going to play Peter Parker in Spider-Man III, because I'm about through with his whine as well.
True. I believe it was Batman:TAS that gave Freeze its origin story as described today and Freeze himself is one of the most interesting and depressing villains. Even Batman has always carried sympathy for him and in a few minor cases, they've even helped each other out.
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Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:15 am |
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STEVE ROGERS
The Greatest Avenger EVER
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:02 am Posts: 18501
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 *UPDATED* With Scarecrow Pic From A Toy Figurine..
http://www.superherohype.com/news.php?id=2504
BUMP... Here is the actual Pic of "The Scarecrow" from BATMAN BEGINS shown in a Toy Figurine next to a BATMAN Toy Figurine.. I thought everyone said this character was supposed to be so Damn Creepy??? If that's indeed what he looks like, then this looks sad...
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/sho ... ge=1&pp=25
Here'as another closeup pic of him and he still looks like shit and not creepy or intimidating at all.. This is another notch down for BATMAN BEGINS.. :down:
_________________http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dmXF3CE04A This kills TDKR At the box office next summer.. Get used to this
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Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:25 am |
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bABA
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 Re: *UPDATED* With Scarecrow Pic From A Toy Figurine..
BKB_The_Man wrote: http://www.superherohype.com/news.php?id=2504 BUMP... Here is the actual Pic of "The Scarecrow" from BATMAN BEGINS shown in a Toy Figurine next to a BATMAN Toy Figurine.. I thought everyone said this character was supposed to be so Damn Creepy??? If that's indeed what he looks like, then this looks sad... http://www.superherohype.com/forums/sho ... ge=1&pp=25Here'as another closeup pic of him and he still looks like shit and not creepy or intimidating at all.. This is another notch down for BATMAN BEGINS.. :down:
Thats what you get if you judge freakiness by an action figure.
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Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:06 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 68357
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The figure is good, the character looks good. I want to see this, not badly, but i still wanna see this.
_________________STOP UIGHUR GENOCIDE IN XINJIANG FIGHT FOR TAIWAN INDEPENDENCE FREE TIBET LIBERATE HONG KONG BOYCOTT MADE IN CHINA
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Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:19 am |
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El Maskado
Arrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh!
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:17 pm Posts: 21572
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Do you happen to know if they have :
Spoiler**
Liam's version of Ra Ghul in the action figure section?
**Spoiler
Note: Admin has modified this post in order to blank out an important spoiler in this movie. Nothing in the text itself has been changed.
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Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:34 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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Note:
BOF now reports that Scarecrow is probably not dressed up on that orange suit as shown in the action figure. While this does not discredit the picture, it certainly adds more mystery into what scarecrow looks like.
The figure has close resemblance to the sketch that was released sometime ago of the scarecrow. I liked that picture quite a bit. Here it is
Here is another one. While both of them depict a suit and rightly so, there is a descrepency. I would favor the first sketch though

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Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:59 pm |
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El Maskado
Arrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh!
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:17 pm Posts: 21572
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Booooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuurrnnnnnnnnnnnnns
Censorship
Boooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrnnnnnns!

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Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:43 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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: )
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Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:46 pm |
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El Maskado
Arrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh!
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http://www.superherohype.com/news.php?id=2525
"'ExtremeBatmanfan' has possibly more on the Batman Begins soundtrack:
I have a followup to my scoop about Green Day being apart of the Batman Begins soundtrack. Well, I have done some major digging around and have found out some more bands that will be on the soundtrack. In addition to the three songs from Green Day (the two newly recorded tracks, and Boulevard Of Broken Dreams, the theme to the film), newly recorded tracks from The Cure, Foo Fighters, Velvet Revolver, Audioslave, Pearl Jam, Dave Navarro, Chevelle, and Metallica. Making for a total of 11 songs."
Get Green Day off the fucking soundtrack please!!!!! The best soundtrack for Batman was probably done by Sioux and the Banshees since it fit with the Goth theme
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Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:23 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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I walk a lonely road
The only one I that have ever known
Don't know were it goes
But its home and I walk alone
I walk this empty street
On the Blvd. of broken dreams
Were the city sleeps
And I'm the only one and I walk alone
My shadows the only one that walks beside me
My shallow hearts the only thing that's beating
Sometimes I wish someone out there will find
Till then I'll walk alone
Ah-Ah Ah-Ah Ah-Ah Ahhh
Ah-Ah Ah-Ah Ah-Ah Ahhh
I'm walking down the line
That divides me somewhere in my mind
On the border line of the edge
And were I walk alone
Read between the lines of what's
F**ked up and every things all right
Check my vital signs to know I'm still alive
And I walk alone
I walk alone
I walk alone
I walk alone
I walk a...
My shadows the only one that walks beside me
My shallow hearts the only thing that's beating
Sometimes I wish someone out there will find
Till then I'll walk alone
Ah-Ah Ah-Ah Ah-Ah Ahhh
Ah-Ah Ah-Ah Ah-Ah Ahhh
I walk this empty street
On the Blvd. of broken dreams
Were the city sleeps
And I'm the only one and I walk a..
My shadows the only one that walks beside me
My shallow hearts the only thing that's beating
Sometimes I wish someone out there will find
Till then I'll walk away!
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Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:25 pm |
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El Maskado
Arrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh!
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:17 pm Posts: 21572
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Thats what I was referring to,Baba. I cant stand Green Day. But then again the Batman soundtracks arent probably the best. The better songs were done by sioux & the Banshees and Offspring. Queen of the Stone Age would be a better choice.
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Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:27 pm |
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