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Because films made under pressure of failure, jail, etc. are usually worth the effort by the filmmakers on some level or they wouldn't risk in the first place.

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Yeah, but I assume that for every outsider it seems differently.


Anyway, "12 Stulyev" is pretty great.

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The one with Mironov and Papanov, of course!

I've gone back and forth about replying to this, because I personally don't consider Rump worth the time of day. I consider him a bit nationalistic, defensive and ultimately this is a political disagreement, and we won't find common ground.

I'll drop this as an example to defend against his claims above. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Parajanov

And I'll state on topic: One of my favorite films is Solyaris.

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Oh I did think about it. And I'm not afraid or self-censoring my thoughts and impressions. That's what we do in the Western world. I'm not afraid of your empty threats or the way you wish to write this all off as me being the ignorant one.

I stand by everything I said, and despite the fact that you think I haven't presented an argument (to that I just roll my eyes), you still at least had the decency to read my link.

You want a fight, you want to feel important, you want to feel like you are in the know. Again, I roll my eyes.


This is our disagreement. I consider this like I said above, unacceptible. I don't expect to find common ground on this. You've done an awful lot of defensive work to present what I'm saying as uninformed, but you've hit the nail on the head here and proved what I've said has validity.

It's not logical at all that there were forbidden topics. It prevents the flow of creative ideas.

It is the same in the United States and in China or wherever else this has been a problem or still is.

Again, everything you are saying, and your defensiveness is reenforcing everything I have read and studied about this section of Russia's history.

I don't think Russia is a bad place, or it's people are bad, but things happened, and they should be acknowledged.

And yes, I would acknowledge that there were quite a few films, hopefully the majority of them that were not made under the pressure of the Soviet Regime. But it's like saying that films in Hollywood's 1950s weren't under a similar pressure due to founded or unfounded associations with communist ideals. Both pressures on artists were unacceptable.

But even Tarkovsky left his home country after pressure from the Soviet Film industry about the supposed nature of some of his films. Some believe he was stifled by it, so he made the choice to look elsewhere.

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An adult doesn't start out a discussion telling the other person he's stupid. Really Rumpel... you need to go back and read what you wrote.


This is not a pissing match between countries. All the drama about Russia/Soviet Union being a bad place is you projecting your feelings on to others. The fact that the system at times went against its own artists. Nowhere did I attack or invalidate the filmmakers. I SUPPORT Russian filmmakers just as I do of filmmakers of ANY country at ANY time who wants to get their vision across (except Uwe Boll).

You asked a very general question about the nature of strong Russian films in the light of "hard censorship" from the past vs. today, and personally from my studies, my readings and my experience, the Russian filmmakers (like any other filmmakers in such time) were trying to communicate ideas which were complicated and somewhat against the grain of their society. Could I be wrong? Of course, but you missed your opportunity to educate by being so defensive and unapproachable in your first reply.


This is not a pissing match between countries. I'm not going to stop you from tearing up the US claiming you aren't an "insider". Viewpoints which criticize, analyze and celebrate a culture of a country makes it a stronger place in my opinion.

Again, you called it "hard censorship" before I even posted.


Who ever said that USSR = Russia in this topic? You mean when I said "Russia is not a bad place?". Again you have felt the need to assert yourself about non-issues. You assume people don't know world history? I'll keep my opinions about Putin's time in office for another topic.

One of the reasons why I'm so inflamed with you at this moment is you are being defensive about things that I'm not attacking.

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There are creative ideas everywhere but that doesn't mean one person can find inspiration everywhere. When there are "forbidden topics" that must not be explored it's not reasonable to think that an artist can express himself just as good or equally good (or even better) in the allowed topics if he's not feeling comfortable with them.

Back on topic. Besides Solyaris (which I liked a lot) I haven't seen a SSSR movie. But I just got Eisenstein movies and plan on seeing them soon. The priority is The Battleship Potyomkin... I read a lot about Soviet cinema and I have high expectations for the movies.

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Bah, stupid discussion here. If you wanna discuss the repression of art in the Soviet Union, then go to the Water Cooler or something.

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To be honest, I haven't seen very much Soviet films, and certainly my experiences have been packed towards earlier rather than later films. Its hard to avoid talking about the films of a country at times when they were tied to a National agenda and economy, and avoiding the topic won't help.

Many governments (I'm thinking mostly of Cuba right now) have sponsored great film industries, and part of it due to heavy financial support and the inevitable linking of film institutions to other national institutions (Acadamia, the Fine Arts, etc). Yes, there was also heavy control of film content that should be condemned, but part of what made older movies form these countries timeless is exactly the fact that interested directors have to find subversive ways of inserting critiques of the nation and culture. Frankly, its made them 'smarter' and has forced Soviet film directors to develope elaborate styles and structures as a form of commentary.

And yes, when even these attempts were stifled many directors managed to leave, and produce their best films outside of restrictions of their origin.

Anyways, that's my poorly arguemented theory on the strength of older Russian movies. New ones, I couldn't really tell you. In the past few years I've only seen Russian Ark, and the novelty of the movie wore off very quickly. I was bored, and it felt like the film was to bound to the ideal of its process that it failed to recognize the point when it outgrew its original inception. It wasn't terrible though. There were some very soft, pretty sceens, and I love when the little girls run down the hall. But overall, I definately glazed out on occassion.

My experiences with older movies is generic. Nostalgia, Man with a Movie Camera, Battleship Potemkin, etc...

If anyone is interested, though, they should check out African films whose directors where trained in Russia. As most early directors from that content received their training elsewhere (Russia or France mostly).

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What did you think of Zhmurki? I enjoyed that one...pretty funny.

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I'll try to get my hands on them.

And you should see Zhmurki. Pretty hilarious, I was surprised.

Re: Russian Ark

Might just be me, but I don't think you really get to be called arts house or peripheral when you have a cast comprised of thousands of national actors. That's the same kind of line they tried to pull for Yimou for Hero. What it means is a previous arts house director went for the big-time (sometimes this is good, sometimes it isn't). But its not quite the same thing. Its more like the co-option of an old form to new ends..especially marketting ends!