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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
I enjoyed it so much (and discussing it afterwards with stuffp) that I'm even thinking of seeing it again. It will be the first film I've seen twice in cinemas since The Expendables 3 more than two years ago.
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Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:35 am |
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stuffp
Keeping it Light
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am Posts: 11208 Location: Bright Falls
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Re: The Great Wall
Haha...because of your last posts I've gotten to this point where I'm feeling I should see it again upon re-evaluation of points you brought up.
I simply felt a growing disliking of the film while watching it. What you say about JT's role seems to make sense, but I just experienced it as unappealing, even if it's how it was intended, I didn't warm to how she depicted it.
Not sure what else to say about the dialogue, just feel their wasn't any flow to it, like the story was told in a stuttering way.
Lu Han's role itself was fine then I guess, couldn't care for it. It's still pretty much Damon's film and this was a serviceable supporting character.
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Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:47 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
Yeah. Totally Damon's film.
If I was in Guangzhou, we could go together. It would be an awesome film to see together having both of us already seen it.
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Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:26 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
Before I saw the film I was thinking quite cynically about the monsters representing/symbolizing all foreigners, but then it started and clearly states it is legend. Not only that but the Great Wall of China was built to keep aliens out. There's no denying that. The Chinese, even nowadays, are quite clear about their views of outside nations, so it really is no surprise if the monsters are meant to embody foreign life. But I think it is just best to take it as fantasy, and to not look too deeply. I mean, their are foreigners in the film, so it would be some strange double-standard if the monsters are also meant to represent foreigners.
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Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:37 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
So I saw The Great Wall again, and this time it was on a huge widescreen (must have been about 30 metres wide). My thoughts haven't changed. I still think it's an excellent film. One thing I didn't comment on before that is a very important aspect is the score. It's quite unique (not just stock Chinese and/or battle music). It reminds me of The Lord of the Rings trilogy in that its impending battle music is always there as a build-up, accompanying the beating drums. And it's just so well cut. Yimou doesn't waste a second. He keeps the gas running while the story is shaped, just waiting for the next battle. It's great stuff.
Another thing I didn't comment on before was the effects. Now, they are pretty excellent. I know that KJ will say they are shit because it's not a major Hollywood blockbuster that they have a built-in following with/respect for. It's a Chinese legend, not a bunch of buffoons driving fast cars, so let's trash it in every way possible, bruh! But they are quite impressive, and no worse than Jurassic World (both made by ILM). They seamlessly blend in to the film. It's a job well done.
I've never visited The Great Wall of China, but Yimou and Dryburgh (cinematographer on The Piano and Blackhat, among others) have captured it so well. Some nice landscape shots of this legendary monument, but in particular it is the way they crafted some of the shots (just before the foggy attack) to reflect Chinese paintings. The towers peaking through the fog in a washy watercolour-esque vignette. Beautiful.
And regarding Damon's voice; he's putting on a sort of subdued Scottish accent or neutral European accent. Whatever it is, it works well. I really liked it. It didn't sound like Damon at all, and it shouldn't either.
B+
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Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:12 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
stuffp wrote: pretty dreadful. I feel this will also be the KJ consensus. I mean, it is perfectly poised to ridicule. There is just too much ammunition on display for KJ's poachers to refuse. Not many members here are brave enough to stand out from the crowd. We'll see this when it is released in US cinemas.
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Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:37 am |
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_axiom
The Wall
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:50 am Posts: 16163 Location: Croatia
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Re: The Great Wall
Yet when people stand out from the crowd you point that they're wrong because the crowd can't be wrong. Whimsical as always. You're even more obsessed with this than zwackerm is with Moana.
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Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:20 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
_axiom wrote: Yet when people stand out from the crowd you point that they're wrong because the crowd can't be wrong. Well, as always, it depends on the subject and the crowd. Small brains need "rules" such as that in order to make sense of things, though, so I don't blame you for your incompetence. _axiom wrote: Whimsical as always. You're even more obsessed with this than zwackerm is with Moana. But I'm not bothering you or anyone else by talking about it. There's a difference. If you haven't seen the film yet, why bother coming in here? You're just looking for trouble, as all good trolls do.
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Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:22 pm |
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_axiom
The Wall
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:50 am Posts: 16163 Location: Croatia
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Re: The Great Wall
So defensive. Who hurt you child?
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Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:16 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
Oh, get lost, loser.
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Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:54 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
Today, I saw The Great Wall for a third time. Still love it. This time I went with my wife and she also loved it (and afterwards asked if I'd like to see it for a fourth time, which I accepted). I noticed even more things. It truly is just a grand and rich battle film.
A few things I thought about that I haven't previously mentioned:
-It is funny how Jing Tian's character, Lin Mae, talks about the Chinese as having "xin ren" (trust), and Matt Damon's character, William, says that he trusts nobody, and that's how they are different, because nowadays it is the complete opposite. Chinese people trust nobody, and foreigners are much more trusting (and trustworthy).
-As Andy Lau's strategist talks us through the origin of the Tao Tei, he mentions that the scouts get food for the Queen and she then multiplies. It shows everything in the film but not the multiplication. It would have been nice to see that.
-William talks about how he started out; first as a gleaner, then a page, then a Pikeman's boy, then finally a soldier (and expert archer). The terminology in the film hits all the right notes. I just love this side of it. I love hearing it, then reading up on these afterwards. I think the film could have totally started with a 10-15 minute prologue seeing him fight for the Pope, fight with the French etc. before he sets off for China.
-I also liked seeing the capital as Bianliang, and then narrowing down the legend to the first half of the Song Dynasty between 960-1127. From this, we can sort of begin to shape why the legend exists. Although the Song were not challenged until after 1127 by the Mongols, it seems like the legend is a reflection of their fears of outside forces, most likely from the Mongols (from Mongolia). Legend was most likely also written after 1127 but set in the 960-1127 period, so it all seems to make sense.
-One aspect I think the writers did remarkably well with was to not include any romance, especially where it would have been so easy to do so (between William and Lin Mae). They share a few chats (mainly because Lin Mae is one of only two Chinese that can speak English) but it remains as intrigue and respect. At the end when Lin Mae watches William and Tovar leave (with their guarded escort), she seems a tad deflated, and I do not believe this is because she is madly in love with him (which is what I imagine naysayers will say while rolling their eyes). I believe it is because she feels there is so much to learn from outsiders and that her fate is stuck behind that wall, and they were a breath of fresh air in her life (or perhaps jokingly because all the people she could practice English with are now either dead or have left), and this is another aspect I love about the film. When delving deeper, there is a mutual respect for foreigners and Chinese. The film doesn't spell it out, though. It is just there, and you feel it.
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Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:54 am |
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Jack Sparrow
KJ's Leading Idiot
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:15 pm Posts: 36923
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Re: The Great Wall
This was an entertaining option but it fails in a great script and the strong characters don't earn their merit or are never allowed to shine. Damon (of course) does a good job but William as perceived to be a hero for the occasion is just not earned here. From the Chinese actors I like Jing Tian the best not only because she has the biggest screen time but she convincingly portrays different emotions and is just not a thing to desire here. Andy Lau does fine in the small role and so does William Dafoe. Tovar is the most uninteresting side-kick I have ever seen and as with rest of the script his arc with William is half-baked.
I loved how the visuals blend with the small 2D animation. The creature design is brilliant its just that the use of them in screenplay tries to avoid them as much as possible, trying to force this into a sword-and-sandal drama without appropriately displaying visual treat.
One thing I loved the most in the movie is the score, its a good mix of Avatar and Chinese music, really well done. Its definitely not a slugfest but it has some major flaws and the storylines are half-baked most of the times.
5/10.
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Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:52 am |
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stuffp
Keeping it Light
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am Posts: 11208 Location: Bright Falls
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Re: The Great Wall
That sounds like a "C", a bit too positive here and there, I don't get the love for Jing Tian, but it's a lot closer to how I experienced it than Algren's review.
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Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:35 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
Whatever helps you sleep at night, stuffp.
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Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:50 am |
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Riggs
We had our time together
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:36 am Posts: 13270 Location: Vienna
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Re: The Great Wall
I have a soft spot for these kind of movies and I got exactly what I expected from The Great Wall. It's colorful entertainment, easy on the eyes and moves at a great pace. This is surely going to be one of those movies I watch countless times before going to sleep.
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Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:52 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
Yes! Really glad you enjoyed it, mein freund.
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Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:07 pm |
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stuffp
Keeping it Light
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am Posts: 11208 Location: Bright Falls
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Re: The Great Wall
Riggs wrote: This is surely going to be one of those movies I watch countless times before going to sleep.
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Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:02 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
Algren wrote: I've never visited The Great Wall of China, but Yimou and Dryburgh (cinematographer on The Piano and Blackhat, among others) have captured it so well. Some nice landscape shots of this legendary monument, but in particular it is the way they crafted some of the shots (just before the foggy attack) to reflect Chinese paintings. The towers peaking through the fog in a washy watercolour-esque vignette. Beautiful. This is what I was referring to: That is just beautiful.
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Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:05 pm |
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stuffp
Keeping it Light
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am Posts: 11208 Location: Bright Falls
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Re: The Great Wall
That is just rubbis.. an amazing shot indeed.
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Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:08 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
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Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:35 am |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Re: The Great Wall
Extremely silly, ridiculous, but also a very entertaining romp. Too bad none of the humor worked. Art direction, cinematography are beautiful, but with its big budget, why did the CG effects have to look so shoddy sometimes? :-/
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Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:21 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
The five or six attempts at humour not working is hardly an issue. It's small comments here and there, not Damon slipping on a banana.
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Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:16 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
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Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:41 pm |
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stuffp
Keeping it Light
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am Posts: 11208 Location: Bright Falls
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Re: The Great Wall
I enjoyed listening to that, but in the film it didn't stand out for me. I'm not sure what is it with scores, I enjoyed the score in Hell or High Water a lot, but then when I listened to it by itself online I found it boring. So I'd say it matters how it all clicks together, and The Great Wall doesn't for me.
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Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:47 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Great Wall
But Taylor Swift clicks just fine? Dude, you never wanted The Great Wall to click for you. #UnderTheThumb It is a brilliant film and score, and it was an oversight that you didn't appreciate it.
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Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:32 am |
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