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MovieDude
Where will you be?
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:50 am Posts: 11675
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yoshue wrote: I really liked the film. I'd figured Nolan's "big twist" well before the end, but that's one of the things I really appreciated. He's very bold with waving the truth in our faces the whole time. Good stuff.
I have another SPOILERY question, though. VERY SPOILERY.
When Hugh finds the hats and rabbits and talks to David Bowie and co. about it, I felt as though the film was completely straightforward with what the machine does. I thought it WAS the reveal. But near the end, with the re-emergence of you-know-who, I felt as though the trick (clones and whatnot) were being revealed YET AGAIN. So to everyone who's seen the film: did you also understand the significance of the hats and rabbits right then and there?
I think everyone in my audience understood, and I definitely think that the film's reveals of the twists were somewhat sloppy... Actually, that's not the right word. It's more that it showed it's cards in ways I can't ever recall. They didn't always work thematically, but yeah, I also appreciated that Nolan's twists weren't shown in the usual way one would expect.
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Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:55 pm |
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kypade
Kypade
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 7908
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yoshue wrote: I have another SPOILERY question, though. VERY SPOILERY.
When Hugh finds the hats and rabbits and talks to David Bowie and co. about it, I felt as though the film was completely straightforward with what the machine does. I thought it WAS the reveal. But near the end, with the re-emergence of you-know-who, I felt as though the trick (clones and whatnot) were being revealed YET AGAIN. So to everyone who's seen the film: did you also understand the significance of the hats and rabbits right then and there?
first, i like how you type five lines of capslocked warnings, many without space-barring it (no easy feat in itself), but are too lazy to write "spoil" twice and put it in between brackets :O
second, i got the significance of the hats and (wait, rabbits? not cats?) at the time (well, if by significance you mean the fact that it's showing that the machine doesn't transport, anyway), but with no evidence that the transported man was producing a bunch of clones, i couldnt really figure out how the machine would play in with the whole idea of duplicating the "real" trick.
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Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:41 am |
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Ripper
2.71828183
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:16 pm Posts: 7827 Location: please delete me
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MovieDude wrote: yoshue wrote: SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS
IM TOO LAZY AND STUPID TO HIDE THE TEXT SO DONT READ THIS IF YOU HAVENT SEEN THE MOVIE YET
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS
SPOILERS
I have one major question. So, every night, a Jackman clone or the initial Jackman appears in the back of the theater.
Where the hell did the non-drowning Jackman go the night of the 'murder'? Why did he not appear? He probably was going to come out but didn't when he heard Christian Bale yelling, and got out of there... I guess...
Jakcman was trying to frame Bale, clearly he didn;t show on purpose, he wanted Bale to come, he had the whole show for Bale.
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Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:49 am |
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Libs
Sbil
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 48626 Location: Arlington, VA
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I thought it was good, although I was confused by the ending (apparently I was the only one, because everyone else seemed to get it perfectly). As Moviedude said earlier, this is an easier film to admire than love, imo.
Acting is good all around, minus Scarlett Johansson, who is utterly wasted in a love interest role.
Top notch direction, cinematography, and editing.
B
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Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:49 pm |
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Amer
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:35 pm Posts: 1912 Location: Texas
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I thought it was fucking brilliant. Enough Said
_________________ The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous.....
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Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:55 pm |
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DIB2
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:57 am Posts: 4669 Location: Anchorage, AK
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A very well made film, one of the best this year
B+
_________________My Most anticipated films of 2015
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Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:42 am |
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KC
Team Kris
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:57 pm Posts: 1003
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I loved the film, but once it showed what the machine did when it cloned all those hats and cats, the rest of the movie was pretty predictable. The only question I have for you guys is this- Was Bales's twin a clone or was he is real twin brother? My friends and I left the theater thinking that Bale had used the machine that Tesla built early on thereby creating two of him. How else could Bale know about Tesla and why did Hugh say to Tesla "I want you to build me a machine that you built for my opponent"?
Just wondering...
_________________ "You're going to tell me what I want to know. The only question is how much you want it to hurt." Jack Bauer- Season 5
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Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:05 pm |
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makeshift
Teenage Dream
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:20 am Posts: 9247
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The biggest issue I had with the film was the shallow and achingly predictable answers to Nolan's slight of hand. The fragmented storytelling is perfectly orchestrated (and wonderfully entertaining in spots), but the twists are so mundane that I felt kind of cheated. All of this work for this?
It's also a very cold experience, with next to no emotional attachment at play.
Still, the performances are top notch across the board, the production values are top notch, and Nolan's direction is workmanlike and disarmingly un-showy (which I'm not so sure suits the film, actually).
**1/2
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Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:26 pm |
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MovieDude
Where will you be?
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:50 am Posts: 11675
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KC wrote: I loved the film, but once it showed what the machine did when it cloned all those hats and cats, the rest of the movie was pretty predictable. The only question I have for you guys is this- Was Bales's twin a clone or was he is real twin brother? My friends and I left the theater thinking that Bale had used the machine that Tesla built early on thereby creating two of him. How else could Bale know about Tesla and why did Hugh say to Tesla "I want you to build me a machine that you built for my opponent"?
Just wondering...
That's what my friend thought too, but there's way too many plot holes taht woudl come out of that.
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Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:06 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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nope.
they were real twins.
tesla was used to throw angier off. there was no clONE
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Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:57 pm |
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redspear
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:08 am Posts: 1879
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This was a book written by Cristopher Priest in 1983 I read in high school a lon long itme ago. Instead of just a ball Borden used a rod or hat or something else to through between he didn't just used doors but hung up curtains as well. The twist was not Nolan's but Priests.
the author was immersed by Tesla and magic he was also making a strong comment on the showmanship of reality and illusion. The coldness of science and so fourth. Tesla was not thrownin there by mistake either the parallels to edison and Tesla were quite apparant throughout.
As for the sloppy narrative..The book was almost enitrely the reading of two different diaries I think that Nolan did a great job to intertwine the two.
POTENTIAL SPOILER BELOW
[spoil]As for the Borden twins there were clues throughout the entire film it was constantly said that Borden used a double by Caine's character and by the assistant sent to work for him. The fact that Borden could not rememebr the knot that he tied or the conversation about doubles to the drunk actor who was playing Angier[/spoil]
_________________ Cromulent!
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Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:36 am |
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trixster
loyalfromlondon
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:31 pm Posts: 19697 Location: ville-marie
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Everything I had hoped for and more. Not a letdown in any sense. Everything about this film was pretty much perfect for me. Great acting, cool magic tricks, fantastic production design, and an excellent plot. I was completely enthralled and involved for the entire movie, and - even though I guessed it before hand - the twist was quite well-executed. The layered narrative worked quite well for me, especially since it contributes to the plot twists, and I never felt confused at all. I loved that it was as much horror as fantasy or drama. The final shot was perfectly creepy. The only downside - and this is truly nitpicking - was Scarlett Johansson, who was underused and never really delivered. Still, it didn't really matter, because this is a fantastic film. Can't wait to see it again.
_________________Magic Mike wrote: zwackerm wrote: If John Wick 2 even makes 30 million I will eat 1,000 shoes. Same. Algren wrote: I don't think. I predict.
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Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:50 pm |
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Squee
Squee
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:01 pm Posts: 13270 Location: Yuppieville
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I really liked this movie, and Nolan is now my favorite director currently working today. I also saw the very last twist at the end coming, but it didn't lessen it for me. Personally, twist endings that "shock" me usually also manage upset me, cause it's more the director fucking with you than making a real ending based off of the previous 2 hours I just watched.
I thought the mix of science in this movie was pretty damn cool and just made the final act all that much better.
Very very good movie, Im not sure I'd say it is better than The Proposition, yet, but it is at least the second best movie I've seen all year. It will require more watches, which will come when it is released on DVD.
***1/2
_________________Setting most people on fire is wrong.Proud Founder of the "Community of Squee."
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Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:31 am |
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El Maskado
Arrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh!
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:17 pm Posts: 21572
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Great movie. I loved the double mint wonder twins twist at the end and the bitter rivalry between the two. The characters are unlikable though
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Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:47 pm |
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BennyBlanco
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:51 pm Posts: 1102 Location: The Bronx
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Excellent movie. Just barely edges out The Illusionist for best magic movie of the year. Superb performances, cinematography and art direction. I was thoroughly engaged in the story and I liked the way it was presented. I always knew there was something off about that Fallon character, but I definitely wouldn't have predicted what it was. Great ending.
A
Edit: I have some questions. We are shown that the occupant of the machine remains inside while the clone appears a certain distance away. So I'm wondering how Angier could have been in the audience for the prestige, when he should have been the one falling through the trap door. Where exactly is Angier appearing from? Did he re-calibrate the machine somehow (the distance his clone appeared in the flashback is far shorter than in the theatre), or does he train a clone to do the turn and is himself hiding out somewhere in the theatre waiting to make an appearance for the prestige (doubtful)? Was Angier carting off these drowned clones every night? How many times did he perform this show before he set up Bale? How many did he kill?
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Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:47 pm |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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BennyBlanco wrote: Excellent movie. Just barely edges out The Illusionist for best magic movie of the year. Superb performances, cinematography and art direction. I was thoroughly engaged in the story and I liked the way it was presented. I always knew there was something off about that Fallon character, but I definitely wouldn't have predicted what it was. Great ending.
A
Edit: I have some questions. We are shown that the occupant of the machine remains inside while the clone appears a certain distance away. So I'm wondering how Angier could have been in the audience for the prestige, when he should have been the one falling through the trap door. Where exactly is Angier appearing from? Did he re-calibrate the machine somehow (the distance his clone appeared in the flashback is far shorter than in the theatre), or does he train a clone to do the turn and is himself hiding out somewhere in the theatre waiting to make an appearance for the prestige (doubtful)? Was Angier carting off these drowned clones every night? How many times did he perform this show before he set up Bale? How many did he kill?
NO NO NO!!
no one ever said that the original stays in the machine. you can't tell who does and who doesn't. at the exact moment of cloning, both clones are exactly the same .. same memories, same everything and now, just happen to be in 2 different bodies. its impossible to tell who the original was. it could be that the original gets transported every night or it could be that the last copy dies every time. there is no way to tell and clearly, it never mattered. Both copies are completely Angiers. Thats why even after killing like, 10 angiers, the one that survives has memory of killing all of them even if itself was the 8th or 9th copy and thus, it never matters which one survives.
He carts the drowned Angiers every night. thats why hes got the blind helping hands.
dont know how many performances. definetely more than 10 cause i see 10 of those water traps in the last scene. less than 100 though.
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Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:31 pm |
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Johnny Dollar
The Lubitsch Touch
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 pm Posts: 11019
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A second viewing tells me that this was not merely good, but superlative entertainment and one of the best films of the year. The narrative, organizing the film as a larger version of The Transported Man trick, is nearly flawless.
_________________ k
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Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:39 pm |
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BennyBlanco
Indiana Jones IV
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:51 pm Posts: 1102 Location: The Bronx
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Pansy Muffin Buttercup wrote: BennyBlanco wrote: Excellent movie. Just barely edges out The Illusionist for best magic movie of the year. Superb performances, cinematography and art direction. I was thoroughly engaged in the story and I liked the way it was presented. I always knew there was something off about that Fallon character, but I definitely wouldn't have predicted what it was. Great ending.
A
Edit: I have some questions. We are shown that the occupant of the machine remains inside while the clone appears a certain distance away. So I'm wondering how Angier could have been in the audience for the prestige, when he should have been the one falling through the trap door. Where exactly is Angier appearing from? Did he re-calibrate the machine somehow (the distance his clone appeared in the flashback is far shorter than in the theatre), or does he train a clone to do the turn and is himself hiding out somewhere in the theatre waiting to make an appearance for the prestige (doubtful)? Was Angier carting off these drowned clones every night? How many times did he perform this show before he set up Bale? How many did he kill? NO NO NO!! no one ever said that the original stays in the machine. you can't tell who does and who doesn't. at the exact moment of cloning, both clones are exactly the same .. same memories, same everything and now, just happen to be in 2 different bodies. its impossible to tell who the original was. it could be that the original gets transported every night or it could be that the last copy dies every time. there is no way to tell and clearly, it never mattered. Both copies are completely Angiers. Thats why even after killing like, 10 angiers, the one that survives has memory of killing all of them even if itself was the 8th or 9th copy and thus, it never matters which one survives. He carts the drowned Angiers every night. thats why hes got the blind helping hands. dont know how many performances. definetely more than 10 cause i see 10 of those water traps in the last scene. less than 100 though.
Cool. I'm clear on it now. My natural reaction was that the clone wouldn't have the same memories and consciousness, so it confused me a bit.
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Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:39 am |
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matatonio
Teh Mexican
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:56 pm Posts: 26066 Location: In good ol' Mexico
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Pretty awesome film, although i kind had an idea of the ending halfway through the movie. Great performances all around. Very slow but incredibly interesting that never bores you.
A-
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Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:54 pm |
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Snrub
Vagina Qwertyuiop
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:14 pm Posts: 8767 Location: Great Living Standards
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A-
Pretty much the same feelings as Matatonio. It felt a bit slow at times, though never really boring. Though it was easy to telegraph some twists, others blindsided me (that could be because there were so damn many of them). Not sure how well it'll hold up to multiple viewings, but at least it had me rapt for one.
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Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:32 pm |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 38004
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B
A good film, nothing more. One issue I had was that I was full-on expecting all these twists, the definition of a twist is to surprise me, and these didn't. It's not like I figured them out, I didn't notice the twin thing at all, but I knew something was coming, regardless of what it was... in that way it was almost predictable, that it was going to pull a twist. Also the film, while well acted and directed, was not quite as personally engaging as I hoped it would be, I didn't particularily care about either Bale or Jackman all that much, and I didn't think they themselves were particularily fascinating characters. Their story and the way the narrative plays out it was interesting, but not necessarily them, they were just there for the purpose of this story.
It's a good movie, but I don't think I'll be remembering this film down the road all that much. It's pretty much textbook "oh look! twists!" film, as I expected, but I did enjoy myself watching it.
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Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:44 am |
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Raffiki
Forum General
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:14 am Posts: 9966
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So, I just saw this today Yep. Finals were finished in the early afternoon and 1 theatre was still playing it (8 miles away but traffic took me a freakin hour to get there). I think the sound in the theatre was wayyy too loud. I started getting a headache and really couldn't understand some of the dialogue at some points. It was very annoying. It may have added to my slight confusion about all the twists. But, I think I got the main things down. And I really liked it. Very well done! A- My questions: Was Caine's character really clueless about alot of the stuff or was he always on Bale's side and playing Jackman the entire time? So, whose idea was that clone machine in the first place? I couldn't hear the dialogue at the end very clearly. What was Jackman going to do with the machine at the very end? (destroy it??) and was there anything else important revealed at the end aside from the twin thing?
_________________ Top Movies of 2009 1. Hurt Locker / 2. (500) Days of Summer / 3. Sunshine Cleaning / 4. Up / 5. I Love You, Man
Top Anticipated 2009 1. Nine
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Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:46 am |
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Squee
Squee
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:01 pm Posts: 13270 Location: Yuppieville
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Raffiki wrote: So, I just saw this today Yep. Finals were finished in the early afternoon and 1 theatre was still playing it (8 miles away but traffic took me a freakin hour to get there). I think the sound in the theatre was wayyy too loud. I started getting a headache and really couldn't understand some of the dialogue at some points. It was very annoying. It may have added to my slight confusion about all the twists. But, I think I got the main things down. And I really liked it. Very well done! A- My questions: Was Caine's character really clueless about alot of the stuff or was he always on Bale's side and playing Jackman the entire time? So, whose idea was that clone machine in the first place? I couldn't hear the dialogue at the end very clearly. What was Jackman going to do with the machine at the very end? (destroy it??) and was there anything else important revealed at the end aside from the twin thing? 1. I don't think he was playing jackman the whole time on Bale's side cause I would doubt Bale's character would want his twin to be killed. 2. The idea was Tesla's. Bale didn't actually know he could do something like that, and was sending Jackman off on a wild goose chase. 3. I believe he was going to destroy it, and depends what you mean by important! I found it kind of cool that the original Jackman was killed during the whole cloning thing. He had to have been.
_________________Setting most people on fire is wrong.Proud Founder of the "Community of Squee."
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Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:05 am |
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Bradley Witherberry
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:13 pm Posts: 15197 Location: Planet Xatar
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Unfortunately, yet another example of the uncommon, but highly debilitating directors' disease known as S.S.P.T. (Superb Story, Poorly Told). The most recent case, previous to this current infection, was Stranger Than Fiction. Christopher Nolan, clearly knows what a great story is, and he has been known to be a masterful teller of stories (q.v.: Memento), however here he has driven a sleek and powerful story until it ends up a smoke belching clunker. So, I can only wish him one thing: Get well soon!!!
Nonetheless, I still have to rate it:
3 out of 5,
...because I can still clearly feel the throb of that great story engine echoing beneath this rusting hulk...
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:35 pm |
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MGKC
---------
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:42 pm Posts: 11808 Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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Still my favorite movie of 2006.
My only question - how did Jackman make sure he got transported to the back of the theater, instead of like, 10 feet away from the machine like in his flashback?
An otherwise brilliant movie.
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:39 am |
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