If you look back in time, can you think of films that were made back in the day, that maybe didn't do as well as they would have if they were made today? The one that comes to mind more than any film I can think of is the Matt Damon/Ed Norton poker film Rounders. That was a poker film that came out in 1998 and it had a truly all star cast that included Damon and Norton and Jon Turturro, Martin Landau and John Malkovich in a truly remarkable role. It was made for only 12 mill but grossed a paultry 22 mill, but if this came out today, I think it would gross at least 100 mill. Do you guys have any others you can think of that would truly flourish with today's climate? Rounders was ahead of its time and if it would have waited perhaps even 5 years, it would have been a huge hit. Here is my review of the film.



One of the most under rated films ever!, 11 April 2005

Author: Dan Grant (dan.grant@bell.ca) from Toronto, Ontario


Rounders is nothing short of hypnotic. It is a film that introduced me and many others to the surreal world of poker. High stakes, Texas Hold Em, winner take all poker. For those unfamiliar with the game, not only is this a perfect tutorial to understand the game, but this is a movie that will entertain you right to the very end.

I like to think that this is just like Rocky. Matt Damon plays Mike McDermott, just like Stallone played Rocky. He has all the talent in the world but he needs to find a way to harness it and get the right opportunity. KGB is a little like Appollo Creed and John Tuturro is like Mickey in some ways. But enough of the comparisons of Rocky.

What makes Rounders so compelling is the interpersonal relationships in the film, no doubt, but let's face it, what really makes the film as vibrant and energetic as it is, is the poker scenes. We are introduced to several games here, namely Omaha, Omaha Hi Lo, 7 Card Stud and of course Texas Hold Em. According to Mike, Texas No Limit is the Cadillac of all poker games. He of course got that info from reading books by some of the poker greats such as Phil Helmuth, Amarillo Slim and of course The Godfather of poker, Doyle Brunson. Great detail is spent on the feel of poker in this film. When you are in the poker rooms, you can smell the smoke, taste the mustiness of the air and you can feel the emotions that the players feel. It really is a masterful job by Dahl to convey these emotions. And full credit has to be give to the screenwriters to know the lingo, to mollify us with terms like "flop", "river", "rags" and "bicycle". Rounders helped introduce me to this nefarious world and just like many others before me, I am hooked. Rounders can take credit for that.

What also must be mentioned here is the performances. Like many of the reviewers before me, I was awed by the absolute mastery of these characters by Damon, Norton, Malkovich, Turturro and Landau. My favourite performance is that of John Malkovich. He plays a Russian mobster called KGB. He is a master poker player and in the beginning scene, he takes all of Mike's bankroll as he hits a full house on fourth street, to cripple Mike's smaller boat. Malkovich is a master. He can play any role and he proves it in spades here. Think of his performance in a film like In The Line of Fire or in Of Mice and Men and this is about as diametric from those roles as you can get. There is not one second in the film when you don't believe that he is a Russian mobster with a propensity for gambling. If this film would have been more recognized back in 98, he could have received an Oscar nomination. He is that good. Matt Damon is really a fine actor and this film, while not as known as some of this others, is really a layered performance and one of his best. He plays the young prodigal son here with absolute zeal. Damon has to be one of the best actors working today and seeing as this was one of his first performances after Good Will Hunting, you have to give him that much more credit for taking on such an esoteric role. Kudos to him.

Rounders has grown in reputation over the years to the point where a special edition DVD with the likes of Helmuth, Johnny Chan, Chris "Jesus" Ferguson and 2003 WSOP champion Chris Moneymaker providing some excellent and enlightening commentary on the track. If you love this film, it is imperative that you pick up the SE DVD. It will enhance the experience for you and will help you appreciate the film that much more. It is fun and exciting to hear the 4 of them laugh when Mike finally busts KGB using Johnny Chen's methods from his first win in the World Series of Poker. Rounders is a fantastic movie and for those that haven't seen it, you should.

10/10 One of the most under rated films of the last 10 years!

You know what, Dan?

Rounders, despite being a #1 US-hit has NEVER made its way to Germany. Not on VD, not in theatres. Up until today, it hasn't been released over here. Being a poker fan myself, I find that very sad...

Then again, I saw quite a decent poker film last year - Shade.

Never released in Germany??? Even not as a rental release???

True, 'Shade' was a very decent film. Deserved a better theatrical release.

Nope, not released over here at all. A friend of mine now ordered it from UK.

Shae was, indeed, much better than I expected. It was Stallone's best film since probably Copland and the cast was good and so was the story, especially if you're interested in poker. I loved the twist ending too.

Kingpin(1996)- a very underated gem that set the standards for gross out comedy yet the movie has heart and is a sports comedy. I believe it was released in the wrong time when sports movie and gross out comedies didnt do too well. Kingpin is more than a comedy, its also an underdog movie and about redeeming yourself after you have fallen from grace. Sure, Roy Munsen may not have kicked Bill Murray's butt in the end but he found his calling and became a totally new person after the loss

or did he?

L.A. Confidential. True that it made $64.6M, but some of the cast were just getting started to be known back then. Given their draw today, and no Titanic to sweep the awards, it will surely threaten 100M and win at least a couple of more oscars. Yeah, the argument is kind of circular, since L.A. Confidential is a stepping stone to stardom for Crowe and Guy Pierce.

Angel Heart. It came out in 87, and it was way ahead of its time. With the twist ending it had, it would have been bigger today. I think it would have been a cinch to make about 75 mill.

I liked Rounders.

Your analysis is seriously flawed. It is like saying Saving Private Ryan would have been more successful in 2003 versus 1998 because of the Iraq war. Anyway why would somebody pay to go see a movie about poker while there are non-stop poker coverage on many channels for free. If anything it would been even less successful today.

That is completely flawed thinking jb. Poker has exploded today. And because of it there is an all time high in interest. Look at films about hockey, no one gives a damn about hockey in the US and subsequently, most people will not see a film about it, but the interest in football and bseball is high, so people see more movies with those themes. I seriously don;t understand how you can think that because it is on the tube all the time, that no one would pay to see it on TV. Everyone would. So many more people like the game now, that they would love to see a film about it. And your SPR example is void because SPR was about WWII, not the Iraq war.

eww!!

I'm afraid to share the same forum as jb007 now. Him and his flawed reasoning ... eww

Maverick was about poker too and that one did very well. If I remember it was released 4 years before Rounders too. Like someone mentioned if Shade never even got a theaterical release, I dont see how Rounders could do better

Interesting idea of this thread, but think of consequences of what would the old film make if it's produced differently.

Fight Club.

An expensive movie that never made much profit, but make $100m worldwide despite that the studio accepts 50% of the worldwide gross, the movie was released a little bit badly, and the marketing was not enough to get public interest. Moreover, the DVD/VHS made up a little bit of loss, but I'm pretty sure the DVD profit wasn't over the budget cost.

The cast are superb and watchable. Edward Norton is great, Brad Pitt is spectacular in his acting career, and the rest just pulled themselves off.

The story is good, but replayable factor makes me realize it's quite a little bit predictable and melodramatic. However, it brings up quite issues to think about, like attempting to prove a masculine pride by becoming a member of a vicious, violent, vile group.

It received few award honors from non-Oscar ceremonies. It received an Oscar nomination for editing, but it never won for it.

If it were made today, it would be $55-70m.

baumer, you might get in serious trouble with some Red Wings fans in my office for saying that :wink:

NFL Football is the most popular sport in the US. But very few movies about the NFL have been real big hits. Sports movies including poker will keep a big chunk of the female population away. That is why a sports movie has not been a blockbuster and will never be one. (Jerry Maguire was mainly a love story, before somebody brings it up) Plus sports movies perform really poorly overseas.

Waterboy, Rocky movies, A League of Their Own. All blockbusters and all sports movies.

Waterboy is a comedy and was a hit because of Sandler than for being a sports movie. His next movie, Big Daddy, made the same amount of money in the US. Waterboy made 23 million overseas. That probably did not even pay for the prints.

What's with the date of 4-11-05? Did you first put or publish this somewhere else?

On Rounders, I liked the movie bit I forget how much of a problem I had with the final poker scene. Was it believeable?

Rounders would make a lot more today because the interest poker has skyrocketed. With more interest in the game comes more of a possibility that people would want to go the theater to watch a movie about it. That is just common sense.

Spy Game (2001)

This is an excellent movie with good performances by Robert Redford and Brad Pitt. It has an intriguing plot, great score and wonderful locales. It made $62M. Probably would cross $100M if released now.

The movie shows CIA and the government apparatus in bad light. Probably people did not want to see their government in bad light just a few months after 9/11.

If Clash of the Titans was made today, they would of used some kick ass CGI for Medusa, Pegasus, Calibas and the Kraken. Instead we have to put up with Ray Harryahusen's Go-motion that is very outdated these days. If there was one remake that had to be made, it would be Clash of the Titans with today's technology. Casting Andromeda would be hard since the actress who played her was very gorgeous

It wouldn't have made more today. It was a movie that marketed itself as an action flick whereas it was pretty much a political thriller. False marketing ==> disappointing gross.

I absolutely agree on this one. If this made came out last year with the same cast and the same critical acclaim and awards attention, it'd have made $100+ million easily.

Very underappreciated movie.

I say alot of the Early 80's Disney movies. Films like Watcher in the Woods, Trenchcoat, Tex and Something Wicked This Way Comes were all release before the Touchtone era. Since they were stuck with the Walt Disney Productions logo, audiences couldn't take these movies seriously as more adult movies since they released nothing but G-rated schticks in the 70's. Now with Touchtone Pictures, people can now distinguish Disney's more adult movies from the family movies (this is where the Walt Disney Pictures banner came from), and if these mentioned above were releaed after Touchtone was first issued, then they would have done significantly better. I say this because I think these are some of Disney's most underrated movies.

I agree with one. Clash of the Titans is a film that would absolutely benefit from today's audience and CGI advancements.

Well, the remake is, indeed, in works.