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 WoKJ Box Office Game - HELP ME! 
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Post WoKJ Box Office Game - HELP ME!
Note: None of this is final. This is a rough draft. The rules may change. The game may be scrapped. The game may be significantly altered.

I am looking for two things:

1) Look over the game below. Make sure it makes sense. Make sure it is possible. Make sure I haven't screwed anything up. If something is unclear the way it is written, offer a better way in which it could be written.

2) What do you think of the game? Would you rather see it played a different way? I was toying with the idea of making the final two rounds of the tournament be based on wins instead of percent? Opinions are appreciated, though not nessecarrily listened to.

Quote:
WoKJ Box Office Game

You are about to become a contestant in WoKJ's Box Office Game!

About the game:

The game is simple.

WoKJ's Box Office Game relies on weekend box office predictions. Every week contestants will come to http://www.worldofkj.com and enter their predictions for the upcoming weekend. After the weekend actual numbers are released, WoKJ will announce a winner for the weekend.

To win you must submit the most accurate predictions for that week. The contestant with the hightest percentage wins. Every weekly winner will receive two free tickets to a movie via Fandango.

But wait, there's more!

Not only are you competing for the weekly win and the free movie tickets that come with it, but your also competing for a chance to win an even LARGER prize!

WoKJ's Box Office Game runs for 16 weeks. When the 16 weeks end, the game will restart. During this 16 week period there will be 16 weekly winners. All 16 of the weekly winners gain entry into a tournament to compete for an additional prize. Also gaining entry to the tournament will be the 16 players who have the highest average score over the 16 week period. To win entry based on average you MUST play all 16 weeks.

These 32 players will compete in a tournament during the next 16 week period. While playing in the tournament, the 32 players will also be competing for the weekly prizes, as well as entry into the NEXT tournament!

Starting on January 2, 2006, a Monday, you will be able to register to compete in the game. The first weekend predicted will be January 6 to January 8.

Here is what you have to do.

1)Register an account
2)Every week, before the deadline, you will have to submit your predictions. These predictions will be the amount, in millions, that you believe a certain movie will gross for the upcoming weekend. WoKJ will pick the movies you are to predict.
3)Check back after the Weekend Actuals are released and see if you won for that week!
4)After the 16 week period is over, check back to see if you made it into the tournament. Good luck!

About the tournament:

16 contestants will come from weekly winners. 16 contestants will come from the players with the highest average score over the 16 week period. In the event that someone wins more than one week, extra players will be taken via average. If a contestant who wins a week is also in the top 16 players when ranked by average, we will take the 17th place player based on average and so on and so forth.

These 32 players will then be ordered by their best single week percent. If a player only played 13 weeks, we will take the highest percent from those 13. If they only played one week, we will take that week's percentage.

The players will then be sorted into 8 groups of 4 players like thus:

Player A – 98% - Group 1
Player B – 97% - Group 2
Player C – 94% - Group 3
Player D – 92% - Group 4
Player E – 91% - Group 5
Player F – 89% - Group 6
Player G – 87% - Group 7
Player H – 86% - Group 8

Player I – 85% - Group 8
Player J – 84% - Group 7
Player K – 83% - Group 6
Player L – 82% - Group 5
Player M – 81% - Group 4
Player N – 80% - Group 3
Player O – 78% - Group 2
Player P – 75% - Group 1
Player Q – 74% - Group 8
Player R – 73% - Group 7
Player S – 71% - Group 6
Player T – 65% - Group 5
Player U – 64% - Group 4
Player V – 63% - Group 3
Player W – 62% - Group 2
Player X – 61% - Group 1
Player Y – 60% - Group 8
Player Z – 59% - Group 7
Player AB – 58% - Group 6
Player AC – 48% - Group 5
Player AD – 38% - Group 4
Player AE – 28% - Group 3
Player AF – 18% - Group 2
Player AG – 17% - Group 1

Lets now look at group 1:

Group 1:
Player A
Player P
Player X
Player AG

Each player in Group 1 will play the other players of the group twice. The top two players will move on to the next round. Like this:

Week 1:
Player A vs Player P
Player X vs Player AG

Week 2:
Player A vs Player X
Player P vs Player AG

Week 3:

Player A vs Player AG
Player P vs Player X

Week 4:
Player A vs Player P
Player X vs Player AG

Week 5:
Player A vs Player X
Player P vs Player AG

Week 6:

Player A vs Player AG
Player P vs Player X

After the six weeks are up, each player will have a record looking something like this:

Group 1:
Player A – (4-0)
Player P – (2-2)
Player X – (2-2)
Player AG – (0-4)

In this case, player P and X have tied. The first tiebreaker is head to head. In this case, their head to head is also tied at (1-1). The second tiebreaker is the average score over the 6 weeks the group plays together. In the event a player did not play one of the weeks, that player will receive a score of 0 for that week.

Assuming that Player P had a better average percent over the 6 week period, Player A and Player P will advance to the next round.

In the next round players will be seeded from 1 to 16. They will be seeded in the following manner:

Each group will have a player who finishes in first place within the group and a player who finishes in second place within the group. All of the first place finishers will be seeded numbers 1 through 8. The first place finisher with the best percent over the 6 weeks of group play will be seeded number one, the first place finisher with the second best percent over the 6 week period will be seeded number 2, and so on. All of the second place finishers will be seeded numbers 9 through 16. They will also be seeded based on percent.

Once seeded, the players will enter a tournament structured in this fashion:

1
16

7
8

5
12

13
4

3
14

11
6

7
10

15
2

The first round will take place over two weeks. The best average percentage over those two weeks moves on to the second round.

The second round will also take place over two weeks. The best average percentage over those two weeks moves on to the second round.

The third round and the finals will take place over three weeks. The best average percentage over those three weeks will win.

The winner will receive a prize and a new tournament will start the following week!

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:16 am
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Whoa, complex!

Question: Because I'm like 15, and I don't want my parent's mailboxes to be stuffed with random suspicious prizes, would I be able to play just for the sake of it without myself winning the prizes? If I di win, I could choose someone who would get my prizes sent to them instead.

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Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227


Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:28 am
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(23:25:30) DimaKrem: well
(23:25:35) DimaKrem: can you at least alter it a bit
(23:25:44) DimaKrem: where new releases get more weight?
(23:25:52) DimaKrem: that's what i always hated about the derby

Really, if you could work something like that in, where predicting a new release right makes for more points than predicting an older release. Also, maybe assign "difficulty factor", based on the movie. For instance, it's no surprise that HP will gross in the 80-100 range; but how well do you think "Walk the Line" will do? That could be all over the place. Getting Walk the Line right should be worth more than getting HP right.


Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:29 am
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Shack wrote:
Whoa, complex!

Question: Because I'm like 15, and I don't want my parent's mailboxes to be stuffed with random suspicious prizes, would I be able to play just for the sake of it without myself winning the prizes? If I di win, I could choose someone who would get my prizes sent to them instead.


Random suspicious prizes?

I am not the Uni-Bomber! But you can send the prize to whoever you wish. Me included.

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Last edited by Eagle on Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:32 am
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Well I don't know if the older movies should be worth less. In a way it proves your merit to be able to predict those well.

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:32 am
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Eagle wrote:
Shack wrote:
Whoa, complex!

Question: Because I'm like 15, and I don't want my parent's mailboxes to be stuffed with random suspicious prizes, would I be able to play just for the sake of it without myself winning the prizes? If I di win, I could choose someone who would get my prizes sent to them instead.


Random suspicious prizes?

I am not the Uni-Bomber!


They might just think Shack has met some pervy sugar daddy on the Internet that's sending him movie tickets. My parents probably would, lol. But then, I actually do have a sugar daddy sending me stuff. *Pets Loyal*

Anyway, sounds good, Eagle. I kinda got confused when you started talking about groups and players and stuff, but it looks good.

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:34 am
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Maybe the week to week game could be just a normal derby, but the tournament could factor in varying percentages for various movies once it gets to just 16 players left?

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:34 am
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It looks fine...and it's really rather self explanatory....

Every week is the regular derby deal....

Starting at the 17th week, certain players will also be playing "Against" others...right?

It doesnt even matter if they know how the tournament part works, so much, as they're still just playing the regular derby...their predictions just count for a little something extra.

Right?

The only problem, is what if someone wins like, 4 or 5 or 6 times. then you only have 11 seperate "weekly winners" ...would you just take the top 21 average?

maybe make the tournament 8 weekly and 8 top average? how populated do you think thisll be, right of the bat? (course at 8 youre giving out more "special prizes"...)

I dunno.

also, I'm pretty sure they could transfer tickets from Fandango via Email, right?


Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:42 am
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Correct Kypade. Playing the tournament requires nothing extra from the player other than submitting their predictions like normal.

If someone wins 6 times, we will just take more winners based on average.

As for the first 16 week period:

I don't think it will be hard to get at least 32 people to play. In the event that we don't have enough people who play every week to make up the 16 winners, we could always lower the restriction to 15, 14 or 13 weeks to get enough players based on average. But I don't think that will be a huge problem.

And yes I believe you can simply transfer the tickets via fandango. No mailing should be needed for the weekly prizes. See, I'm really not the unibomber!

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:47 am
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well for a tournament it has to be 32 16 8 or 4, right? i wouldnt really think 32 would be a problem....just dunno how big a deal a tournament would be if pretty much everyone gets in...like poker...theres nothing special or fun about getting to the final table when there are like 12 players total...when you start with 200, then its something special. but yeah, im sure it WOULD work...just...yknow


Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:55 am
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Obviously the hope is that there will be far more than 32 entrants.

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:57 am
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I had to read it twice, but I get it. Sounds good, Karl.


Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:59 am
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My opinion on it depends what your goal is. If you are after mainly experienced players then it might work. If you are trying to attract people new to box office guessing then in my personal opinion it is way too complicated.


Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:27 am
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I like the setup of the game. Though would be nice to have some sort of all time chart, one that doesn't reset after 16 weeks. Though, with no bearing on the tournament part, just for reference.

Krem wrote:
(23:25:30) DimaKrem: well
(23:25:35) DimaKrem: can you at least alter it a bit
(23:25:44) DimaKrem: where new releases get more weight?
(23:25:52) DimaKrem: that's what i always hated about the derby

Really, if you could work something like that in, where predicting a new release right makes for more points than predicting an older release.


Maybe 50%-50% for openers-holdovers? I could live with that, even though I feel luck factor is more present that way.

Krem wrote:
Also, maybe assign "difficulty factor", based on the movie. For instance, it's no surprise that HP will gross in the 80-100 range; but how well do you think "Walk the Line" will do? That could be all over the place. Getting Walk the Line right should be worth more than getting HP right.


There are not that much weekends with like this one. Actually, just few per year, so not sure about this. Also, for example, how would you agree on which movie is more difficult than other on weekend with these openers?

The Ice Harvest
In the Mix
Just Friends
Rent
Yours, Mine and Ours

And prolly some expansions...


Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:31 am
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I, for one, don't think we need to tweak the scoring weight of each movie. Holdover predictions are important and part of prediction skills, and there are always weekends where they surprise us.

If we do tweaking, we should do on what movies to predict. A lot of times I don't agree with the choices derby made in choosing one movie over another. Like this weekend, I'd prefer predicting Shopgirl and GNAGL instead of Zorro and Saw II. I don't think it's worthwhile to predict a wide-release movie beyond their second or third weekend because it either gets predictable or becomes a matter of luck of $0.1-0.2M if the gross is small enough. Choose those medium, expanding, interesting movies.


Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:31 am
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Eagle wrote:
In this case, player P and X have tied. The first tiebreaker is head to head. In this case, their head to head is also tied at (1-1). The second tiebreaker is the average score over the 6 weeks the group plays together. In the event a player did not play one of the weeks, that player will receive a score of 0 for that week


Do you mean 0 points or 0 points and 0%? IMO, that player already lost a match-up and 2 points, so there's really no need to hurt his average in the process.

Other than that, I think it looks good.


Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:24 am
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0 points and 0%

The reason this is done:

Assume a player got an insanely high score the first week of their head to head. Say 98%. They could then sit out the next week, meaning they would tie. Now that it goes to tiebreaker, there 98% would automatically win. Because of this missing a week must equate to a 0.

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:11 am
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You might get more useful feedback if you moved this to Box Office Bash and Cinemania, or created duplicates there for a while.


Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:31 pm
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xiayun wrote:
I, for one, don't think we need to tweak the scoring weight of each movie. Holdover predictions are important and part of prediction skills, and there are always weekends where they surprise us.

If we do tweaking, we should do on what movies to predict. A lot of times I don't agree with the choices derby made in choosing one movie over another. Like this weekend, I'd prefer predicting Shopgirl and GNAGL instead of Zorro and Saw II. I don't think it's worthwhile to predict a wide-release movie beyond their second or third weekend because it either gets predictable or becomes a matter of luck of $0.1-0.2M if the gross is small enough. Choose those medium, expanding, interesting movies.


I definitely agree with this paragraph. I for one consider the skills to predict the holdovers just as much as predicting the openers. Openers are more risky, but in the end it comes down to gut feeling with the openers a bit. Holdovers are usually just math and that is where you have to compare patterns to other movies and consider the impact of the openers and all that. I consider it just as important. No tweaking the scores for me.

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:51 pm
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It sounds quite good to me. The only thing is, in order to make it really exciting, qualifying for the second round has to be difficult - and if 32 players make it, I´d say we need around 80-100 players to have, at least, more people out that in. Otherwise the first 16 weeks may be a bit of a bore.

Also, with 16 weeks of quialification phase, plus 6 weeks of groups, 4+6.. It´s 32 weeks. More than six months. It´s quite long. What about...?

8 weeks of qualification. 8 winners + 8 best averages, 16 players on the second round. 4 groups, same routine. Then quarter finals and semifinals and final as you stated. That makes... 20 weeks. Still big, but not that big. And if the game is a blast (Looks like it) and WOM comes out, maybe the second edition can be with 32 players in the second round, etc...

And I´d definitely have holdovers with as much weight as new releases. I think is just fair...

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:19 pm
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Korrgan wrote:

They might just think Shack has met some pervy sugar daddy on the Internet that's sending him movie tickets. My parents probably would, lol. But then, I actually do have a sugar daddy sending me stuff. *Pets Loyal*


:blush:


Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:45 pm
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dar wrote:
It sounds quite good to me. The only thing is, in order to make it really exciting, qualifying for the second round has to be difficult - and if 32 players make it, I´d say we need around 80-100 players to have, at least, more people out that in. Otherwise the first 16 weeks may be a bit of a bore.

Also, with 16 weeks of quialification phase, plus 6 weeks of groups, 4+6.. It´s 32 weeks. More than six months. It´s quite long. What about...?

8 weeks of qualification. 8 winners + 8 best averages, 16 players on the second round. 4 groups, same routine. Then quarter finals and semifinals and final as you stated. That makes... 20 weeks. Still big, but not that big. And if the game is a blast (Looks like it) and WOM comes out, maybe the second edition can be with 32 players in the second round, etc...

And I´d definitely have holdovers with as much weight as new releases. I think is just fair...


It is only 32 the first time.

The first 16 weeks won't have a tournament.

The second 16 weeks would have a tournament based on the 16 weekly winners and 16 average winners from the 16 week's prior.

The third 16 weeks would have a tournament based on the 16 weekly winners and the 16 average winners from the 16 weeks prior. So while the first tournament is going on, there is STILL a weekly game. The people in the tournament are also competing in the weekly game attempting to gain entry to the NEXT tournament. As soon as one tourny ends, another begins.

If we go with this game anyways.

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:13 pm
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sounds awesome to me.

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:23 pm
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Plus, as weeks go on, we're bound to get more and more players.


Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:49 pm
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Eagle wrote:
dar wrote:
It sounds quite good to me. The only thing is, in order to make it really exciting, qualifying for the second round has to be difficult - and if 32 players make it, I´d say we need around 80-100 players to have, at least, more people out that in. Otherwise the first 16 weeks may be a bit of a bore.

Also, with 16 weeks of quialification phase, plus 6 weeks of groups, 4+6.. It´s 32 weeks. More than six months. It´s quite long. What about...?

8 weeks of qualification. 8 winners + 8 best averages, 16 players on the second round. 4 groups, same routine. Then quarter finals and semifinals and final as you stated. That makes... 20 weeks. Still big, but not that big. And if the game is a blast (Looks like it) and WOM comes out, maybe the second edition can be with 32 players in the second round, etc...

And I´d definitely have holdovers with as much weight as new releases. I think is just fair...


It is only 32 the first time.

The first 16 weeks won't have a tournament.

The second 16 weeks would have a tournament based on the 16 weekly winners and 16 average winners from the 16 week's prior.

The third 16 weeks would have a tournament based on the 16 weekly winners and the 16 average winners from the 16 weeks prior. So while the first tournament is going on, there is STILL a weekly game. The people in the tournament are also competing in the weekly game attempting to gain entry to the NEXT tournament. As soon as one tourny ends, another begins.

If we go with this game anyways.


Ok, I see.

I still don´t know if we can get enough players to make the qualification "difficult" enough, though. Cause if we don´t, the real fun won´t start till the tournament does, methinks.

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Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:25 pm
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