This story is wrong on so many levels.


Basically, since prostitution was legalized in Germany, any woman on unemployment can be forced to become a prostitute, otherwise she could lose the unemployment benefits. If you needed one reason to hate living in a welfare state, this would be it.

UPDATE: The story is fake, more details here: http://www.worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopi ... 318#127318

That's BS, and it won't hold for one second in court. If you're on unemployment here and you don't take the first job offered to you, you still get your benefits until the nine months are up.

I'm quite glad they're not playing games with Prosititution there, and do consider it a job instead of shuffling it under the rug. But as soon as the kinks are worked out, it'll be a job like anything else, and rejecting any job doesn't automatically kick one off welfare.

There's too different issues here and they shouldn't be merged. You either don't like welfare programs at all, or you don't think prositution is a profession recognized under the law. I doubt this would be making such headlines if a computer programmer turned down a job in a bakery and was forced off of unemployment.

How does it work here ... say you are unemployed and you dont take up a job that meets your criteria?

How's that BS, if that's what winded up happening in Germany?

The reason it matters so much more over there, is because their unemployment benefits are unlimited, provided there are no jobs available for you. So basically, they can force you to take any job, even being a prostitute. And considering how high the unemployment rate there is (yet another legacy of the welfare state), you often might not have a choice.

Liek the article says - you lose your unemployment benefits.

The story is exaggerated crap, trust me. I know pretty well, how the welfare system works over here and there is no way, you can be forced to do something like that.

Thanks Lecter...talk some sense into him. Holland has unionized prosititution and fine welfare assistance and they're citizens aren't being forced to sell their bodies any more than Thailand. Lets not collapse the two issues, it once again removes all logic from the space and collapses moral indignation with economic programs in a way that gets nowhere on either front.

Are they wrong in saying that if you don't take a job after a year on unemployment, then you can be forced to take any available job, or lose your benefits?

krem .. i mentioned here, in North America.

In the U.S. it depends on the state

but generally, you get 6 months of unemployment insurance, equal roughly to 75% of your salary, capped at a certain point.
If you find a job, your unemployment check will be your old check minus your new salary (obviously it can't be negative) for the remainder of the 6 months. If you go to school full-time, you lose your benefit.

You do have to check in with your coordinator from time to time so that they can make sure you're looking for a job.

Netherlands does not equal Germany. They have different laws.

According to the Hartz IV system (new welfare system in Germany, active since January), you do have to take a job after a year (a year after Hartz IV has started which is next January). However, Within that period of time, you are being sent dozens of offers to different jobs. Certainly, some of them are not pleasing (like working at the airport, carrying luggage), but there are many alternatives. Before Hartz IV most unemployed went for years and years without having to accept jobs or having their welfare cut. I know that because a the father of a friend of mine works for the welfare institution. He told me that many welfare recipients went for 10+ years without being forced to accept a job. There was a certain rule that you have to try and look for a job, but if you get 6 signatures a month from employers that they don't accept you, they leave you alone and keep paying welfare. Obviously, it wasn't too hard to get these signatures. But even this rule wasn't paid much attention to.

The new system, Hartz IV is supposed to be better than that, but it remains to be seen if it works. However, even when the year is over, they don't just send you to a job, they give you a catalogue of jobs available and you have to pick one of them. Usually, it's more than 10 different jobs.

In Germany prostitution has been legalized not too long ago (unlike Holland) and is still considered by many as immoral and definitely not as widely accepted as in Holland. Anyone who has ever been to the downtown of Amsterdam knows how liberal Holland is, in comparison to that, Germany is far right wing, hehe. I am pretty certain no one will force you into prostitution over here.

And what happens when there are no jobs available except for being a prostitute?

but what about after 6 months? What happens then? I know my friend was on welfare here but then after a certain term, she lost it and had nothing cmoming.

If what Lecter said is correct (the one year term minimum), i dont see what the difference is here. you get welfare and if you dont accept a job within a year, you're off it.

and i think what doce was trying to say (correct me if i'm wrong) is that germany may not be netherlands but they're both welfare states right? so its not something thats really wrong with a welfare state system, its how you implement it .. atleast thats what i understood from her statement.

Welfare is not the same thing as unemployment benefits.

You have to qualify to receive welfare, based on your financial situation.

well considering the state has considered prostitution as something not immoral but a legitimate job .... what difference does it make if its prostitution or a dishwasher?

sorry krem, i meant my friend was on unemployment benefits, not welfare ...

Read my reply to Dolce. Prositution is not considered a job that is being offered. Before an available job is offered to the person, this job has to be submitted in the welfare office. However, no brothels submit jobs like this there. Whether it's "officially" legal or not, prostitution is not a widely accepted branche over here and I am willing to bet that most Germans don't even know it's legal.

Oh and of course even in that case you don't have to accept it. You can just say that it doesn't go with your religion and that's it. There is a similar example... As you probably know, there is still drafting in Germany which means that you have to go to army after school or do something alternative (like working in a hospital). However, anyone of Jewish faith doesn't have to do that because it doesn't go with their religion, so they are freed there... (I don't know the details why it is so, but this is how a friend of mine excaped serving in the army, hehe).

There are so many reasons that you can bring up for not accepting one job or another, it's unbelievable This is why the new system won't work well either...

There is no welfare de facto in Germany anymore. Hartz IV comined unemployment benefits and welfare into one It's called "Arbeitslosengeld II" (literally translated: "money for unemployed II")

I'm quoting the article here: "The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse."

Are you saying this is false?

I'm sure you can find ways to avoid being a prostitute and still receiving your benefits. There are loopholes alsmot anywhere as far as the government is concerned (and that goes for any government). But let's assume that the waitress in question was actually trying to go by the book and not look for loopholes.

Well, arsi was asking about the U.S.

One other thing about the U.S. welfare system: you can be employed, and still receive a check from Welfare office.

thats not a very smart thing now, is it?

Well that's because, again, you're qualified based on your financial situation, not on whether or not you have a job.

The whole Welfare system is not smart. It's the modern day Robin Hoodery, only now there is no sheriff to run the looters out of town.

Yes. Seriously, Krem, if you don't believe me, try and ask other Germans on here. This article is ridiculous. I am too tired, sleepy and eshausted to get in a lengthy debate like in the old "account deficit" times.



It's like asking what happens if the sun stops shining tomorrow. Never for a second will it happen that a job in brothel will be the only job available and even then, never for a second will I believe that it will also coincide with the person in concern not being able to find a job within a year. Furthermore, I don't believe that anyone will be forced into a job like this one.

But if it makes you sleep better at night, I'll tell my friend to ask his father about it

I live in a welfare state. The unemployment here is 2,5%, which is significantly lower than in the US. If high employment is a legacy of the welfare state, how come we (and most of Scandinavia) have such low unemployment rates?

Germany's high unemployment has more to do with the aftermath of the reunification than anything else. I believe the unemployment in East-Germany is nearly 20%...