Kerry should "do the right thing" and stop being a lawyer, be a leader, be a man say hey we gave it a great fight but.....
my opinion is actually lowering with this Ohio prayer


Secondly it appears that the Electoral system is a complete joke and I think should go in the dumpster, the last 2 elections have pointed out how outdated it has become

Kerry just conceded!!!


w00t! We won!!!

And thanks to the Democrats for not getting the lawyers involved. That would've been nasty.

John Kerry did the honorable thing :cough: Al Gore :cough:. Republicans have also gained in the House and Senate. Daschle is the first minority leader to lose a re-election bid.

Analysts say that the youth vote was not as strong as they expected and that the dems were dissapointed in that.
So much for vote or die.MTV aint jack dump!

Youths never turn out. The Dems put there hopes on a false god.

I am so proud of kerry conceeding,

I have to wait and see his speach, but if he comes out and says something to the effect of rally behind your president, then I am going to have to say that he has more class than I ever gave him credit for.

KJ

Americans are far too conservative.

It disgusts me greatly.

With this election, the country is going back in time. There will be no moving forward.

Tim

Krem, if I thought this election was won on discourse such as you have provided on these forums over the past few weeks, do not think I would be nearly so traumatized. I mean this in the most respectful way to you as possible. While I may disagree with what you say sometimes, you are clearly well informed, and have taken that information and synthesized very comprehensive and intelligent arguements.

That being said, I don't think that is what happened. I have watched an entire vocabulary be meticulously constructed over the past 3 years that is anti0intellectualism. I have watched playing cards, yes playing cards be used as a form of national awareness. I have heard our president publicly, and proudly may I add, announce his disdain for reading and books. I have seen a man that goes on vacation and talks about his dog playing with armadillos instead of sitting on Kennybunkport lakefront property and reading. I have seen a sharp rise in political discourse that sounds like affirmation of sexual libido, and the re-forming of political power in terms of masculine virility.

I have seen 11 states vote for constitutional ammendments refusing to acknowledge marriage certificates of homosexual couples. Regardless of the fact that such a move neither allows equal rights under the law (mind you these ammendments would not acknowledge a certificate even if the respective religious institution sanctioned it), nor does it allow for religious institutions to conduct themselves in a fashion they themselves see fit. It is short sighted, and actually allows for the government to override a religious institution's practices. I do not think, in light of the above two statements, that anyone took the time to draw out such lengthy discussions around the institutions of marriage I have noticed some members here take the time to do.

I have seen SUV's flaunted while simultaneously decrying oil dependancy. I have seen U.S. citizens clamor that other countries be given the right to vote when a paltry sub-60% still bothered to show up to the ballot sites yesterday. I have seen people who still coach Iraq in terms of U.S. security, and coach it as such in incredibly short-sighted terms.

This president has taken years to develop a national discourse of one-lines, easy-outs, and empowerment through brute strength. I am mostly troubled by the fact that a large population in this country has adopted that new found vocabulary and have made it into their permanent language. Being "intellectual" has been portrayed as lacking leadership abilities and being "French." I do not want to see this country sink into blanket statements of moral righteousness and wanted, dead-or-alive. While I disagreed with Bush Sr., I have to give it to the man for creating a national agenda which we have clearly felt to this day, even after his exit from the office. I find it interesting that he got ousted on a much more minor affair. Perhaps he was not invested in developing a national discourse around hysteria, and it came back to bite him?



Yes. You are right, but for me this is just further dissappointment. I have been critical from the start about Kerry's campaign in the primaries being about "Electability." It leaves the party with nothing after today which we could use as a spring board for a more long term vision. I am disturbed that a man whose record in the senate I am quite proud of could not procur a better push earlier in the game. He was behind in Iowa, scrambled to pull together support, and unfortunately mobilized people in the wrong way. What is left for a party who has spent years, perhaps decades, playing in responses? I have felt for quite sometime that the Republicans really have dealt the "playing cards" and that the Democrats have just shuffled around trying to respond to what they were dealt.

And yes, one of the most upsetting realizations to me is those "cards" are the very same vocabulary I mentioned earlier. Bush has built up an entire language, and the Democrats have just responded using the same words, instead of building their own. To think how quickly this entire country has mebraced that language, including the Democrats, is traumatizing to me.

I do not think Kerry lacked the quality of character, and anyone who used this arguement should take a close look at 2000 and realize how the same language addressing Gore's "stiffness of personality, and his boring discourse" were clearly appropriated for round 2. One could replace "Gore" with "Kerry" and see, yet again that this is one of the idiotic additions to our increasingly simplified national discourse around our leaders. One could also replace "Kerry" with "McCain" and see how the same defamation of military excellence was used two elections in a row as well. That few people could remove themselves enough from the situation to see this is exactly the point I was getting at.

I do not think this election was won on lengthy posts with persuasive arguemnts such as I have seen from some members on this forum. I think, on the whole, it was won by a country that has gotten used to widdling everything down to some simple moral justification and/or some sign of virility and strength. We sure must like our carefully constructed "Cowboy" since we alll know real cowboys and ranch hands are underpaid, under-employed, no benefits, migratory workers.

I will say that Bush Sr. never spoke like this, and chose to cultivate a much more, dare I say it, classy, public persona. And honestly, I preferred it. I do not think anyone, including Cheney, Rice, and Powell, have cared much to enforce this new public image, but they get dwarfed by Jr's extravagant displays of simplicity. You will not see McCain in four years, because by then we're going to like our politicians being men with a language of the lowest common denominator. So perhaps Arnold is not a bad pick, because he knows how to play that game, and could probably change it once in office. I may disagree with some of Arnold's views, and many of McCain's but I still harbor much more respect for them, and how they are trying to address the issues, than our current President. I would have welcomed their election over his any day.

Really, it comes down to the fact that our current president has admitted his disdain for any sort of scholarly pursuit, and has slowly cultivated a culture that has embraced the same public esthetic.

I truly hope that members of this board keep that in mind. I hope we try to continue to have some of the very intelligent and strong debates we have had in the past, because it is only by creating a culture that slows itself down enough to do the research and sythesize a more profound arguement than, "I want my kids to be *secure*" without defining or debating what *security* even is, that we can hope that the next two candidates for office will be able to speak in more than one line cheers and sentences. Keep up the good debates everyone, and lets get Obama into office asap.

-Dolce

I'd like to thank everyone who voted(regardless of who) The election definately didn't turn like I hoped it would John Kerry did not lose this race. The Democratic Party lost this race and is out of touch with the american people. Lost seats in both houses :x If your'e libral today you are an endangered species. America has spoken and our message was not received.
I can't tell you how sick I was , and angry watching the TV coverage last night. WTF was with all the Too close to call bullshit? :evil: When you saw Kerry constantly trailing in those states for hours by thousands up to Hundred thousands, it was obvious he was going to lose. Also did anyone else notice how bias each network was? CNN,CBS,and ABC definately had a libral spin that I had not really noticed before. FOX has always been always be a Conservative hack network, and it seems everyone of the other networks were taking cues from them, except when it came to OHIO. They actually have fireworks and streamers on the crawl screen today Wonder if Kerry had won they would have done the same thing? NBC seemed to be the most fair and balanced but that's still a stretch :wink:
I don't want to hear any Hillary in 08' tripe anytime soon, we need to reevaluate were our party goes from here. And it's going to have to start with the Southern States :!: and work it's way to the midwest. Otherwise we will never win over America's hearts. However we don't need to change so much so that we lose touch with our east coast and west coast supporters. It's going to be tough. But this will be bigger than just the next election and we need to realise that.

Boyfresh, you're right. The progressive wing of the Democratic party HAS in fact become out of touch with the rest of America. Sadly, it was the progressives that dictated much of the public discourse. And Michael Moore has to take credit for most of the animosity geared towards Democrats.

I made a post on my website about that today, and I'll repeat it here.

Arrogance and utter stupidity

These are the reasons why progressives (note: not the Democrats) lost yesterday, and why their cause will never prevail:

Quote:

Why is it that New York, the state that was attacked on 9/11 (and is probably the most in danger of being attacked again) is so decidedly pro-Kerry, but the stupid idiot hick states like Texas and Oklahoma, where there is no chance of a terrorist attack, is so pro bush because of fear of terrorism??

http://dailykos.com/comments/2004/11/3/ ... 27/101#101

Dailykos, if you are not familiar with it, is a political pundetry site that attracts the far-liberal wing of the Democratic party.

I absolutely agree with anyone who says that the Democratic party has lost its way.

I am more stupified (extremely!) by the conservatism of the American people. It is very disheartening and disenfranchising to me, and I don't even live in the USA! I can't even imagine how terrible many Americans feel today about the future of their rights.

Tim

Gun rights seem to be not affected.

Once you have the freedom to bear arms, everything else follows (shamelessly paraphrasing George Orwell).

The democratic party is in sad pathetic shape, I mean honestly Daschle losing is just pathetic.

They should look ahaed to 2012, because I don't seem them getting their act ogether by 2008.

McCain is a really strong candidate, all of the republicans and the democrats I know like an respect him. He's a unifying type of candidate. If McCain runs next time, he certainly has my support, and at would make hm the first republican presidental candidate that I was behind.

Barack Obama is by far the most charmastic and interesting person in the democratic party. He's also a huge long shot to win the Presidency even if he is wel liked, I don;t care if its 2012, 2016, whatever. Congress is one thing, President is awhoel other ballgame.

The democartic party needs to look long and hard, because post Clinton they ahve lacked any real leadership, any real stance on issues...they haven't looked much like party, instead they looked alot like a beaten dog chasing its tail.

well in this end, this wasnt a court ruling, the americans decided this for themselves ... so I cant really feel bad for them .....

They wanted Bush in the end, they got him. Congratulations to the republican party.

I feel bad for the Americans who voted Bush for being naively narrow-minded (the voters and Bush). I truly disrespect people who could vote for what this man stands for, and what many people in the Republican party stand for.

I feel bad for the Americans who didn't vote Bush for having to put up with another 4 years of probably worsening civil rights.

I'll wait to see how it pans out, but it is looking very grim. With such a majority, Republicans will have an easier time getting their legislation passed.

Tim

Timmo don't be dissapointed. Civil Rights is pretty much split up. You either are for it or against it. You should be dissapointed for the people that were for the civil rights that didn't show up. Anyways, thats how different America is. We a religious country and thats when these morals come into place. You could be for Homosexual Marrige or against it. You can be for abortion or against it.

Excuse me, Tim, but I find such condescending tone to be very inappropriate.

Do you truly believe that everybody who voted for Bush did so because they are narrow-minded and uneducated fools? Do you truly believe that everyone who voted for Kerry did so because they're more educated and wordly.

There are very clear differences between Bush and Kerry, and not all of them deal with the "gay" issue. As disgusting as "gay-baiting" by the ultra-right is, I (were I eligible to vote) would not be able in clear conscience to vote for John Kerry and his socialist veep nominee.

The society will turn around about gays; and worse comes to worst, they always have the protection of federalism at their disposal, and are able to move to a different state. However, once the wheels of John/John's platform would be set in motion, America would become just another European country. I know it may appeal to some of the posters here, but certainly not to me.

whatchoo gonna do krem .... just because the republican name gets associated with "conservative", everyone throws a fit about narrowmindedness ...

sadly, in my experience, I've always considered it the other way round ... often found conservatives disapproving but liberals more mocking, challenging and less tolerant to anyone who doesn't share their "so-called" open mindedness, even if you're actions do not influence anyone else ...

Speak on brother. Just because the guy you wanted to win didn't doesn't mean that the people who voted for Bush are stupid. You are arrogant for thinking that if you do.

4 MORE YEARS
4 MORE YEARS

Krem, I'm not just talking about the gay issue. I'm talking about all social and civil issues. From affirmative action to gay issues to hate crimes to abortion.

I don't think all conservatives are uneducated by any means, but I do believe that the vast majority vote the way they do for what I see as the wrong reasons. I bet you that the vast majority of people's decisions on these issues is based on religion - that saddens and, honestly, angers, me greatly. Republicanism is very much not about the individual.

I use such strong words (including in my previous post) to show just how strongly I feel about this issue of what is the base of conservatism. Of course, I'm also extremely disenfranchised by the secondary voting on same-sex marriages/unions and the accompanying recognition/benefits. I am perplexed by the disrespect human beings can have for other human beings, and this manifests itself in the legislation of the Republican government. It all makes me extremely thankful to live in the place where I do.

Tim

Like John Doe, I am retiring my avatar.

John Kerry's campaign truly proved to be a

So I spent most of last night and early this morning just laying in my bed crying my eyes out. This really, truly feels like the end of the world to me. To fight so hard for so long for something you believe so strongly in... and to just have it trampled on in a matter of hours is probably the most disheartening thing one will every likely experience. It breaks my heart that the rest of the people in my country - the people I care enough about to fight for - base their entire judgement on the bible (because that's how Bush won last night). It breaks my heart that my first election had to be this tough and this depressing. It really makes you think twice about getting invovled in politics. Last night, I was seriously considering just ending all of my involvement and association with politics. I've spent the last four years of my life spending money I don't have and voulentering time that I don't have for causes that apparently no one else cares about. It breaks my heart to finally see the fact that I live in a country that is so socially conservative they will vote a person into office that can't use proper english when he speaks. It breaks my heart that liberals now feel like they have to pander to the religious right to win anything in this country. This whole thing just breaks my heart. I'm completely lost right now. I honestly hope that for the good of the country things don't go down the toilet these next four years, but I just can't see that not happening. Abortion will be outlawed. Gays will continue to be treated like lesser human beings. The environment will continue to be raped and pilliage. Young men and women will continue to be slaughtered in a pointless war. Essentially, everything i've fought for and believe in will be trampeled on.

What else am I going to call it?! "difference of opinion"? Please! I am not that pussy-footed, nor do I believe that we need to be that politically correct! I plain out believe that republicans are wrong. Like it or not, Republicans are their leader and their leader is Republicans.

Tim

I am not mad that Kerry didn't win! I'm extremely mad that people would vote for what Bush stands for!

Tim

I usually like to draw out a difference between republican and conservative.

I'm not a fan of republicans either, nor the democrats really .... i wanted kerry to win only cause i wanted bush out really .... to me its all teh same crap ..

Hate republicans all you want but i think its rather retarded to go around calling every conservative person in this world a narrow minded whatever just because your opinion does not match with theirs or because of some stereotypical view of them ...

yea, they feel negatively against gay marriages, gay adoption, abortion but theres a good population of them out there that also keeps these beliefs limited to themselves. I dont say they all do but there are many who do.