You, mister, are the definition of ignorance.

In my language, we don't call it christmas. We call it "jól" which is parallel to the English word "yule". The word jól/yule is derived from the old nordic month of 12 november - 11 december which was called "Ylir".

By the way, did you know that the yule (yes, yule, not christmas) was originally a pagan festival? Here in the north it was to celebrate the coming of the sun. You see, because Scandinavia is so far up north, the winter days are much shorter than the summer days. In December, the sunlight can only be seen for approximately four hours throughout the entire day. But after December the sunlight gradually increases until it is sunlight the entire 24 hours of the day in the summer months. Long before christianity found its way up here, yule was being celebrated because after the harsh winter months, the sun would finally start showing itself again, and life would get better.

Yule was also celebrated in the Roman empire, they called it Saturnalia and it was to celebrate Saturn. But the Roman Catholic Church had the habit of absorbing pagan traditions into Christendom, soon converting this holiday commemorating the birth of the sun god into a ceremony honouring the birth of the son of god, whose actual date of birth, if he even existed, was definetely not 25th December.

Now that you've realised that the yule originated before christianity spread to Europe, and that it is NOT originally a christian festival, the question arises: Should YOU celebrate the yule season? Seeing that you are NOT a pagan, you obviously should not celebrate it, right?

You, mister, are the definition of ignorance.

In my language, we don't call it christmas. We call it "jól" which is parallel to the English word "yule". The word jól/yule is derived from the old nordic month of 12 november - 11 december which was called "Ylir".

By the way, did you know that the yule (yes, yule, not christmas) was originally a pagan festival? Here in the north it was to celebrate the coming of the sun. You see, because Scandinavia is so far up north, the winter days are much shorter than the summer days. In December, the sunlight can only be seen for approximately four hours throughout the entire day. But after December the sunlight gradually increases until it is sunlight the entire 24 hours of the day in the summer months. Long before christianity found its way up here, yule was being celebrated because after the harsh winter months, the sun would finally start showing itself again, and life would get better.

Yule was also celebrated in the Roman empire, they called it Saturnalia and it was to celebrate Saturn. But the Roman Catholic Church had the habit of absorbing pagan traditions into Christendom, soon converting this holiday commemorating the birth of the sun god into a ceremony honouring the birth of the son of god, whose actual date of birth, if he even existed, was definetely not 25th December.

Now that you've realised that the yule originated before christianity spread to Europe, and that it is NOT originally a christian festival, the question arises: Should YOU celebrate the yule season? Seeing that you are NOT a pagan, you obviously should not celebrate it, right?

I think Shad's ownage of Mr. X just broke the record for owing on a message board. Mr. X loses at the internet!!!1!!!11@!!

Shad, as a matter of fact, I have studied Roman History quite a bit and did a research project on Saturnalia

Saturnalia is not yule.

One of the best-known festivals of ancient Rome was the Saturnalia, a winter festival celebrated on December 17–24. Because it was a time of wild merrymaking, gift exchanging and domestic celebrations, businesses, schools, and law courts were closed so that the public could feast, dance, gamble, and generally enjoy itself to the fullest. December 25—the birthday of Mithra, the Iranian god of light, and a day devoted to the invincible sun, as well as the day after the Saturnalia—was adopted by the church as Christmas, the nativity of Christ, to counteract the effects of these festivals.

Yawn yawn yawn. Everyone misses the point by a few grand miles. Christmas IS a time of family, friendships, and giving. But, the term Christmas shouldn't be used, unless one celebrates what the word itself stands for. I don't care what it is you call it, my fucking point was don't call it Christmas, if Christ has nothing to do with your goddamn day.

For the record, no one "served" me.

I was just jokin


*asks for Mr. X's forgiveness

I don't need to forgive you or anyone for anything. The point of a debate IS the debate part. It seems everyone missed my point that the whole family and giving and celebration part has been strung together with Christmas for too long. Christmas is for Christ's birthday. Santa Claus, family, and a time of goodwill is for the Christmas we know, as we have been taught in modern times. Period. My suggestion was a name change, which will never fly, because I mean nothing to nobody. Yet, everyone misses the point as always, and I look like the bad guy. Good job, though. Pick on the guy with the most enemies. He'll never get any support. Lost cause this time, though, as your points were well taken for nothing.

So have I.

Do you think you know better than the Encyclopædia Britannica (probably the most reliable source of information there is) ?

Yawn yawn yawn. Everyone misses the point by a few grand miles. Christmas IS a time of family, friendships, and giving. But, the term Christmas shouldn't be used, unless one celebrates what the word itself stands for. I don't care what it is you call it, my fucking point was don't call it Christmas, if Christ has nothing to do with your goddamn day.

For the record, no one "served" me.

Do you really care THAT much that someone who's not a Chirstian tells someone else who's not a Chirsitan "Merry Christmas"?

I'm just a little riled up over everything, LMR. Don't worry. It's a debate, first and foremost, so I want those to debate. I just didn't like the fact that suddenly as soon as some guy comes up with all the answers to a question I never once asked, everyone jumps down my throat, to say how bad I look. That's not friendly or nice at all, and it sure as hell isn't what a debate is all about. As for enemies, I have enough. They know who they are, cause they're the ones who hate me, even though I don't feel the same way towards them. Why? Well, I got a nice, big list as to why, but I won't bother trying.

I'm Canadian, from a small town. What else am I supposed to do?

I'm Canadian, from a small town. What else am I supposed to do?

Yawn yawn yawn. Everyone misses the point by a few grand miles. Christmas IS a time of family, friendships, and giving. But, the term Christmas shouldn't be used, unless one celebrates what the word itself stands for. I don't care what it is you call it, my fucking point was don't call it Christmas, if Christ has nothing to do with your goddamn day.

For the record, no one "served" me.

So, if someone is atheist, should they be allowed to celebrate Christmas? I say no. You want to look cool by saying there's no God, then take the consequences with it.

How can you celebrate for anything else BESIDES its original intent?

No, nobody has "missed the point". What has happened is that you've changed your position. In your very first post in this thread, you said that in your opinion atheists "should not be allowed to celebrate christmas." When others pointed out how ridiculus your deplorable opinion is, you argued with them.

This is what you said:


You also said:


Well how can you ? I've already shown you that christmas' roots are pagan. Are you pagan? If not, then how can you celebrate said festival?

Do you really care THAT much that someone who's not a Chirstian tells someone else who's not a Chirsitan "Merry Christmas"?

Shad, can you tell me more about your sig?

This is exactly what I am thinking. Seriously, Mr. X. All of your posts in this thread are filled with anger and cuss words and resentment and bitterness. Why are you so upset about this? Why is this such a big deal to you? This has no implication on your life in any way.