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Arafat Declared Dead. (pg. 6)

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bABA Commander and Chef Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!	dolcevita wrote: Bwahahahaha! bABA! Did you change the title of this thread? It's hilarious! Only would would think up something like that. Hehehe. Also, to bABA. I know what you're saying, and Arafat has been around for too long to say he has done nothing. I think you remeber my past posts in that other thread, but I really do think he's just lost power, and that's the problem. He has probably done stuff in the past that was agreeable, unfortunately he weened the babies that later dethroned him. He may have done some good in the past, but he also has backed himself into a corner where he is no longer capable of doing anything and is just pandering to fringe groups right now. I've already said that even if he wanted to do something at this point, no one would listen to him. If he told Hamas not to blow up a bus, they'de laugh at him and do it anyways. He has zero control of the situation. This was not always the case, and perhaps he was more effective at those points in time. But he can't do anything now, and has decided rather than to admit it and step down, or try to do something about it, to continue along his march with clothing only wise people can see. The guy is really butt naked right now and everyone knows it. Its best to step down and let someone else try and give it a go. Wether they will be more or less successful is anyone's guess. -Dolce I swear, i couldnt com eup with anything better!! i know what you mean ...it was time for someone else to lead i guess ... but you know .. its also about symbolism .. i mean one can say that in all his years, there was a time he brought hope to his people ... and well, as long as hes still up there at the top, theres hope, whatever that might be really ... but yea .. he was getting old, senile ....
Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:58 pm

driveaway Angels & Demons Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:59 pm Posts: 262 Location: US	the new headline is a bit weird... aren't we all in between life and death.. and not sure? I kid! _________________ "For my next miracle, I'll be turning water.. into FUNK!"
Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:58 pm

bABA Commander and Chef Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!	HOWZ THAT!!! hmph!
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:00 pm

driveaway Angels & Demons Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:59 pm Posts: 262 Location: US	just playing with ya or you could go with 'nearly dead' as fark reported it! ha _________________ "For my next miracle, I'll be turning water.. into FUNK!"
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:04 pm

Anonymous	How about "Arafat still alive"?
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:07 pm

Bodrul All Star Poster Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:21 am Posts: 4694 Location: Cambridge, England.	bABA wrote: hans wrote: lovemerox wrote: DO you guys, and gals :wink: think this is good? Back to the question - i dont think this a good thing for both sides, if indeed he does die in the next few hours/days/whenever the palastinian people will be pissed and who will they blame for it? so this is not really good. well hans, unless someone sparks a major conspiracy theory like they were in some way making him sick through the compound walls, or spin the whole story and say the israeli govt's tactics deteriorated the health of a man who could have lived more ... I don't see how blame can really exist .. I"m sure there'll be people who'd express anger for the sake of it but ... well they'll think of something, they kept under house arrest for 2 bloody years. Bottom line - people wont be happy
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:07 pm

dolcevita Extraordinary Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table	bABA wrote: dolcevita wrote: Bwahahahaha! bABA! Did you change the title of this thread? It's hilarious! Only would would think up something like that. Hehehe. Also, to bABA. I know what you're saying, and Arafat has been around for too long to say he has done nothing. I think you remeber my past posts in that other thread, but I really do think he's just lost power, and that's the problem. He has probably done stuff in the past that was agreeable, unfortunately he weened the babies that later dethroned him. He may have done some good in the past, but he also has backed himself into a corner where he is no longer capable of doing anything and is just pandering to fringe groups right now. I've already said that even if he wanted to do something at this point, no one would listen to him. If he told Hamas not to blow up a bus, they'de laugh at him and do it anyways. He has zero control of the situation. This was not always the case, and perhaps he was more effective at those points in time. But he can't do anything now, and has decided rather than to admit it and step down, or try to do something about it, to continue along his march with clothing only wise people can see. The guy is really butt naked right now and everyone knows it. Its best to step down and let someone else try and give it a go. Wether they will be more or less successful is anyone's guess. -Dolce I swear, i couldnt com eup with anything better!! i know what you mean ...it was time for someone else to lead i guess ... but you know .. its also about symbolism .. i mean one can say that in all his years, there was a time he brought hope to his people ... and well, as long as hes still up there at the top, theres hope, whatever that might be really ... but yea .. he was getting old, senile .... Yeah, that's a bit my point. Not the old and senile part, even if he was in full control of his faculties (i think that's how you say it) he is just that...a symbol. He stopped having any say in this a long time ago, but has been sticking his finger in every now and then just to try and keep in the game. It has failed miserably. My memory and my opinions are somewhat shaky from when I was so young, so I'm sure osmeone will call me on it, but before Rabin was assasinated there was a relatively stable moment in history there. That takes the work of all sides. So I can't in particular credit one man above the other for that. But that was what? In 1996ish? I was still in early highschool. I think at that time, we were dealing with a different man than we are now. Somewhere in the past 10 years things have definately taken a turn for the worst, and while I blame both sides, and am very critical of Sharon, and previously Netanyahu, and their tactics, that doesn't mean I can't be critical of Arafat too. And it doesn't mean I'm racist and/or unsympathetic. It just means I have eyes in my head, and am approaching the entire situation critically. You already know that I actually expect Israel to shoulder even more responsibilty for this due to the relative stability of its government. Still, that doesn't mean Arafat, and his unknown successor aren't going to get their fair share of the blame form my point of view. -Dolce
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:10 pm

bABA Commander and Chef Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!	Dolce, i think thats the best way of thinking really ... KREM!! LEARN FROM THIS!! oh and Arafat is still alive: wont make sense to those not following this thread ... nor will the current one either!
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:14 pm

bABA Commander and Chef Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!	Arafat health update: Not dead. FILMO wrote: I think a unstable time is coming now. :?
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:14 pm

Anonymous	bABA wrote: Dolce, i think thats the best way of thinking really ... KREM!! LEARN FROM THIS!! Do you know what bias is? ;-)
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:15 pm

bABA Commander and Chef Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!	Krem wrote: bABA wrote: Dolce, i think thats the best way of thinking really ... KREM!! LEARN FROM THIS!! Do you know what bias is? ;-) stuff that you practice :wink:
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:18 pm

Anonymous	bABA wrote: Krem wrote: bABA wrote: Dolce, i think thats the best way of thinking really ... KREM!! LEARN FROM THIS!! Do you know what bias is? ;-) stuff that you practice :wink: I'm only biased against ignorance. SMACKDOWN
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:19 pm

bABA Commander and Chef Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!	Krem wrote: bABA wrote: Krem wrote: bABA wrote: Dolce, i think thats the best way of thinking really ... KREM!! LEARN FROM THIS!! Do you know what bias is? ;-) stuff that you practice :wink: I'm only biased against ignorance. SMACKDOWN How do you live with yourself then Krem?
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:22 pm

dolcevita Extraordinary Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table	Krem wrote: bABA wrote: Dolce, i think thats the best way of thinking really ... KREM!! LEARN FROM THIS!! Do you know what bias is? ;-) Bias towards what may I ask? I consider myself fairly biased when it comes to this. I've got dual citizenship, my family lives there and I am heavily invested in seeing Jews have a secure and safe country they can call their own instead of just sitting around in other countries' ghettos and putting up with the usual historic crap. That doesn't mean I can't do exactly what you proposed above and remove myself enough from the situation to view it in terms of ways I really do think a solution can come of it. And I'm sorry, but part of doing that is assigning responsibilities to both sides of the problem. dolcevita:http://www.worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=944&start=25 wrote: 3. Yes, again I agree with you, but Israel is very tricky. It is a new state (60 years) and I'm sure is pretty much undergoing what the U.S. did 60 years into its founding. The difference is the rest of the area is not 60 years old, and their technology is centuries of compiled information. So while my initial instincts are to think the violence will ride itself out in much the same way it did in places "founded" in the 1700's, now I'm not so sure. So, questions about dealing with violence pertaining to Israel are very tricky. As you know, I don't really mean that in a condescending tone, I'm just thinking out loud right now. I do think Israel has to withdraw from certain areas, and unfortunately the "wall" idea that was being kicked around for awhile is useless, and just reminds me of check-point charlie. It will biuld hostility. Few areas have yet to handle border issues (when the two nations hate eachother) that we can use as case studies. Its not like we can just peek on over to India/Pakistan and say, "Well there's someone who got it right that we could imitate." Mexico/U.S.A? Not really. And even then, the religious resentment, etc, is really not nearly as agressive. So, I still don't know how to handle it. I like to think Rabin was well on his way, but I was also 15 when he was shot, so I know I've been fed alot of sweet nostalgia that may or may not be true about his policy. I like to hope it was true. I still thinking passing over Perez at that crucial moment was a big faux pas. I don't know what the hell Israeli's were thinking when it was actually an Israeli who shot him. I think people forget that. My father used to joke that Israel imploded the minute they didn't have an enemy. Its not funny. The Conservative orthodox could get along with the reform only when they needed to unite against a common enemy. The minute that threat wasn't present, some orthodox goes and shoots the prime minister for corrupting Jewish values or something. There have been a series of mistakes since, then. Barak was seriously willing to give it all away, to the point where his own people got resentful, just to end it. Sharon walking into Jerusalem and planting the Israeli flag on the Mosque was pretty threatening, aggressive, and idiotic, and, lets not forget, kicked off the intifada. I have alot more to say about this. But, to cut Arafat some slack, he's corrupt as hell and I can't stand him, but I don't pay him to much attention at this point because I honestly think he stopped having any control over the situation years ago. He could have tried to fight it at a time when he did have more control, but he nurtured the groups that now wouldn't pay him any heed if he called for a stop to fighting anyways. He dug his own grave. Now he can't make that call, because the minute all these organizations don't listen to him, it'll just be a visual and symbolic indication of how far removed he actually is from any minute form of control. Instead he's thrown in his bag with them, but is still, not even second fiddle. He might be the understudy to the fourth back-up fiddle or something. But I won't say at a much earlier stage he wasn't responsible for backing himself into that position. That leaves Israel, and currently, Sharon. Say what you will, but he has power. The army will listen to him. The same thing can be said for American/British/U.N troops, whatever. These are institutions which will hold themselves in check if their respective authorities tell them too. It unfortunately puts alot more of the responsibility on those countries than they should otherwise have. It should be 50/50, but in light of Israel's relative stability and Palestine's relative instability, Israel is going to have to shoulder alot more of the responsibility. I am only critical of Israeli actions becaus eI know I can be, and because there is enough of a progressive system set up in which this kind of criticism and discourse has a place and a potential effect on the situation. I want to see Israel continue on, and continue on in a healthy fashion. It is not healthy there now. When I went to my grandfather's funeral in Tel Aviv a few years ago it was horrible. The problems getting on the plane (it was alast minute ticket of course) were insurmountable, ocnsidering I even spoke Hebrew to the flight workers. EL AL was placed in a special seperate, glass encompassed terminal with armed security at its entrance at Fiumicino airport. And that was before 9/11, but after the first uprising. Even then, Tel Aviv was a mess, Israel has lost alot of investment from companies and individuals, the houses were incredible delapitated, the main fountain at dizingoff center didn't even run anymore. No one was walking in the streets or sitting in the restaurants and cafes. Unemployment has gotten very high, and everything just seemed really down. Now, my parents just went back for my grandmother's funeral last year, and say its even ten times worse. I think its in Israel's best interest to pick up that slack and shoulder more responsibility because unfortunately, they really suffer if they don't. Now you tend to think that that means being more aggressive about bulldozing half of gaza, and that Hamas is now immobile. I tend to think that it is just redistributing those left resentful to the larger and wealthier organizations. Hamas was never the big international player was it? I'm asking, I'm not sure. So while he may have made them lose power (the battle) in the long run Al Qaeda (as an example) may now have more power in which to mobilize resentment, poverty, and malaise towards thier own more long-term goals (the war). Its a win the battle, lose the war tactic as far as I can tell. Hamas may be immobile now, but honestly...so are Tel Aviv anf Haifa. -Dolce
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:25 pm

Anonymous	bABA wrote: Krem wrote: bABA wrote: Krem wrote: bABA wrote: Dolce, i think thats the best way of thinking really ... KREM!! LEARN FROM THIS!! Do you know what bias is? ;-) stuff that you practice :wink: I'm only biased against ignorance. SMACKDOWN How do you live with yourself then Krem? I don't. I just live. My other self lives in a parallel universe.
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:32 pm

Anonymous	dolcevita wrote: Krem wrote: bABA wrote: Dolce, i think thats the best way of thinking really ... KREM!! LEARN FROM THIS!! Do you know what bias is? ;-) Bias towards what may I ask? I consider myself fairly biased when it comes to this. I've got dual citizenship, my family lives there and I am heavily invested in seeing Jews have a secure and safe country they can call their own instead of just sitting around in other countries' ghettos and putting up with the usual historic crap. That doesn't mean I can't do exactly what you proposed above and remove myself enough from the situation to view it in terms of ways I really do think a solution can come of it. And I'm sorry, but part of doing that is assigning responsibilities to both sides of the problem. Dolce, I was referring to Arsi's bias towards the opinion he agreed with more ;-) And my answer is STILL forthcoming. But to answer the "both sides" argument - I feel it's been tried and tried again, to no avail. As you mentioned yourself, Arafat himself refused the 1999 peace deal; that alone should make him be accountable more than anyone else involved in the process.
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:35 pm

dolcevita Extraordinary Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:24 pm Posts: 16061 Location: The Damage Control Table	Krem wrote: dolcevita wrote: Krem wrote: bABA wrote: Dolce, i think thats the best way of thinking really ... KREM!! LEARN FROM THIS!! Do you know what bias is? ;-) Bias towards what may I ask? I consider myself fairly biased when it comes to this. I've got dual citizenship, my family lives there and I am heavily invested in seeing Jews have a secure and safe country they can call their own instead of just sitting around in other countries' ghettos and putting up with the usual historic crap. That doesn't mean I can't do exactly what you proposed above and remove myself enough from the situation to view it in terms of ways I really do think a solution can come of it. And I'm sorry, but part of doing that is assigning responsibilities to both sides of the problem. Dolce, I was referring to Arsi's bias towards the opinion he agreed with more ;-) And my answer is STILL forthcoming. But to answer the "both sides" argument - I feel it's been tried and tried again, to no avail. As you mentioned yourself, Arafat himself refused the 1999 peace deal; that alone should make him be accountable more than anyone else involved in the process. Oh oops. Sorry I bit your head off about that. And yes, 1999 was Arafat's fault, but now that he's out of there I think its time Sharon put the bulldozers and snipers to rest and try negotiating with whoever gets the position next. I am really not a big fan, reasons of which I mentioned above, of what Sharon is doing right now. -Dolce
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:51 pm

Anonymous	dolcevita wrote: Krem wrote: dolcevita wrote: Krem wrote: bABA wrote: Dolce, i think thats the best way of thinking really ... KREM!! LEARN FROM THIS!! Do you know what bias is? ;-) Bias towards what may I ask? I consider myself fairly biased when it comes to this. I've got dual citizenship, my family lives there and I am heavily invested in seeing Jews have a secure and safe country they can call their own instead of just sitting around in other countries' ghettos and putting up with the usual historic crap. That doesn't mean I can't do exactly what you proposed above and remove myself enough from the situation to view it in terms of ways I really do think a solution can come of it. And I'm sorry, but part of doing that is assigning responsibilities to both sides of the problem. Dolce, I was referring to Arsi's bias towards the opinion he agreed with more ;-) And my answer is STILL forthcoming. But to answer the "both sides" argument - I feel it's been tried and tried again, to no avail. As you mentioned yourself, Arafat himself refused the 1999 peace deal; that alone should make him be accountable more than anyone else involved in the process. Oh oops. Sorry I bit your head off about that. And yes, 1999 was Arafat's fault, but now that he's out of there I think its time Sharon put the bulldozers and snipers to rest and try negotiating with whoever gets the position next. I am really not a big fan, reasons of which I mentioned above, of what Sharon is doing right now. -Dolce He will have to. About two years ago Sharon made a deal with the U.S. that he does not have to neogtiate with Arafat anymore, because he was a proven supporter of terrorists. With Arafat gone, he would have to get back to the negotiations table.
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:54 pm

Coasterman2002 Indiana Jones IV Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:23 pm Posts: 1010 Location: New Yawk	Ugh this really does piss me off that the media is basically praising him and following his every move...they think hes just a calm man who hasnt done anything bad in the past Some of the things he has done 1. pioneered Airline hijackings 2. god father of terror 3. villages of Christians massacred in Lebanon 4. 1972, 5 Arab Terrorists under Arafat slaughtered 11 unarmed Israli athelets and a german officer in the olympics 5. executed American Ambassador in Sudan 6. started the Civil War in Lebanon 7. 10,000 Christians slaughtered in Damour 8. Arafats army raped young girls, chopped off their breasts 9. Arafat gave 800 dollars to each of 15 suicide Bombers to kill themselves in 2001 10. Funded Ra'ad Karmi, commander of the Tanzim in Tulkarm, on September 19, 2001...he was on the top 10 most wanted at the time 11. Funded 12 more Tanzim' terrorists on January 7, 2002 12. Under Arafat's list Mansur Selah Sharim, One palensteanian suicide bomber killed 6 isrealis 13. led out the attacks of matyrs Al-Aqsa Brigades in Tulkarm 14. In 1997, Arafat personally met with the Hamas and other militint groups and gave them the "Green light" to go forth with terrorist attacks and sadly the media wants us to praise this guy for nothing.....just because he hates jews as well as the media we should hate him....hell no _________________ Michael Savage's "The Savage Nation" On Radio Monday through Friday 8pm-11pm (Eastern Time) Liberalism is a Mental Disorder - BUY THE BOOK NOW!!! On New York Times Best Seller List 9 Weeks in a Row
Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:01 pm

bABA Commander and Chef Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!	Krem, ofcourse I am bias towards it not because I like it but because I believe that to be true. I would expect you to agree with the person as well if you thought they were correct as well .. unless you're like ... really weird!!
Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:28 pm

Anonymous	BTW, I was reminded of an old joke: One day, Arafat was visiting a fortune teller, who carefully traced his lifeline. "I have strange news," she says. "You will die on a major Jewish holiday." Arafat, amazed, muses on the vagaries of fate that would, after the life he'd lived, have him dying on a Jewish festival. "Mr. Chairman," the fortune teller replies, "any day you die is a major Jewish holiday."
Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:59 pm

rusty rustiphica Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:59 pm Posts: 8687	Krem wrote: BTW, I was reminded of an old joke: One day, Arafat was visiting a fortune teller, who carefully traced his lifeline. "I have strange news," she says. "You will die on a major Jewish holiday." Arafat, amazed, muses on the vagaries of fate that would, after the life he'd lived, have him dying on a Jewish festival. "Mr. Chairman," the fortune teller replies, "any day you die is a major Jewish holiday." Hehe that's a good one. But back on a more serious note. Rusty is happy that's he going. It's sad to see anybody die but at least there will be change and might give way for negotiating with Israel. But I also see how many people are plotting to get Arafat's job right now. Bloody times will come and hopefully the leader that emerges is more wanting for negotiations then doing little to nothing against suicide bombers.
Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:10 pm

Bodrul All Star Poster Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:21 am Posts: 4694 Location: Cambridge, England.	Arafat is dead (i think) this site claims : http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-11/07/article05.shtml no updates on any other news networks
Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:33 pm

rusty rustiphica Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:59 pm Posts: 8687	I'd rather wait til more then 1 website has reported this. But if so maybe there's a chance of peace.
Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:39 pm

Bodrul All Star Poster Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:21 am Posts: 4694 Location: Cambridge, England.	why do you say that
Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:46 pm
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