Proof of what? You can't be found guilty if you didn't do anything illegal, apparently gang raping a woman with village authority's support isn't actually illegal. The point is the court is going to have to try to revisit older laws about broad human rights, which is a fine start, but that actually requires the courts "using" this case as an example regardless (in order to expand a previously exisiting law to include these situations) so unless the court is going to be 1000% "technical" (sorry, I can't think of a better way to describe it) than all of these people, and future ones will get off.

Battery, assault, etc. are also legal in Pakistan? Somehow I doubt it.

And if they are, then what's the point of having a court to begin with? I say then it's high time ordinary people in Pakistan rebel then.

And I speak for the country I come from. I've lived in the city I'm willing to return to anyday in fear or guys like this .. and the authority itself that should be catching them. Pakistan's problem is 2 fold. The same people commiting the crime control the govt as well. The govt is just as currupt as well (not in passing laws but allowing others to influence their vote for personal gains). But please, go live there for a few years and maybe you'd see my point of view. These people commiting all these atrocities ALWAYS freaking walk. Always do. If you know the right people, or no the people who know the right people, you're free. Unless the ones you're up against know the right people do. In those cases, things dont usually go to court, they're decided by kidnapping, breaking of knee caps and then negotiations and a mutual understanding. us little guys, we suffer the brunt of it at the end of the day. Sad part is, the major atoricities are always carried out by someone who has the influence, whether its in a village, a town, city or at a national level.

Krem, i understand what you're saying .. i really do ... but seeing how my country has .... i was happy with what happened in the courtroom in 2002.

Also, we are speculating here the decision was influenced by the media. There is all the evidence there for a conviction and yes, rape is punishable by death. chances that this was not decided by media are pretty high (specially in light of the fact that the conviction is overturned). The chances of the bad guys trying to influence the courts in that country is really high based upon how I've seen the law and trials carreid out there. Dolce, i never said there aren't rules for rape, i said the law is not enforced everywhere and some tribal areas (of which we have many) or fuedal comminuties make their own).

Huh? I lost you on that last statement? You mean pull a Ukraine? :wink:

This conv. will have to be continued after I get back from "teh movies"

Are they legally allowed to make their own laws? Where does their jurisdiction end and the national law kick in? If its just a question of enforcement, I'm not as worried, but I'm more interested in knowing if these villages make their own rooms because they're just not worried about the law "getting" them, or if they really are authorized to make their own? Cause if so, thats going to become a huge issue in this trial.

What I mean is, if there is no real justice system, then why are people get all uppity about it? Overthrow the government, and then put in a real court.

Dont know if you were joking or not but according to me, that is sadly, a quick solution. things are improving in some ways over there and in some ways, they're becoming worse. The biggest problem there is education (and i dont mean learning to read and right) .. i mean real education ... knowing whats wrong and whats right and more importantly, "why" ... knowledge .. .information ... thats what keeping the country down and the people that this benefits make sure it remains that way. An internal revolution inside the country is an option i think exists.

depends. and its also very tricky to answr.
I forget the acronym .. i think its Federally administered tribal areas... i'm not sure. I've been out of the country for too long now. They have a sort of self rule and FATA (yea, i think i got it right) is one specific region of this country. They do what they want, with the govt just over seeing it. I dont know at what level the govt has a right to step in but i think for most situations, they dont.

There are villages all over balouchistan. I doubt they recognise the country law and have their own. Once again, unless something explodes in the media (which it rarely does), the govt doesn't concern itself with them.

Then there are villages with influence. They have their own rules and laws as well .... the govt laws have a say over them but because they have control over a certain influencer, the govt is advised to keep away if the outcome will be unfavorable.

in Islam, there are 4 levels of law. Please remember that in pakistan, while minority rights are recognised and also exempted from certain things only valid for the muslim population, there is no seperation of govt and religion per say.

First is the Quran
Second is Haddith (Prophet's sayings)
Third is the local council
4th is your own judgement.

The Quran and haddith are broad. They're not specific (cause Islam allows itself to be flexible in certain different scenarios. The loop hole created though is that in situations where a proper decision cannot be made using the 2, the decision making power goes to the people in charge of the welfare of a certain community. We've essentially created a conflict of interest here. While the govt might have laws, so does the community. and even if they contradict each other, the govt law fr various reasons cannot just come and disrespect the comminuty law like that (even if tis wrong). Thats why I was never for sentencing these guys to death. Ass gruesome as these things sound, its not their fault for the t ype of crimes they commited. Most of these people are illiterate and recognise only their own laws. I'm sure they still in their heads think they're right cause off the way they were brought up. A lot of duedal lords do what they do because they've been actually lead to believe thats the way they're ALLOWEd to live.

i never got interested in politics till i moved here. You guys should speak to my dad more (very very strong political stance on issues he has) about pakistan. hes in a much much better position than i ever will be. and i may also be providing you with some legal information or some social information that may be incorrect.

Well ... the govt .. has been .. overthrown 4 times now \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

not be the people though. though i remember on 3 of those occasions, the people distributed sweets across the towns!!!