Should atheists celebrate Christmas? (DEBATE THREAD)
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lovemerox
Forum General
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:16 pm Posts: 6499 Location: Down along the dixie line
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Shad wrote: Bleh. This thread is total crap. Mr X, it's good though that you don't want to ban atheists from celebrating christmas anymore, like you did back on page 1. Now you just want to ban them from using the name "christmas". Hopefully you'll change your mind about that too after another 4-5 pages. 
I for one thought you made some good points
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:23 pm |
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Mister Ecks
New Server, Same X
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:07 pm Posts: 28301 Location: ... siiiigh...
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Shad wrote: Bleh. This thread is total crap. Mr X, it's good though that you don't want to ban atheists from celebrating christmas anymore, like you did back on page 1. Now you just want to ban them from using the name "christmas". Hopefully you'll change your mind about that too after another 4-5 pages. 
:? You did make good points, Shad, and I'm glad you did. So explain why you have to insult my intelligence by saying this thread is total crap. And who the hell are you, anyway?!
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:24 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Shad, can you still elaborate on your sig? It's hilarious 
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:26 pm |
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Shad
Angels & Demons
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:19 pm Posts: 233 Location: Iceland
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Mr. X wrote: Shad wrote: Bleh. This thread is total crap. Mr X, it's good though that you don't want to ban atheists from celebrating christmas anymore, like you did back on page 1. Now you just want to ban them from using the name "christmas". Hopefully you'll change your mind about that too after another 4-5 pages.  :? You did make good points, Shad, and I'm glad you did. So explain why you have to insult my intelligence by saying this thread is total crap. And who the hell are you, anyway?!
Insult your intelligence? It was you who insulted me. I log on, enter this thread, and see you saying that you believe I don't have the right to celebrate a festival I've celebrated every year since I was born. And you base this vile opinion on inaccurate facts that have been rebuffed many times in this thread. It is your opinion on this matter that I find to be ridiculus and yes, total crap.
_________________ "Lick me in the arse, quickly, quickly. Lick my arse beautifully, really clean. Lick it, that's an oily desire. It's only good smeared with butter. Lick me, lick me!"
~ Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, "Leck mich am Arsch", K231, Vienna, 1782
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:34 pm |
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wertham
Wall-E
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:47 pm Posts: 863
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Shad wrote: You know what they say, aren't all geniuses mad? 
Thanks for giving me an idea for the House of Conspiracies:
The Masonic Mozart: Music That Conquered the World

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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:35 pm |
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Mister Ecks
New Server, Same X
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:07 pm Posts: 28301 Location: ... siiiigh...
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Shad wrote: Mr. X wrote: Shad wrote: Bleh. This thread is total crap. Mr X, it's good though that you don't want to ban atheists from celebrating christmas anymore, like you did back on page 1. Now you just want to ban them from using the name "christmas". Hopefully you'll change your mind about that too after another 4-5 pages.  :? You did make good points, Shad, and I'm glad you did. So explain why you have to insult my intelligence by saying this thread is total crap. And who the hell are you, anyway?! Insult your intelligence? It was you who insulted me. I log on, enter this thread, and see you saying that you believe I don't have the right to celebrate a festival I've celebrated every year since I was born. And you base this vile opinion on inaccurate facts that have been rebuffed many times in this thread. It is your opinion on this matter that I find to be ridiculus and yes, total crap.
Wow, thanks a lot, Shad. Not only do you insult me completely, but you throw out any relevance you had in your posts by stooping to saying that my opinions are ridiculous and total crap, because I don't agree with you. And people thought I was a bad debator?
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:37 pm |
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Shad
Angels & Demons
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:19 pm Posts: 233 Location: Iceland
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Dr. Lecter wrote: Shad, can you still elaborate on your sig? It's hilarious 
I already have. It's on page 7 in this thread I think.
_________________ "Lick me in the arse, quickly, quickly. Lick my arse beautifully, really clean. Lick it, that's an oily desire. It's only good smeared with butter. Lick me, lick me!"
~ Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, "Leck mich am Arsch", K231, Vienna, 1782
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:37 pm |
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DP07
The Thirteenth Floor
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:26 am Posts: 15553 Location: Everywhere
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Ok, that settles it. There will be a new holiday: God Non-Existence Day, and it will just happen to fall out on December 25th of each year.
Although personally as a athiest who was raised jewish, I'll celebrate 8 days of "God Non-Existence Day" and it will happen to be in early Dcember this year, although it will fuctuate on the calendar from year to year.
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:46 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Shad wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: Shad, can you still elaborate on your sig? It's hilarious  I already have. It's on page 7 in this thread I think.
You can get lost pretty fast in this thread, hehe.
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:46 pm |
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Shad
Angels & Demons
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:19 pm Posts: 233 Location: Iceland
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Dr. Lecter wrote: Shad wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: Shad, can you still elaborate on your sig? It's hilarious  I already have. It's on page 7 in this thread I think. You can get lost pretty fast in this thread, hehe.
So, has this changed your opinion on Mozart ?
Have you seen the movie Amadeus?
_________________ "Lick me in the arse, quickly, quickly. Lick my arse beautifully, really clean. Lick it, that's an oily desire. It's only good smeared with butter. Lick me, lick me!"
~ Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, "Leck mich am Arsch", K231, Vienna, 1782
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:54 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Shad wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: Shad, can you tell me more about your sig?  Haha, yes I can. In 1782, when Mozart was 26 years old, he composed two canons and wrote the lyrics for them himself. He named the canons "Leck mich im Arsch" (Lick my arse) and "Leck mir den Arsch fein recht schon sauber" (Lick my ever so clean arse). He never published them but after he died his wife, Constanze, sent them to a publisher but said that their texts would have to be altered because they were "unruly." These canons were of course incredibly vulgar, especially for that time. Here is a part of them: "Leck mire den Arsch recht schon, fein sauber lecke ihn, fein sauber lecke, leck mire den Arsch. Das ist ein fettigs Begehren, nur gut mit Butter geschmiert, den das Lecken der Braten mein tagliches Thun. Drei lecken mehr als Zweie, nur her, machet die Prob' und leckt, leckt, leckt. Jeder leckt sein Arsch für sich". Maybe you can translate, Arthur?  In another canon, Mozart says good night with an insult in five languages, and then ends by saying "Sleep tight, and stick your ass in your mouth". Because of some reason, these canons are almost never played and they have only once been recorded on a CD to my knowledge, but that CD is long unavailable.  When the complete collection of Mozart (it was well over a hundred of CDs) was released a couple of years ago, the only pieces by him that were left out were the aforementioned canons. Hmm, I wonder why?  There have been theories that Mozart had tourettes disease, it's a disease that can make you swear constantly and get moments of uncontroled immatureness. It's just a theory though. Have you seen the movie Amadeus? While that movie is mostly fictional, the way Mozart's character is portrayed may have had some basis in reality. You know what they say, aren't all geniuses mad? 
Every day you can learn something new and this sure was interesting, even though almost unbelievable
I haven't seen Amadeus yet, even though I've planned on it for a long time. But seriously, these canons are....out-of-this-world hilarious. It's worse than what rappers write in their lyrics nowadays
By the way the second canon "Leck mir den Arsch fein recht schon sauber" is actually translated "Lick my arse ever so well properly and clean".
As for the canon itself it goes like this more or less:
Lick my arse ever so properly, lick it well clean, lick well clean, lick my arse. It is greasy desire, only well smeared with butter, since the licking of roasted is my daily doing. Three lick more than two, come here, taste it and lick, lick, lick. Everyone licks his own arse for himself.
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:57 pm |
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Shad
Angels & Demons
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:19 pm Posts: 233 Location: Iceland
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Dr. Lecter wrote: Every day you can learn something new and this sure was interesting, even though almost unbelievable  I haven't seen Amadeus yet, even though I've planned on it for a long time. But seriously, these canons are....out-of-this-world hilarious. It's worse than what rappers write in their lyrics nowadays  By the way the second canon "Leck mir den Arsch fein recht schon sauber" is actually translated "Lick my arse ever so well properly and clean". As for the canon itself it goes like this more or less: Lick my arse ever so properly, lick it well clean, lick well clean, lick my arse. It is greasy desire, only well smeared with butter, since the licking of roasted is my daily doing. Three lick more than two, come here, taste it and lick, lick, lick. Everyone licks his own arse for himself.
I just did a google search and found two sites for you if you want to educate yourself further on this very interesting subject
http://www.tourettes-disorder.com/mozart.html
http://www.mozartforum.com/Library%20Ar ... annons.htm
_________________ "Lick me in the arse, quickly, quickly. Lick my arse beautifully, really clean. Lick it, that's an oily desire. It's only good smeared with butter. Lick me, lick me!"
~ Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, "Leck mich am Arsch", K231, Vienna, 1782
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:10 pm |
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Shad
Angels & Demons
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:19 pm Posts: 233 Location: Iceland
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Mr. X wrote: Wow, thanks a lot, Shad. Not only do you insult me completely, but you throw out any relevance you had in your posts by stooping to saying that my opinions are ridiculous and total crap, because I don't agree with you. And people thought I was a bad debator?
You may well be a good debater, I wouldn't know, I've not read many of your debate posts. But even the greatest of debaters would have a hard time constructing a good treatise if they had to work from such a ridiculus, total crap viewpoint. 
_________________ "Lick me in the arse, quickly, quickly. Lick my arse beautifully, really clean. Lick it, that's an oily desire. It's only good smeared with butter. Lick me, lick me!"
~ Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, "Leck mich am Arsch", K231, Vienna, 1782
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:13 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Shad wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: Every day you can learn something new and this sure was interesting, even though almost unbelievable  I haven't seen Amadeus yet, even though I've planned on it for a long time. But seriously, these canons are....out-of-this-world hilarious. It's worse than what rappers write in their lyrics nowadays  By the way the second canon "Leck mir den Arsch fein recht schon sauber" is actually translated "Lick my arse ever so well properly and clean". As for the canon itself it goes like this more or less: Lick my arse ever so properly, lick it well clean, lick well clean, lick my arse. It is greasy desire, only well smeared with butter, since the licking of roasted is my daily doing. Three lick more than two, come here, taste it and lick, lick, lick. Everyone licks his own arse for himself.I just did a google search and found two sites for you if you want to educate yourself further on this very interesting subject http://www.tourettes-disorder.com/mozart.htmlhttp://www.mozartforum.com/Library%20Ar ... annons.htm
Thank you! I am done reading the second and reading the first right now. Looks like Mozart was a more interesting personality that I figured before. As far as music goes, though, I prefer Beethoven. That, however, might be biased by the fact that I live n the city of his birth, hehe.
Oh and that is priceless:
"Yesterday, though, we heard the king of farts/ It smelled as sweet as honey tarts/ While it wasn't in the strongest of voice/ It still came on as a powerful noise."

_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:18 pm |
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Box
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:52 am Posts: 25990
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Best part of this thread is Shad's quote.*
I've read Amadeus the play, I haven't seen the film though, but it is based on it, so they are quite close (the screenplay was written by the playwright, Peter Shaffer, as well).
I've known about this aspect of Mozart's character for quite some time now.
As far as I'm concerned, the fact that he did have a naughty and vulgar side makes me like him even more.
*maybe I should re-phrase that: the ONLY good part...
Btw dolcevita, thank you for responding to my post. Perhaps we can move the discussion somewhere else, maybe the lit forum? I'll be extremely busy for the next few weeks, but I would love to pursue that discussion further.
P.S.,
Peter Shaffer is in my opinion one of the best living playwrights we have right now. I strongly recommend both Amadeus and Equus, which was also turned into an Academy-Award nominated film. The plays are superb.
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:24 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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box_2005 wrote: *maybe I should re-phrase that: the ONLY good part...
You didn't like my "token spam post"?

_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:26 pm |
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Shad
Angels & Demons
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:19 pm Posts: 233 Location: Iceland
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See the movie people! It's one of my favorites. The performances are superb, I think it's the only time in the history of the Academy Awards that two actors from the same film have been nominated in the best leading actor category. The sets are terrific, the music, the direction, everything.
Watching the film makes you feel that 1984 was one of those rare years when an oscar sweep was actually deserved. Amadeus was the best film by far.
_________________ "Lick me in the arse, quickly, quickly. Lick my arse beautifully, really clean. Lick it, that's an oily desire. It's only good smeared with butter. Lick me, lick me!"
~ Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, "Leck mich am Arsch", K231, Vienna, 1782
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:36 pm |
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Mister Ecks
New Server, Same X
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:07 pm Posts: 28301 Location: ... siiiigh...
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Shad wrote: Mr. X wrote: Wow, thanks a lot, Shad. Not only do you insult me completely, but you throw out any relevance you had in your posts by stooping to saying that my opinions are ridiculous and total crap, because I don't agree with you. And people thought I was a bad debator? You may well be a good debater, I wouldn't know, I've not read many of your debate posts. But even the greatest of debaters would have a hard time constructing a good treatise if they had to work from such a ridiculus, total crap viewpoint. 
... Not even going to start again with you, Shad. Agree to disagree? I do. 
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:11 pm |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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rusty wrote: Atheists don't deserve to celebrate christmas. It's a religious holiday and if he (or she) doesn't understand the fact of the religious factor in christmas (or any other religious holiday that he (or she) seems to celebrate) then screw off to em.
Hey, now there's the proper Christian attitude! Love thy brother? Screw that! Anyone who thinks differently than I do should just go to hell!
I celebrate Christmas every year. I also celebrate Halloween and I'm not a pagan either. For that matter, I celebrate Easter. These are all fun holidays where we can be with our families and show our love. I have a tree and decorations at Christmas and candy at Easter. These holidays (like many holidays) may have a religious root to them, but so what? I'll celebrate it my way, and you can celebrate it your way.
And anyway, why do you care what I do on my day off? Am I telling you that you have to celebrate only my way?
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:38 pm |
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Anonymous
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Mike Ventrella wrote: Am I telling you that you have to celebrate only my way?
I generally agreed with you, but I have to plead ignorance here.
You celebrate Frank Sinatra songs???
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:52 pm |
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Mister Ecks
New Server, Same X
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:07 pm Posts: 28301 Location: ... siiiigh...
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I want to say that you aren't celebrating Christmas at all, but I won't. :wink:
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:10 pm |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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Mr. X wrote: I want to say that you aren't celebrating Christmas at all, but I won't. :wink:
Well, sure I am. I don't celebrate exactly like you do, and you don't celebrate it exactly like other denominations do, and so on. Christmas has become such a regular holiday that everyone can enjoy it. I know plenty of Jews who put up trees and have Santa Claus and give presents on December 25th too. It's a fun holiday, why not share it? Isn't sharing one of the things Christmas is supposed to be about?
Oh, and Krem: That was bad. :wink:
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:44 pm |
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Mister Ecks
New Server, Same X
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:07 pm Posts: 28301 Location: ... siiiigh...
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Mike Ventrella wrote: Mr. X wrote: I want to say that you aren't celebrating Christmas at all, but I won't. :wink: Well, sure I am. I don't celebrate exactly like you do, and you don't celebrate it exactly like other denominations do, and so on. Christmas has become such a regular holiday that everyone can enjoy it. I know plenty of Jews who put up trees and have Santa Claus and give presents on December 25th too. It's a fun holiday, why not share it? Isn't sharing one of the things Christmas is supposed to be about? Oh, and Krem: That was bad. :wink:
You probably didn't read everything, but my point was not to call it Christmas, since the word Christmas didn't originally pertain to Santa Claus, it pertained to Jesus. Hence the Christ in Christmas. A name change would be enough, but that would never happen. Oh, and a bunch of people thought of me as an idiot. Nothing new.
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:49 pm |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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Mr. X wrote: Mike Ventrella wrote: Mr. X wrote: I want to say that you aren't celebrating Christmas at all, but I won't. :wink: Well, sure I am. I don't celebrate exactly like you do, and you don't celebrate it exactly like other denominations do, and so on. Christmas has become such a regular holiday that everyone can enjoy it. I know plenty of Jews who put up trees and have Santa Claus and give presents on December 25th too. It's a fun holiday, why not share it? Isn't sharing one of the things Christmas is supposed to be about? Oh, and Krem: That was bad. :wink: You probably didn't read everything, but my point was not to call it Christmas, since the word Christmas didn't originally pertain to Santa Claus, it pertained to Jesus. Hence the Christ in Christmas. A name change would be enough, but that would never happen. Oh, and a bunch of people thought of me as an idiot. Nothing new.
You're right; I read the first few pages and then decided I had said all I wanted to say so there was no need to read the rest...
Words change meaning over time. Sorry. We could call it "xmas" but I doubt that would make you feel any better!
Are we going to have this same debate when Easter gets here?
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:57 pm |
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Mister Ecks
New Server, Same X
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:07 pm Posts: 28301 Location: ... siiiigh...
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Sigh. Why is it only a select group here are allowed to debate? Sorry to try something new people. Geez. Sorry if so many thought it was a stupid idea to debate.
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:05 pm |
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