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 The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back 

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 The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back 
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The Dark Knight

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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
I just don't understand why religious people can't just worship their god, whichever one it is, in peace. Why do they have to insist their religion on everyone else too? It's basically no different than a plague.

Also, can a Christian truly believe in democracy if a tyrant in the sky has final word over everything no matter who is elected?

Should we ban religious people from holding office? Feels like it is the only way to get any sort of common sense back into government.


At some point in time, a society will always have to choose between religious freedom and all other freedoms. Because the religious, once in power, will not extend to others the freedoms they were granted when they were once out of power.


Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:33 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
I just don't understand why religious people can't just worship their god, whichever one it is, in peace. Why do they have to insist their religion on everyone else too? It's basically no different than a plague.

Is far leftists forcing their ideology on people any better than this? A lot of the time the last few years the right has been the one saying leave me alone.

Personally I don't support either making atheist kids read the bible, or making kids from conservative families forced to learn radical gender ideology. They're the same thing.

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Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:33 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Shack wrote:
If there isn't even 50 senators who support banning abortion (let alone 60), maybe it shouldn't be?


A fair point, but given the Court’s recent reaction to gun laws I doubt a law would stand in the face of the court who is far more interested in pushing a fundamentalist agenda (not conservative which would imply keeping the status quo) that upholding precedent. This has been fifty years in the making, and taking a back seat to the whole thing to appreciate it for what it is, is fascinating. It has plunged the Republican Party into the the Christian Party. Interesting to see, as church attendance is going down, how long until the Republican Party collapses under the weight of its own fundamentalism. Of course a chief strategy has been to align itself with Libertarianism which seems to have a future. But this awkward marriage of Theocratic lawmaking and gallant individualism will sour without a common cause that has kept the Republican Party with a chief identity for the past few decades.

Right now the circumstances of the world which are unfairly being hoisted on the shoulders of Biden administration will allow for the GOP to withstand this decade, but their long term future looks bleak.

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Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:36 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Darth Indiana Bond wrote:
Actually yeah, this has now given the Democrats a proper platform now going forward into the near future that voters can vote on that will actually have an effect. Democrats have long been a hodgepodge party of nothing, but this might make them popular again. This will be particularly interesting for Texas and Florida. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some shocking results come November.


Social policy is what helped spike Dem popularity in the first place. Not ignoring the blame that should be laid on the hands of many GOPers but again. RBG not retiring matters. The # of arrogant I's and Dems in swing states who didn't vote for Hill in 2016 because they thought she had it locked up matters. The # of completely out of touch fat lefters who dramatically undermined Dem efforts in 2020 matter.

I think this type of thing may well help people like Beto in Texas, Val Demmings in Florida, etc. This is not helping Repubs in suburbs at all.

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Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:36 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
Excel wrote:
RBG is both a legend and an example of intense naiveness and selfishness that is HAUNTING her legacy.
When was she supposed to retire? Why wouldn't McConnel just block her replacement like he did with Merick? This is not RBG's fault, this is the Republicans fault.


It is both their fault. RBG didn't grasp that the game had changed. No reason to think she gets blocked if she retires in 2012-2013 like Obama had hoped for.

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Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:37 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Darth Indiana Bond wrote:
Shack wrote:
If there isn't even 50 senators who support banning abortion (let alone 60), maybe it shouldn't be?


A fair point, but given the Court’s recent reaction to gun laws I doubt a law would stand in the face of the court who is far more interested in pushing a fundamentalist agenda (not conservative which would imply keeping the status quo) that upholding precedent..


If this was true they would have made a pro life ruling and forced California to ban abortion and used some part of it like "everyone has the right to life". But instead they just made themselves neutral based on how it's a reach to act like the constitution is more pro choice than pro life when you can cherry pick parts of it for either.

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Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:39 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Chippy wrote:
Darth Indiana Bond wrote:
Yeah, it is smart. Never have I disagreed more with “The Left” more than with Defund the Police. This whole movement nearly ruined the Democrats in 2020’in what should have been a slam dunk year for them. Even if your argument is to reallocate funds from the police to other services, factions of the movement were even making the case that the police should be abolished all together. It was utterly naive.


Is everyone on this site completely brain damaged? Not a single Democrat even once campaigned on "defunding the police". In fact, I'd say 90%+ of the country RAISED pay for police and increased police budgets.

Republicans have such a stranglehold on the media that you would believe the police are persecuted more than fucking Jesus.


At a bare minimum, the Dems made some severe political missteps with their handling of the numerous terrible police actions. It takes 2 seconds to google. MANY Dems have done or supported things that reasonable people who view as less than supportive of police. Yes, Biden and co. have been strongly against defund the police - Biden also dominated the suburbs in 2020 and shattered the all time voting record - but it is a fact that the "Squad" ring of the party has a much more controversial stance and GOPers/Trump wisely shoved that angle hard. AOC and co. don't realize that regardless of differences in polish or intention, they are viewed by Manu in the exact same manner of MGT and Hoebert.

Biden is pretty mainstream with his police agenda, but that doesn't go for everyone in his party.

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Last edited by Excel on Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:43 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Shack wrote:
Darth Indiana Bond wrote:
Shack wrote:
If there isn't even 50 senators who support banning abortion (let alone 60), maybe it shouldn't be?


A fair point, but given the Court’s recent reaction to gun laws I doubt a law would stand in the face of the court who is far more interested in pushing a fundamentalist agenda (not conservative which would imply keeping the status quo) that upholding precedent..


If this was true they would have made a pro life ruling and forced California to ban abortion and used some part of it like "everyone has the right to life". But instead they just made themselves neutral based on how it's a reach to act like the constitution is more pro choice than pro life when you can cherry pick parts of it for either.


The larger issue clearly at play is that the right of the court remains stuck in late 1700s. I do understand, and largely support, the courts usual resistance to wade into more specific waters because once that dam breaks, the floodgates are open for future generations of the court.

I think John Roberts was actually dead on here legally where they should have held the obvious need for a right to abortion but granted more specific guidance in the other areas. Alito, Thomas and co. have badly damaged the court in the eyes of the vast majority of people born after 1960.

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Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:46 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
This conservative stacked Supreme Court made a big mistake today. I know it's not apples to apples, but Conservatives should know better than anyone how hard people are willing to fight to defend their rights. They do it all the time for the 2nd Amendment. Now, just when Dems seem to be really low going into midterms, this decision is made and it will unify them and make the elections this fall far more competitive than it looked like they would be. It gives Biden something to focus on besides fighting COVID and inflation. I would be surprised if his numbers don't go up now (though it would be hard for them to fall much further).


Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:56 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
SolC9 wrote:
This conservative stacked Supreme Court made a big mistake today. I know it's not apples to apples, but Conservatives should know better than anyone how hard people are willing to fight to defend their rights. They do it all the time for the 2nd Amendment. Now, just when Dems seem to be really low going into midterms, this decision is made and it will unify them and make the elections this fall far more competitive than it looked like they would be. It gives Biden something to focus on besides fighting COVID and inflation. I would be surprised if his numbers don't go up now (though it would be hard for them to fall much further).


His numbers didn't go up that much when the decision leaked a few months ago

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Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:16 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Shack wrote:
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
I just don't understand why religious people can't just worship their god, whichever one it is, in peace. Why do they have to insist their religion on everyone else too? It's basically no different than a plague.

Is far leftists forcing their ideology on people any better than this? A lot of the time the last few years the right has been the one saying leave me alone.

Personally I don't support either making atheist kids read the bible, or making kids from conservative families forced to learn radical gender ideology. They're the same thing.


You're just completely oblivious to the real world.

Leftists fight for the RIGHT to be able to do things. Literally the only thing the Right fights for is the right to bear "arms". Literally every other topic they fight to limit/restrict/ban.

Bibles shouldn't be taught in school because Religion should be separate from State. Teaching kids that people can be gay or trans is not the "same" as teaching them there is a magical man in the sky who makes all the rules. Even implying they're the same thing shows how much you don't consider gay/trans people, people. Get a fucking grip.

Not a single person on the left is "forcing" anyone to learn anything uncomfortable. Don't want your kid to learn that gay people exist? Pull them out of that class. You probably teach them abstinence anyway, so enjoy your kid getting pregnant at 16.

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Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:30 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
This is a truly disgusting day in American history. I cannot and will not get over it.

Republicans should stop calling themselves pro life because they aren’t. If they were, they’d support easier access to health care and providing assistance to pregnant women who are too poor and disadvantaged to successfully raise children. These ghouls want to dictate what women are and are not allowed to do, and then when the child is born, they completely stop giving a shit. It’s not about babies, it’s about punishing people and maintaining control.

What’s the point? So much for vaccines and “my body, my choice.” Like, sorry. You’re hypocrites and full of shit.


Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:42 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
zwackerm wrote:
Corpse wrote:
A women should be able to collect insurance for their unborn, and child support, and everything that goes with having a child already.


Sure! You act like pro life people wouldn't support this.


Boy do I have some news for you, dude.


Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:53 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
What's done is done, for now, so what now? (Hint: There's no plan for what's next, but read if you like.)

Has everyone who worked toward this decision over the past 50 years determined how they'll support these women, or perhaps more importantly, handle the unwanted babies/kids they (some now unwillingly) birth? Are they just going to be tossed into the broken foster care system? I know school shootings are helping to free up some space, but it's not that much (yet).

As much as 50% of foster care children fall behind their classmates in school and don't graduate on time. We've done very little to help these kids already in the system, so I presume the same fate will fall upon future kids in the system. No plan to help better their education.

Nearly 1/5 of foster care children live in an overcrowded group home already, where needs and care are stretched far too thin and some receive little/nothing.

1/5 of the teens who age out of the system end up homeless. And around 30% of homeless people came from the foster system. Homelessness is a continuously growing (and unnecessary) problem in America already. This is bound to grow as more babies/toddlers entering the system = more teens that go unadopted and age out. Are we prepared to accept more homelessness? As a country, we care very little about it already.

What of the juvenile justice system? How much can it handle? Many suffer from overcrowding due to minor offences now. Almost 3/4 of the kids there came from the failing child welfare system.

Where are all the extra foster families, group care facilities, social workers, etc., coming from to handle the influx?

American's has a broken health care system (is it even one?), so who will be paying for all these extra bills? Children in foster care are more likely to have all sorts of health problems. The government? Yeah, no. They don't do that already. 1/3, for example, are unable to see a dentist at least once a year. Medicaid/CHIP only goes so far (not far enough), and Republicans often vote to prevent them from being expanded (and vote to roll back what they even provide now...).

Like, what's the plan? These are just a few things. Why isn't there already a plan? We've had 50 years to put some in place, right? I've seen basically nothing. In fact, I watched a pro-life activist say the details need to be "ironed out" when questioned on this issue today. She didn't know of a plan because there are none. Shouldn't this matters been "ironed out" beforehand?

Some might argue "at least they're alive and given a chance at life now!" Yeah, a life that's likely to be a struggle on every level possible, that may wind up with them being homeless, alone and forgotten. If you're going to "protect life", you have to do it through every stage of life, otherwise you're not "pro-life."

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Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:14 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Jiffy wrote:
zwackerm wrote:
Corpse wrote:
A women should be able to collect insurance for their unborn, and child support, and everything that goes with having a child already.


Sure! You act like pro life people wouldn't support this.


Boy do I have some news for you, dude.


I should have clarified. If we keep programs like that, pro lifers would support extending the same benefits. But you’re right a lot might not support those programs period.


Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:38 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Corpse wrote:
What's done is done, for now, so what now? (Hint: There's no plan for what's next, but read if you like.)

Has everyone who worked toward this decision over the past 50 years determined how they'll support these women, or perhaps more importantly, handle the unwanted babies/kids they (some now unwillingly) birth? Are they just going to be tossed into the broken foster care system? I know school shootings are helping to free up some space, but it's not that much (yet).

As much as 50% of foster care children fall behind their classmates in school and don't graduate on time. We've done very little to help these kids already in the system, so I presume the same fate will fall upon future kids in the system. No plan to help better their education.

Nearly 1/5 of foster care children live in an overcrowded group home already, where needs and care are stretched far too thin and some receive little/nothing.

1/5 of the teens who age out of the system end up homeless. And around 30% of homeless people came from the foster system. Homelessness is a continuously growing (and unnecessary) problem in America already. This is bound to grow as more babies/toddlers entering the system = more teens that go unadopted and age out. Are we prepared to accept more homelessness? As a country, we care very little about it already.

What of the juvenile justice system? How much can it handle? Many suffer from overcrowding due to minor offences now. Almost 3/4 of the kids there came from the failing child welfare system.

Where are all the extra foster families, group care facilities, social workers, etc., coming from to handle the influx?

American's has a broken health care system (is it even one?), so who will be paying for all these extra bills? Children in foster care are more likely to have all sorts of health problems. The government? Yeah, no. They don't do that already. 1/3, for example, are unable to see a dentist at least once a year. Medicaid/CHIP only goes so far (not far enough), and Republicans often vote to prevent them from being expanded (and vote to roll back what they even provide now...).

Like, what's the plan? These are just a few things. Why isn't there already a plan? We've had 50 years to put some in place, right? I've seen basically nothing. In fact, I watched a pro-life activist say the details need to be "ironed out" when questioned on this issue today. She didn't know of a plan because there are none. Shouldn't this matters been "ironed out" beforehand?

Some might argue "at least they're alive and given a chance at life now!" Yeah, a life that's likely to be a struggle on every level possible, that may wind up with them being homeless, alone and forgotten. If you're going to "protect life", you have to do it through every stage of life, otherwise you're not "pro-life."


Again, foster care is only for babies if there are LEGAL THINGS keeping them from being adopted, like the parents still wanting custody but they have been taken away by the CPA. If a baby is given up for adoption by both parents, there are far more couples waiting per baby given up than needed.


Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:40 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Corpse wrote:
What's done is done, for now, so what now? (Hint: There's no plan for what's next, but read if you like.)

Has everyone who worked toward this decision over the past 50 years determined how they'll support these women, or perhaps more importantly, handle the unwanted babies/kids they (some now unwillingly) birth? Are they just going to be tossed into the broken foster care system? I know school shootings are helping to free up some space, but it's not that much (yet).

As much as 50% of foster care children fall behind their classmates in school and don't graduate on time. We've done very little to help these kids already in the system, so I presume the same fate will fall upon future kids in the system. No plan to help better their education.

Nearly 1/5 of foster care children live in an overcrowded group home already, where needs and care are stretched far too thin and some receive little/nothing.

1/5 of the teens who age out of the system end up homeless. And around 30% of homeless people came from the foster system. Homelessness is a continuously growing (and unnecessary) problem in America already. This is bound to grow as more babies/toddlers entering the system = more teens that go unadopted and age out. Are we prepared to accept more homelessness? As a country, we care very little about it already.

What of the juvenile justice system? How much can it handle? Many suffer from overcrowding due to minor offences now. Almost 3/4 of the kids there came from the failing child welfare system.

Where are all the extra foster families, group care facilities, social workers, etc., coming from to handle the influx?

American's has a broken health care system (is it even one?), so who will be paying for all these extra bills? Children in foster care are more likely to have all sorts of health problems. The government? Yeah, no. They don't do that already. 1/3, for example, are unable to see a dentist at least once a year. Medicaid/CHIP only goes so far (not far enough), and Republicans often vote to prevent them from being expanded (and vote to roll back what they even provide now...).

Like, what's the plan? These are just a few things. Why isn't there already a plan? We've had 50 years to put some in place, right? I've seen basically nothing. In fact, I watched a pro-life activist say the details need to be "ironed out" when questioned on this issue today. She didn't know of a plan because there are none. Shouldn't this matters been "ironed out" beforehand?

Some might argue "at least they're alive and given a chance at life now!" Yeah, a life that's likely to be a struggle on every level possible, that may wind up with them being homeless, alone and forgotten. If you're going to "protect life", you have to do it through every stage of life, otherwise you're not "pro-life."


Again, foster care is only for babies if there are LEGAL THINGS keeping them from being adopted, like the parents still wanting custody but they have been taken away by the CPA. If a baby is given up for adoption by both parents, there are far more couples waiting per baby given up than needed.


Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:21 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Corpse is thus far the only one to elude to the exceptionally important dynamic which is the ridiculous see-saw this sets up. So if in a few years, we have a liberal majority, they are going to be able to reinstate Roe v. Wade? Nuts.

You know John Roberts is probably sick to his stomach over that element. The precent it sets means this type of stuff means everything they pass now is subject to change in the future. The concept of settled law is out the window.

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Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:41 am
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Corpse wrote:
What's done is done, for now, so what now? (Hint: There's no plan for what's next, but read if you like.)

Has everyone who worked toward this decision over the past 50 years determined how they'll support these women, or perhaps more importantly, handle the unwanted babies/kids they (some now unwillingly) birth? Are they just going to be tossed into the broken foster care system? I know school shootings are helping to free up some space, but it's not that much (yet).

As much as 50% of foster care children fall behind their classmates in school and don't graduate on time. We've done very little to help these kids already in the system, so I presume the same fate will fall upon future kids in the system. No plan to help better their education.

Nearly 1/5 of foster care children live in an overcrowded group home already, where needs and care are stretched far too thin and some receive little/nothing.

1/5 of the teens who age out of the system end up homeless. And around 30% of homeless people came from the foster system. Homelessness is a continuously growing (and unnecessary) problem in America already. This is bound to grow as more babies/toddlers entering the system = more teens that go unadopted and age out. Are we prepared to accept more homelessness? As a country, we care very little about it already.

What of the juvenile justice system? How much can it handle? Many suffer from overcrowding due to minor offences now. Almost 3/4 of the kids there came from the failing child welfare system.

Where are all the extra foster families, group care facilities, social workers, etc., coming from to handle the influx?

American's has a broken health care system (is it even one?), so who will be paying for all these extra bills? Children in foster care are more likely to have all sorts of health problems. The government? Yeah, no. They don't do that already. 1/3, for example, are unable to see a dentist at least once a year. Medicaid/CHIP only goes so far (not far enough), and Republicans often vote to prevent them from being expanded (and vote to roll back what they even provide now...).

Like, what's the plan? These are just a few things. Why isn't there already a plan? We've had 50 years to put some in place, right? I've seen basically nothing. In fact, I watched a pro-life activist say the details need to be "ironed out" when questioned on this issue today. She didn't know of a plan because there are none. Shouldn't this matters been "ironed out" beforehand?

Some might argue "at least they're alive and given a chance at life now!" Yeah, a life that's likely to be a struggle on every level possible, that may wind up with them being homeless, alone and forgotten. If you're going to "protect life", you have to do it through every stage of life, otherwise you're not "pro-life."


All very good points. Depending on how far this goes and how long it lasts, there will be unintended consequences. The book Freakanomics covers this very well, as legalized abortion led to a decrease in crime Approximately 18 or so years after it came into being.

Then of course will come the complications with miscarriages and births that are dangerous to the health of women even for planned pregnancies.

But Fundamentalists don’t care about pragmatism, just ideals (usually outdated ones)

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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Excel wrote:
Corpse is thus far the only one to elude to the exceptionally important dynamic which is the ridiculous see-saw this sets up. So if in a few years, we have a liberal majority, they are going to be able to reinstate Roe v. Wade? Nuts.

You know John Roberts is probably sick to his stomach over that element. The precent it sets means this type of stuff means everything they pass now is subject to change in the future. The concept of settled law is out the window.


Also very true and why I think expanding the court will not solve anything

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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Libs wrote:
This is a truly disgusting day in American history. I cannot and will not get over it.

Republicans should stop calling themselves pro life because they aren’t. If they were, they’d support easier access to health care and providing assistance to pregnant women who are too poor and disadvantaged to successfully raise children. These ghouls want to dictate what women are and are not allowed to do, and then when the child is born, they completely stop giving a shit. It’s not about babies, it’s about punishing people and maintaining control.

What’s the point? So much for vaccines and “my body, my choice.” Like, sorry. You’re hypocrites and full of shit.

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Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:55 pm
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Romosexual!
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
https://youtu.be/Fpc40dmPlVM

FUCK YOU SCOTUS!!!

is it November yet? :mad:

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Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:25 am
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Superfreak
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Trump insiders say he thinks its a disaster that they made this move before midterms and I think he's right. No doubt this is a blue booster across the board and likely in many moderate red states. Beto no doubt seeing a sizable bump due to guns and abortion in Texas.

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Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:44 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
This could boost overall turnout. But people who are motivated to vote based on abortion don’t often cross the aisle and vote for the other side. If you think abortion is baby murder, you’re already not a democrat. If you think restricting abortion is to control women, you’re already not voting Republican. This is evidenced by the lack of change in polling when the draft was leaked.

Also, Texas Beto is not seeing a boost due to guns lol. Campaigning on gun control in Texas is like campaigning on banning abortion and gay marriage in California


Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:51 pm
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