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 The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back 

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 The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back 
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The Kramer
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
So you kill people everytime you leave the house?


Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:45 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
I mean you must if you thinking driving across states to plug yourself into a volatile situatiom, armed and very willing to fire is normal, relatable and something that could happen to anyone.


Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:49 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
I was going to type up what was bound to be a wall of test here, but instead, in short: He should certainly be guilty of the first three count (Reckless Homicide and the two Recklessly Endangering Safety charges). He won't get the maximum or near maximum on these charges of course, but he needs to serve a great deal of time from these and be held accountable for his reckless actions (at the very least--two people died).

Counts 4 and 5 (Intentional Homicide and Attempted Intentional Homicide), probably not. Did his actions result in two deaths? Yes. Did he got to Kenosha with the intent to kill two people? No, I don't think so. Did it cross his mind that he might end up in a situation where he'd have to use his gun to kill people? Surely, so, why else take the gun? Protection? Okay, fine, but protection from actively getting involved in a situation that was designated as dangerous isn't self-defense. Whatever the case, it's very hard to prove "intent" here, so I'd be surprised if he's found guilty on them.

Count 6 (Possession of a Dangerous Weapon by a Minor) was dismissed by the Judge yesterday, so clearly not now. If the Judge himself says the law (whether a minor can legally openly carry a certain gun) is "confusing," then that law needs amended. Dismissing a charge because it hit itself in its confusion like a Pokémon is ridiculous. (Not saying it *shouldn't* have been here, just that it shouldn't have been so confusing in the first place!) At the core of that law, Rittenhouse was absolutely guilty since he was 17.

Count 7 (Failure to Comply With the Emergency Order; the Curfew) was dismissed by the Judge earlier in the trial for "lack of evidence." Umm... Okay.

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Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:39 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
I'd say going to a protest where BLM and ANTIFA people with guns will be there (and after other people have died at them) makes it more justified for Rittenhouse to bring one to defend himself, not less

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Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:33 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Are you suggesting it's okay for anyone to carry a gun to a location/event, etc., one that may have a history of violence, even deaths/murder? The list of "safe" spaces is pretty small, if it even exists.

Should a 17 year old be allowed to take a gun to school for protection because of violence there, including past shootings before? Or to a mall, a movie theater, a night club, or anywhere else others in that space have displayed violence in the past? And if a bully at school, or a drunk person at a club attacks you, you can just start firing a gun?

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:37 am
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Corpse wrote:
Are you suggesting it's okay for anyone to carry a gun to a location/event, etc., one that may have a history of violence, even deaths/murder? The list of "safe" spaces is pretty small, if it even exists.

Should a 17 year old be allowed to take a gun to school for protection because of violence there, including past shootings before? Or to a mall, a movie theater, a night club, or anywhere else others in that space have displayed violence in the past? And if a bully at school, or a drunk person at a club attacks you, you can just start firing a gun?


The BLM riots in Kenosha were legitimately a dangerous area as proven by Rittenhouse ending up getting shot at, and overall violence is what a group like ANTIFA does - unlike a school movie theatre etc

And whether people like it or not, carrying a gun is legal in Wisconsin, although if you ask me the minimum age should be 21 or something

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Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:04 am
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Not Guilty

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Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:16 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
I guess murder is legal so long as the people you kill disagree with your politics. Great precedent to set here.


Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:41 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Shack wrote:
I'd say going to a protest where BLM and ANTIFA people with guns will be there (and after other people have died at them) makes it more justified for Rittenhouse to bring one to defend himself, not less
And who forced him to go there? His actions directly lead to the deaths of two people.


Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:42 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
So, theoretically, lets say someone is waiting outside for White OJ. They point a gun in his face, he defends himself by slapping it away and then they defend themselves from his defense by puttng a hole in White OJ's brain. Is this legal self defense? Because that's what this trial suggests.


Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:50 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
So, theoretically, lets say someone is waiting outside for White OJ. They point a gun in his face, he defends himself by slapping it away and then they defend themselves from his defense by puttng a hole in White OJ's brain. Is this legal self defense? Because that's what this trial suggests.


Pointing a gun at someone's face is different than Rittenhouse walking around with a gun

What you described was basically what happened with Arbery which is why they have a better chance of being guilty (Although because "citizen's arrest" is stupidly legal in Georgia it makes it more complicated)

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Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:58 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Weren't those guys not even arrested initially though? They'll get away with murder too, cause the laws don't apply to republicans anymore apparently.

And we know that if it wasn't for the video, Chauvin would never have been convicted, and he'd probably be back on the force by now.

This is why people riot. Though the rioters should be arrested and tried too, not murdered on the spot.


Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:04 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Not Guilty on Intentional Homicide and Reckless Homicide aren't overly surprising, but not Not Guilty on Reckless Endangering of Safety is quite unfortunate.

What's to stop protestors, or rioters, from taking to the streets armed in states/cities where it's okay under certain circumstances (age, type of gun, etc.)? Yes, some already are, but all could theoretically protest while OPENLY carrying rifles. I can easily see people decide to attend protests/riots openly carrying a rifle now for so-called self-defense reasons. (Again, in states/cities where it's legal.)

Remember that armed rich couple who were armed and pointing their guns at the protestors/rioters (whatever, just people) who walked down their street? Could someone in that crowd had shot and killed that couple on self-defense in a state where it was legal to carry a gun? If two opposing protestors get into a heated argument and throw around threats like "I'll kill you!" or "I'll get you!", and then the one shoves the other, causing that person to shoot and kill the shover (attacker). Is that acceptable behavior under self-defense as well?

In short, in some parts of the country, it's legal to walk (or drive across state lines) into a riot or protest (or presumably any situation where physical harm could be caused to you by others) while openly carrying a gun and shoot people if they pose bodily harm to you. So... I think we can expect many protestors/rioters to begin openly carry guns in the future, since it's legal, as a response. Not saying anyone *should*, but they all have the law on their side.

The solution, I suppose, is to implement harsher gun laws since those (or lack thereof, the Judge even called the law confusing in this case) is what caused this to happen, but we know how that'll go.

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“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:29 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
The only argument against Kyle is that he "didn't have to be there", Neither did the rioters.


Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:45 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
So now that is has been established as legal, what's to stop more armed innocent civilians to drive across the country so they can defend themselves at protests/riots?


Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:20 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
IT's called a militia


Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:29 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
zwackerm wrote:
The only argument against Kyle is that he "didn't have to be there", Neither did the rioters.


No one should be anywhere causing problems, destruction, deaths, etc.

Any individual breaking the law should be prepared to face the consequences of their actions. If a person is smashing, burning, someone's property, they should be held accountable. If a rioter is attacking someone's home (or someone), and that homeowner/person decides to defend themselves and/or their property, then sure, the rioter/attacker should be prepared for some retaliation.

However, this doesn't give an uninvolved individual the right to insert themselves into such a situation, much less attempt to take the law into their own hands or lie to law enforcement about being medical personnel or some other profession they're not. No one was attacking Kyle until after he inserted himself into the ongoing problem. And I'm not defending anyone who was chasing him or attacking him. I'm not saying Kyle should have been guilty of all charges (but certainly so regarding the Reckless Endangerment of Safety counts). Everyone there that night (or anywhere else causing destruction, etc.) who was breaking the law was at fault and should be held accountable, but the difference here is that someone (Kyle in this case) recklessly inserted himself into the ongoing problem, which resulted in two deaths. Others causing problems somewhere doesn't give others the right to insert themselves into that problem to either support, or to defend against, them.

This opens the legal gates for a lot of people, rioters and "defenders" alike, to just openly carry guns now in the event they need to defend themselves.

Hold everyone who is breaking the law accountable. I don't think many are really defending rioters as a group. Actually, some are, sure, just as other people defend just about anyone or anything else regardless of warrant.

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:38 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Absolutely no level-headed person should be surprised that KR got off. He was way overcharged the foolish prosecutors and this clear fact is being ignored by many in this thread. Watch the video - of course Rittenhouse is not a murderer in the legally defined sense. He was on his back being hit by a skateboarder - and one of the fools even had a gun! Be realistic about what happened. He didn't go open fire on the ground from a distance. Every single poster in this thread is pulling the trigger too if they were in the same position as KR - they wouldn't just let themselves get beaten by the mob while holding onto a gun. This type of Democrat response is insane and shows how stupid so many in there party have become.

KR is guilty of being an idiot for being there in the first place, but in the eyes of the law, that had nothing to do with his acts when he was being chased and attacked by the mob. Police and national guard let these nonsensical riots get way out of control last year - this shit was just a matter of time.

The Arbery case is the one where there should be real anger if he they get off. This case? Much more straight forward.

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Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:18 am
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back


Probably posturing to avoid being seen as a lame duck... but he'd probably have a better chance of winning than Harris

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Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:45 am
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Excel wrote:
Absolutely no level-headed person should be surprised that KR got off. He was way overcharged the foolish prosecutors and this clear fact is being ignored by many in this thread. Watch the video - of course Rittenhouse is not a murderer in the legally defined sense. He was on his back being hit by a skateboarder - and one of the fools even had a gun! Be realistic about what happened. He didn't go open fire on the ground from a distance. Every single poster in this thread is pulling the trigger too if they were in the same position as KR - they wouldn't just let themselves get beaten by the mob while holding onto a gun. This type of Democrat response is insane and shows how stupid so many in there party have become.

KR is guilty of being an idiot for being there in the first place, but in the eyes of the law, that had nothing to do with his acts when he was being chased and attacked by the mob. Police and national guard let these nonsensical riots get way out of control last year - this shit was just a matter of time.

The Arbery case is the one where there should be real anger if he they get off. This case? Much more straight forward.


Most people aren't stupid enough to go to another state to inject themselves into a hostile situation there with a loaded rifle, and then lie to authorities about being some medical professional. Perhaps authorities should have subjected him for mental evaluation? Was his mental health checked on at all? The authorities in this particular situation should be held accountable, too, but they haven't been and aren't going to be.

Most realistic people weren't expecting a guilty charge here on the intentional homicide counts, but the pass on the recklessly endangering of safety counts is where the system failed in this case. (Not to mention tossing the count for carrying the weapon because the law was "confusing" to the Judge and legal in that case.) And it largely failed because of lax laws that allow it to fail. Such as the rifle he was carrying being legal for open carry due to the size of its barrel.

Gun laws are simply awful in most of the United States. Just take yesterday's incident at ATL. Some passenger thought it was fine to take a loaded gun with them, and as a result, that gun discharges after TSA discovers it, causing the passenger to lunge for the gun in the bag, thus causing injury to three people and causing the airport to erupt in chaos.

What happened to the person who brought this loaded gun into the airport? Well, he fled for one, but that doesn't even matter. Because nothing, nothing, nothing can really be done about it. Under Georgia laws, the worst that could happen is a fine of a few thousand dollars. That's it. All authorities could ask if he hadn't fled was to return his gun (assuming he has a permit) to his car/home and then come back to board the plane like nothing happened! What of the three innocent people that were injured? Oh, well! Wrong place, wrong time. Hope you got good health insurance.

Note: The passengers has since been IDed and turns out he's a convicted felon, so some action can be taken with this individual. But a normal person with a permit? Nothing but a fine could be done in this case. You'd think that, minimally, their permit would be suspended/revoked, but no.

Airports are seeing more and more people trying to bring guns aboard airplanes, now at record levels, and 83% of those guns are already loaded. And there are representatives, like 5th grade reading level Madison Cawthorn from North Carolina, telling people to be armed and dangerous. Airports and airlines are already dealing with a ridiculous number of hostile passengers, just wait until one of them manages to bring a gun aboard their flight.

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:40 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Surprised? No. It actually seems like it is relatively easy to kill someone and get away with it, especially if MAGA CULTure is paying for your legal bills. Disgusted? Yes, now that it's now been established as legal for a teenager to arm themselves, drive across the country and put themselves in a position where shooting someone is the only way they can "defend themselves." Also very disgusted that so many people (republicans) are celebrating that this killer will now get a chance to kill again. The Party of Death loves every bit of blood that has been spilled and will continue to spill because of this verdict.

Also, you can't just keep glossing over the "sure he didn't need to be there." That should be the whole case! The Victims (uh oh I used a curse!) did not need to be there either, but they also DIDNT KILL ANYONE. This guy sought out violence and achieved it, resulting in the completely unnecessary deaths of two people. How can there be no consequences for that? How can people not only defend, but celebrate this killer? It sickens me.


Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:31 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
So it was Kyle's master plan to go to Kenosha, wait for a protestor to lunge after his gun so he could shoot him? Why not just believe that he legitimately was there for other reasons (if not to help with medical or fire stuff like he said, at least counterprotesting in a non deadly way like the rest of Back the Blue type people who were there) and had a gun to protect himself?

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Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:25 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
No I don't think Kyle ever had a master plan. He got radicalized by MAGA CULTure online, decided to cosplay as a soldier, found the situation much scarier than he anticipated and killed people as he was panicking. He should be in prison for this, but because of his political affiliations he was able to raise enough money for a good lawyer that pounced on a lousy prosecution. This is a loss for the whole country and it is just going to become a common thing now, like police brutality and school shootings. A republican's wettest dream.


Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:50 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
It wasn't just panicking. He was in serious danger if charging pedo dumbass reached him and took his gun. He has no obligation to just hope he just gets roughed up instead of killed with his own gun or beat to the point of brain damage. Moral is don't attack someone holding a rifle if you want to live

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Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:42 pm
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Post Re: The Biden era: The Establishment Strikes Back
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
Surprised? No. It actually seems like it is relatively easy to kill someone and get away with it, especially if MAGA CULTure is paying for your legal bills. Disgusted? Yes, now that it's now been established as legal for a teenager to arm themselves, drive across the country and put themselves in a position where shooting someone is the only way they can "defend themselves." Also very disgusted that so many people (republicans) are celebrating that this killer will now get a chance to kill again. The Party of Death loves every bit of blood that has been spilled and will continue to spill because of this verdict.

Also, you can't just keep glossing over the "sure he didn't need to be there." That should be the whole case! The Victims (uh oh I used a curse!) did not need to be there either, but they also DIDNT KILL ANYONE. This guy sought out violence and achieved it, resulting in the completely unnecessary deaths of two people. How can there be no consequences for that? How can people not only defend, but celebrate this killer? It sickens me.


KR didn't murder someone, though. That is the whole thing here. He was on his back being attacked and fought back.

Corpse wrote:
[Most people aren't stupid enough to go to another state to inject themselves into a hostile situation there with a loaded rifle, and then lie to authorities about being some medical professional.


KR is guilty of many things, but murder isn't one of them

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Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:40 am
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