Yup, even with all that big bail out money, heard on TV today, we are at least 10 years away on getting all that needed job creation, to handle the current unemployment.

Yeah, I remember all those posts Gulli did criticizing the Republicans for driving our economy into the ditch and causing all the unemployment under the Bush years...

Oh, wait! No I don't remember them! That's right -- in Gulli's world, the people who cause the problem are never to blame, just the ones who try to fix it! Silly me.

Trying to fix it. Guess that is up there with achievements that don't have to go anywhere.

So whatever Groucho as we are still in the same bad place, but just deeper in debt.

Well, Grill, that was a fairly sane response, and so I will respond as well.

I disagree with much of what Obama has done to try to solve this -- but you know, you're not going to find many unbiased economists who would have done anything different. The stimulus kept the banks and auto industry from failing, and we've even been paid back all the money we gave them. Most economists think that the stimulus didn't work better because it wasn't large enough -- it didn't create enough jobs. And almost everyone agrees that Obama's plan, while not solving everything, kept us from going into another great depression.

So the question remains, as you've been asked in more than one thread: Instead of just telling us how awful things are and how Obama is to blame for everything, tell us what you would have had him do differently? If you think someone else would be a better President, who would that be and why? Can you explain your hatred of him in any meaningful way?

If you can't, then your criticism of him isn't worth much, is it?

Here is a chart showing job losses and gains. The red area is under Bush, the blue under Obama.



As you can see, jobs are returning from the many lost under Bush, although obviously not as fast as everyone (especially Obama) would like.

Mike - that's the problem, though. Jobs are cyclical, everyone knows that, and it's natural for them to return regardless of who the president is (after all - jobs returned under Bush too). What's not so obvious is why we're spending close to a trillion dollars on a stimulus package that is failing to produce results.

Then I'll ask you -- do you have a better solution? And please explain why you disagree with learned economists and what your economic education is?

And what do you mean "Jobs returned under Bush, too"? Where are you getting that from? Look at the chart!

Yeah. Can you say Trillions. And that is only for the Jobs Thing. What else should we add in for everything else on Obama's plate.

Can't help but notice you completely ignored my previous post asking your opinion and solution.

Easy. My Opinion is Obama Never should have been elected as he wasn't qualified to start with. And my solution is for someone to build a time machine.

And then you sit back and wonder why people laugh at you.

First of all, it's a silly argument to say "do you have a better solution?" One doesn't need to have an alternative to criticize policy.

Second, yes, I do have a preferred alternative: reducing barriers to entry for new businesses. That means lowering or eliminating corporate tax rates because most of the job growth comes from small businesses (only the big corporations have the means to seek out loopholes in the tax code), reducing the scale of the government and therefore the tax burden on people.

We would also do well by not pretending that politicians can improve the business cycle and letting the economy sort itself out instead of trying to reward the industries that failed such as banking, real estate and car manufacturing.

I disagree with some economists and agree with others. Just because you've got Krugman crying "more stimulus" doesn't mean that every economist supports that.

As for jobs under Bush - you have to expand that chart, and you will see that after the 2000-2001 recession jobs came back.

Why should I give a serious answer as there is no solutions.

*

So let me ask you a serious question. Let us say that I always have been 100 percent correct and you and Obama being 100 percent wrong.

How should the US make back the Trillions of dollars that have and will be wasted during Obama's horribly run Presidency.

Why are you criticizing someone if there are no solutions?

Seriously, Grill, you're like a guy who stands around at an auto accident and yells at the EMTs who can't save the guy's life instead of the drunk driver who caused the crash.

Yelling at someone who is doing the best they can to solve a problem when you have absolutely no idea how to solve that problem is not only counter-productive, it's just plain stupid and obnoxious.

As for you being "100 percent correct" that is theoretically impossible because you have offered nothing to be correct about. A blank slate cannot be "correct."

And how to build the budget? Well, the Congressional Budget Office says that the health care plan will save us $100 billion over ten years, and the Bush tax cuts are responsible for 25% of our current deficit, so I'd say keep the health care plan and ditch the tax cuts for the richest Americans. Then there is the plan to extend unemployment benefits because that money goes right back into the economy to stimulate it (as opposed to rich tax cuts which get stuck in a bank overseas somewhere and does nothing to improve our economy and hasn't done so for ten years).

Of course, you've already stated you're against those things, so once again I ask YOU: Do you have ANY solution at all? If not, why should anyone pay any attention to you?

Notice how Groucho ignores Krem's answer.

And just as I thought when the clueless Groucho asked me this question.

So Groucho, try to smarten.

** per Krem Above > First of all, it's a silly argument to say "do you have a better solution?" One doesn't need to have an alternative to criticize policy.

Even to watch this is painful. Just vanish, Goldie.

I agree. This is painful. I really am trying to have a reasonable debate, but Goldie makes it impossible. I guess I'll go back to ignoring him.

As always, I love discussing politics with anyone who wants to have a real discussion.

Sure. Everyone but Krem above, who for the second time, you have ignored his statements.

So whatever Groucho, as I am enjoying how you can't stand up to Krem.

And as I always said, I am asking questions cause I don't understand the politics of what we are doing here, considering the problems that we have. But just because I don't have the answers, I can ask the questions.... As Krem was smart enough to also point out.

Very True Krem, Groucho Comment is Very SILLY!!!!!! as I GRILL, knew all the time!

First of all, it's a silly argument to say "do you have a better solution?" One doesn't need to have an alternative to criticize policy.

White noise.