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 Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida 
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
loyalfromlondon wrote:
on MSNBC, they played every speech in its entirety EXCEPT Clinton's.



And Wold Blitzer just cut off Clinton. They aired all of Obama's speech :happy:

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Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:53 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Groucho wrote:
dolcevita wrote:
One of the exit polls showed that even though everyone voted for him, they wouldn't have a heart attack if Hillary ran the general ticket (75%). About 83% of Hillary voters said the same thing about Obama. This is a good sign. As polarized as the media tries to make it, and despite some people's extreme distaste for one or the other candidate, these polls show that the public is generally happy with both options. That's a good sign for the general election and also reflects the fact that most voters realize these two candidates are not that different from eachother. Stats like that make me feel good about the general election regardless of which candidate gets the ticket to advance.


Absolutely. I am supporting Obama but I am happy with all three of the candidates we Democrats have to choose from, and I will gladly vote for any, even though I have my preference.


Really? I can't stand Edwards. :thumbdown: Someone has got to slap him. He gets way too much media attention and love considering Ron Paul has practically gotten more of the proportionate Rep popular vote in several states' primaries than Edwards has gotten in Dem ones.

But I love Hillary and like Obama well enough too.

Quote:
I don't think the Republicans can say the same about their own candidates!


Yeah, I think Romney won the most 'ill-will' towards any candidate. I hope he or Huckabee get the general ticket, because there are just large chunks of the Rep. party that will not vote for either of those two candidates (for different reasons, of course).

loyalfromlondon wrote:
It's amazing to me how much the media is against Hillary (CNN, MSNBC, FOX obviously)

Just goes to show there is a real gender bias against strong women. If Hillary were a man, she'd be running a shrewd and aggressive campaign.

But since she's a woman, it's bitchy and cold and somehow flawed.


I know, this drives me nuts. And all those articles about "crying her way' to the NH win. Someone pundit laughed and said he exhibited more emotions when he can't find his car keys! It like, if she even says the campaign trail is tough people go "Oh no, she won't be tough enough as president." And when she is tough, they call her a "bitch." Its irritating.

There's also always talk about the wife being sort of subservient to the husband in her case, which no one ever thought might happen, say with the governor of California who at the time of his election was just an actor and bodybuilder, while his wife was the big American philanthropist and came from the most prominent political family in the country. Its an idea people get about Hillary that has never been shot at a male politician with a prominent wife (Theresa Heinz, anyone?).

In general the media has gone to true lows this time around. They refuse not to mention at every turn the 'demographic of voters issue' and forgot to, you know, actually spend detailed attention to candidates and their position on issues. Its all just about voter blocs and not, well, national health insurance, economic plans, or even Iraq.


Last edited by dolcevita on Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.



Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:54 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
loyalfromlondon wrote:
on MSNBC, they played every speech in its entirety EXCEPT Clinton's.



And did you notice that on CNN right after they announced Clinton placing second (right after saying it was a close battle for second....) the decided to cover the Republicans in FL immediantly? Mainly McCain and the former GOV of FL's endorsement I think.

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Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:55 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
dolcevita wrote:
I know, this drives me nuts. And all those articles about "crying her way' to the NH win. Someone pundit laughed and said he exhibited more emotions when he can't find his car keys! It like, if she even says the campaign trail is tough people go "Oh no, she won't be tough enough as president." And when she is tough, they call her a "bitch." Its irritating.

There's also always talk about the wife being sort of subservient to the husband in her case, which no one ever thought might happen, say with the governor of California who at the time of his election was just an actor and bodybuilder, while his wife was the big American philanthropist and came from the most prominent political family in the country. Its an idea people get about Hillary that has never been shot at a male politician with a prominent wife (Theresa Heinz, anyone?).


I agree with you about the crying. John Boehner frickin' cried like a baby on the floor of the House because Dems didn't want to fund Bush's war forever (they eventually caved of course). And that wasn't even the first time! It's an entirely unfair criticism of Hillary and is an issue solely because she is a woman and the media like their cliches.

But I think your second point is off the mark. Female and male candidates regularly have their spouses stump for them, but always in a supportive role. Bill's injection into the campaign has been decidedly different in nature. For one thing, he's the former president and speaks as a de facto leader of the party. And his attacks have been on the skeezy side. I think the characterization that he's running for a third term isn't entirely misplaced. And his presence does remind people that he will once again be occupying the WH. None of this would be held against Hillary I don't think if Bill hadn't been so relentless and vicious. It backfired and I'm glad it did.


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:02 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Beeblebrox wrote:
Box wrote:
No person can unite the different racial, religious, and political groups in the United States; generations of Americans working together have not been able to accomplish that.


Obama got more votes in the SC primary that the two top Republican winners COMBINED. He beat Hillary by 30 points.

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And all that talk about changing Washington is utterly ridiculous; change will come in the form of a different administration, which is very welcome, but the system is fundamentally the same. Any changes that will come will come in small increments.


I have never before in my life seen the message of change fall upon such obstinate ears - all Hillary supporters of course. If you're a voter for change, what exactly would you like to see? More of the same ol' attacks and slime like the Clintons and Republicans have been dishing out? Is Obama supposed to run on the "more of the same" platform like all the rest? I just don't get it. You want change. You have exactly one candidate that can deliver it. And you're brutally attacking him for daring to promise it to you. That's just icky.


I agree. But I also understand why Box is questioning Obama's ability to unite Washington in regards to policy. Obama, for instance, would probably argue that he'd be able to get Congress to pass his health care plan easier than Hillary would be able to, but when it comes down it, how is he going to get Republicans to vote for universal health care?

Hillary should be asking questions like these, not bringing up crap about slum landlords.


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:03 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Corpse wrote:
And did you notice that on CNN right after they announced Clinton placing second (right after saying it was a close battle for second....) the decided to cover the Republicans in FL immediantly? Mainly McCain and the former GOV of FL's endorsement I think.


Any predictions on when 9ui11iani will be dropping out? Feb 6?


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:04 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Beeblebrox wrote:
Corpse wrote:
And did you notice that on CNN right after they announced Clinton placing second (right after saying it was a close battle for second....) the decided to cover the Republicans in FL immediantly? Mainly McCain and the former GOV of FL's endorsement I think.


Any predictions on when 9ui11iani will be dropping out? Feb 6?


Right after FL.

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“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:05 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Beeblebrox wrote:
And you're brutally attacking him for daring to promise it to you. That's just icky.



I just read this. I'm absolutely not viciously attacking him. This is the fairest treatment he could receive. There is nothing worse than to listen to the tired rhetoric Obama has been spewing and not critique it as the derivative speech that it is. There is nothing original in what he says, and there wasn't at any time. The only thing in his favour is that the speech of the other candidates, democrat or republican, is even worse, more derivative, more tired.


He's done a great job delivering what he says in a convincing manner. But he's standing out partly because the other candidates are so miserable. All this indicates little more than that you guys in America are terribly off right now.

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MadGez wrote:
Briefs. Am used to them and boxers can get me in trouble it seems. Too much room and maybe the silkiness have created more than one awkward situation.


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Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:09 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
loyalfromlondon wrote:
I'm guessing Rudy drops out on Tuesday, his image can't stand to lose more prestige if he's going to continue to earn $$ for speaking engagements.



What prestige? Since when he began running for US president, it's become more and more obvious that all he's done since 9/11 is exploit the tragedy for his own purposes.

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MadGez wrote:
Briefs. Am used to them and boxers can get me in trouble it seems. Too much room and maybe the silkiness have created more than one awkward situation.


My Box-Office Blog: http://boxofficetracker.blogspot.com/


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:10 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Delegates:

Obama wins 25.
Clinton 12.
Edwards 8.


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:11 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Dkmuto wrote:
I agree. But I also understand why Box is questioning Obama's ability to unite Washington in regards to policy. Obama, for instance, would probably argue that he'd be able to get Congress to pass his health care plan easier than Hillary would be able to, but when it comes down it, how is he going to get Republicans to vote for universal health care?


Despite the rhetoric, Republicans have no aversion whatever to big government. So when it comes down to it, they will vote for it because ultimately that's what the people want. And they can do that behind Obama in a way that they can't do with Hillary simply because their supports hate her so much (yes, unfairly, but they do).

Quote:
Hillary should be asking questions like these, not bringing up crap about slum landlords.


Hillary can't ask those questions because she also supports universal health care and is about the last person in the world who can question anyone on bringing both sides together.


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:12 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
loyalfromlondon wrote:
Dkmuto wrote:

Hillary should be asking questions like these, not bringing up crap about slum landlords.


In her defense, Obama brought up Wal-Mart first. It's not her fault Obama had some shady business dealings.


Except, of course, that he didn't...

But why let facts stand in the way?

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Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:12 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
I'm a little confused. Someone help me out here.

Hillary's saying she still doesn't think delegates from Florida should be counted. But she thinks they should still "matter." Huh?


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:14 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
loyalfromlondon wrote:
So when the Chinese navy decides to invade Taiwan, Obama is going to make a great speech about it?

I trust Hillary 100000% more on issues of national security and foreign policies than Obama.


And Hillary would invade Iran. Or maybe she'd just ask Bush what he'd do and then vote for it like she has on every other foreign policy bill the past 8 years?


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:15 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Dkmuto wrote:
I'm a little confused. Someone help me out here.

Hillary's saying she still doesn't think delegates from Florida should be counted. But she thinks they should still "matter." Huh?


:funny:

The Clinton spin at work!

She is supporting the democrats by saying that the delegates should not be counted at the convention, as per party rules. But since she plans on winning Florida, she wants to be able to brag that she won and that they matter (even though none of the other candidates are on the ballot).

Trying to have it both ways again...

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Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:16 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Dkmuto wrote:
Hillary's saying she still doesn't think delegates from Florida should be counted. But she thinks they should still "matter." Huh?


Hillary supports whatever is good for Hillary. In Iowa, it was the delegates that counted, not the popular vote. In NH, it was the exact opposite.


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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
loyalfromlondon wrote:
So when the Chinese navy decides to invade Taiwan, Obama is going to make a great speech about it?



None of the candidates, Democrat or Republican, are competent when it comes to foreign policy. Americans have absolutely no idea how to deal with a world that is increasingly becoming less dependent on them. I guess Obama would be the best candidate from an international perspective, for no other reason than that he's black and has Hussein as his middle name and had a father from Kenya.

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MadGez wrote:
Briefs. Am used to them and boxers can get me in trouble it seems. Too much room and maybe the silkiness have created more than one awkward situation.


My Box-Office Blog: http://boxofficetracker.blogspot.com/


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:17 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Beeblebrox wrote:
Hillary can't ask those questions because she also supports universal health care and is about the last person in the world who can question anyone on bringing both sides together.


Well yeah, I know. (Was just using health care as an example.)


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:22 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
loyalfromlondon wrote:
on MSNBC, they played every speech in its entirety EXCEPT Clinton's.

And people slated me for saying theres a power disparity between men and women in Hollywood. Its weird how everyone turns a blind eye to the way men get preferential treatment. Women in positions of power or aiming to be im sure feel it though. My female friends occassionally share stories about how they feel discriminated against in certain situations, mainly about the double standards they face.

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Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:28 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
loyalfromlondon wrote:
Groucho wrote:
loyalfromlondon wrote:
Dkmuto wrote:

Hillary should be asking questions like these, not bringing up crap about slum landlords.


In her defense, Obama brought up Wal-Mart first. It's not her fault Obama had some shady business dealings.


Except, of course, that he didn't...

But why let facts stand in the way?


really?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/poli ... b01_layout

Quote:
Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama said Saturday that his campaign would give charities $40,350 in donations linked to his former friend and fundraiser Tony Rezko, a Chicago businessman who has pleaded not guilty to federal influence-peddling and bank fraud charges.

Obama already has divested more than $44,000 in Rezko-affiliated donations during the last year. But Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton said the campaign made a comprehensive review of donations affiliated with Rezko and "found some we'd feel more comfortable not having."

Burton pointed out that other presidential campaigns have disposed of questionable funds, and added, "Our consistent practice in these circumstances is to give the funds to charity out of an abundance of caution."

Obama has not been accused of any wrongdoing and Burton said Obama had no reason to suspect at the time that the donations might be linked to allegations of impropriety. Obama and the campaign have not been questioned by federal agents investigating Rezko, Burton said.

Burton said the new divestments were prompted by a published report Saturday that one $10,000 donation to Obama's 2004 U.S. Senate campaign came from a fraud scheme that Rezko is accused of devising.

Although details of that donation have been made public -- and Obama divested the $10,000 last year -- the candidate has hoped to put questions behind him as he heads toward the Feb. 5 primaries, when 22 states are set to vote.

According to Saturday's Chicago Sun-Times, which cites an unnamed source, Obama was the unnamed "political candidate" referred to in a Dec. 21 court document that accuses Rezko of orchestrating a scheme in which a firm hired to handle state teacher pension investments first had to pay $250,000 in "sham" finder's fees.

From that money, $10,000 was donated to Obama's successful run for the Senate in the name of Glenview entrepreneur Joseph Aramanda, the story said.

Aramanda's attorney, Terence Gillespie, could not be reached for comment Saturday.

Business records show Aramanda once served as chief operating officer of a Rezko company, and Aramanda has been publicly identified as "Individual D" in the pension fraud case against Rezko. Aramanda has not been charged with any crime.

The Tribune had reported that Obama hired Aramanda's son as a 2005 summer intern in Obama's Capitol Hill office after Rezko recommended him.

Obama has denied using his government clout to do favors for Rezko.

As with Aramanda, no charges have been filed against the additional donors whose funds are being divested. None could be reached for comment Saturday evening. Among the donations are:

*$10,500 from Michel Malek, a neurologist and former investor in Rezko Enterprises.

*$2,000 from Fortunee Massuda, a founder of a chain of foot and ankle clinics and a former investor in Rezko Enterprises.

*$3,000 from Imad Almanaseer, a real estate and fast-food impresario and former member of LARC Realty, a Rezko business.

Rezko's trial is scheduled to begin next month. His attorney Joseph Duffy could not be reached for comment Saturday, nor could a spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office in Chicago.


Guess you can't read. I've highlighted the important parts for you.

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Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:28 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Dkmuto wrote:
Beeblebrox wrote:
Hillary can't ask those questions because she also supports universal health care and is about the last person in the world who can question anyone on bringing both sides together.


Well yeah, I know. (Was just using health care as an example.)


The biggest gripe against Obama is that he can't deliver the change he's promising. But we KNOW that Hillary can't deliver change. In so many ways, she represents the politics of the Boomers, just like Bill and George. Old school slime and muck that's supposed to represent "fighting hard to win" to her supporters.

Obama is the candidate for a new generation of voters the way Bill was in 1992. He will have unprecedented support among young people, minorities, the world community, and even Republicans. If there is one candidate who CAN deliver change, it's Obama.


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:31 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
blah blah blah hillary is a stupid bitch cunt blah blah she can't do fuck, shes a lying manipulative shrew blah blah Obama is jesus.

Jesus KJ you should just shoot yourselves before this repetitiveness can't go on and causes a forum meltdown.

The point of regurgitating the same stupid ass arguments against Hillary for like 30 pages is beyond me.

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Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:39 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Michael. wrote:
blah blah blah hillary is a stupid bitch cunt blah blah she can't do fuck, shes a lying manipulative shrew blah blah Obama is jesus.

Jesus KJ you should just shoot yourselves before this repetitiveness can't go on and causes a forum meltdown.

The point of regurgitating the same stupid ass arguments against Hillary for like 30 pages is beyond me.



Damn, you're right! I was giving my opinion!

From now on, I will follow your lead and give no opinion whatsoever. Um, that's true, isn't it? That you have never given your opinion on politics either? I mean, it must be true or else you would be quite the hypocrite, wouldn't you?

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Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:41 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Michael. wrote:
The point of regurgitating the same stupid ass arguments against Hillary for like 30 pages is beyond me.


So it's better to regurgitate the same stupid ass arguments against Obama?


Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:43 pm
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Post Re: Primaries: Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida
Archie Gates wrote:

By the way that Lisa Nova clip earlier was hilarious.

.


I pretty much think that Lisa Nova sums up the entire issues people have with Hillary, Obama and indeed the supporters of each.

I mean as a rule of thumb im slightly leaning towards Hillary, but pushed further towards her by the agressive tactics of Obama fans, not Obama himself.

And Groucho, I don't really have an issue with anyone showing opinions, but it feels like 30 pages in people are really fucking grasping at straws to kick Hillary Clinton down. I am getting tired of seeing the same comments from the same people 14 pages later, just restated more agressively. No one is offering much new in the way of arguments against Hillary or blind support for Obama.

If the same arguments were being made against Obama id actually possibly be more aligned with him. I think that the attacks on Hillary are actually rallying her votes for people who don't like to be aggresively pushed into a voting stance. It feels like Obama fans almost force their support upon people, I don't see that from Hillary fans so much.

Its all CORPORATE AMERICAN BULLSHEET.

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