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Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?
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Author:  Libs [ Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Shack wrote:
Romney wins easily because he has the independents and undecided voters.)


That's already a flaw in your logic, though. How is it 100% that Romney has the undecided voters? That's simply not true or definitive at all.

Author:  Jedi Master Carr [ Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Shack wrote:
Libs, put it this way. There are roughly equal registered Democrats and Republicans in the US (slight edge Repub. I believe, something like +150k). In 2004 the % of that group that showed up to vote was about the same. In 2008 7% more registered Democrats voted than registered Republicans. Not that surprising considering Obama was a a rock star in 2008 that Democrats would have a lot more passion voting, especially considering that race was long over by election day. In the congressional elections in 2010 when the Republicans bounced back vs 08, it went back to about even again.

What the election really depends on is whether it will be a 2008 or 2004/2010 condition turnout wise. If Dems and Repubs show in roughly equal numbers like 04 and 10, Romney wins easily because he has the independents and undecided voters. If 5%+ more Democrats vote Obama's basically a cinch. 3% is probably toss-up zone. Right now the polls saying Obama has this in the bag, are doing so because the polls are punching out that like 5-7% more Dems will vote. State polls are amazingly showing 2-4% INCREASES from 08 in many of the swing states like OH, PA, MN, Iowa, etc., numbers like +8% and +10% for some of them, this is the part that's creating the online WTF and backlash to Nate Silver and co.

Obviously tomorrow night will be the proof, but personally to me logic just screams an even turnout or a slight edge to Republicans. The difference between this and 08 where Obama went god mode activated on the mic and bent McCain over enthusiasm and passion wise at a historical level, is just so obvious, even without the fact that Romney is winning enthusiasm polls and independents which are two of the best signs for turnouts, or 2010 and 2004 being even which are much better comparables to this election, or the shocking Rasmussen and Gallup polls - (The Rasmussen one I mentioned essentially asks "Are you Democrat or Republican or Other", in 04 it was +1.5% Dem, in 08 it was +7.6% Dem, in 10 it was +1.3% Rep, in 12 it's +5.8% Rep, for a swing of +13.4 from 08 in favor of GOP. The 04, 08, 10 Dem/Rep split in turnout followed this poll very closely. Gallup also has essentially a 11% swing in the GOP direction in "likely voter" polls and 15% with leaners)


Not true there are more democrats according to other polls (Gallup) I don't trust Rasumussen. They are run by a conservative think tank and always call more republicans than any other polling agency.

Author:  MadGez [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Romney has very little chance. Obama is basically a lock to win.

Author:  Chippy [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

538 has Obama up over 90%.

Author:  Jedi Master Carr [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

MadGez wrote:
Romney has very little chance. Obama is basically a lock to win.



I wouldn't go a lock. I am thinking 75% but that is because I saw 2000 and know we can have huge messes. Of course, I gave Obama about the same chance 4 years ago.

Author:  xiayun [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

I'm now thinking either 303 or 294 for Obama. 53/47 Senate.

Author:  i.hope [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Shack wrote:
Rasmussen has a +13% swing in party ID from 08 to 12 (from Democrats +7% to Republicans +6%). Gallup has a similar jump in likely voter ID I believe. Rasmussen party ID I believe was right on the money the last 2 elections for the D/R turnout split. There would have to be a difference in turnout vs party ID of like 9% (to Democrats+3) for Obama to have a chance and like +11% to match what the national polls are saying right now (about Democrats +5 or +6)

Right now it just doesn't make sense to me to project Democrats +5 or +6 like most of the national polls are doing, the state polls going even higher than that. Regardless of how they got to those samples, I don't trust them whatsoever. GOP should be as strong turnout wise as 04 and 00 and many signs are pointing towards that like enthusiasm, rallys, independents, etc. It is completely logical that there would be an even split, even without the Ras and Gallup striking numbers in favor of GOP. Maybe Democrats +2% or something but a 5%+ gap just isn't enough of a fall from 08 to makes sense. This smells like Romney shocks the world and whomps to me


So you think there's a systematic bias in all polls other than Rasmussen and Gallup? If that's the case, why do you think they consistently undersampled Republicans? I suppose most polls (including Rasmussen and Gallup) have similar methodology of picking out "likely voters".

The latest Gallup poll had "Independents" split evenly between Obama (46%) and Romney (45%).

Author:  i.hope [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

In Ohio, early voting numbers in Democratic stronghold Cuyahoga county (Cleveland) are encouraging for the Romney camp:

Quote:
As of the day before Election Day, Democratic early votes already in are at 89 percent of their ’08 number while Republicans are at 138 percent of their ’08 early vote total.

So how much of the vote is actually in and how many people will head to the polls? Well, if you were to compare the current Cuyahoga County totals to the actual voter turnout in 2008, Democrats have 37.6 percent of their final vote in ’08, Republicans are at 59.6 percent of theirs and non-partisans are at 26 percent of their vote.

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/political/In-person-early-voting-numbers-down-from-2008-in-Cuyahoga-County#ixzz2BRSTVWHs


Note that Nonpartisan early votes are at 78% of their 2008 early vote total.

Author:  SolC9 [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

This country has already proven to be populated by a bunch of idiots because we elected George W. Bush to not one, but two terms. It's plain to see what that did to our economy and our standing in the international community. I don't doubt that as a country then, we are also dumb enough to elect someone who will do THE SAME DAMN THING and ruin the hard fought gains made over the past few years.

I sincerely hope Obama can pull out the win today.

My prediction

Obama 282
Romney 256

Which is way too close for my liking.

Author:  erikdean [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

xiayun wrote:
I'm now thinking either 303 or 294 for Obama. 53/47 Senate.


303 or 332 for me. It just depends on where America's Penis goes.

Author:  Chippy [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

I have Romney getting 275 in a BEST case scenario.

But I think Obama can get to 300.

Author:  i.hope [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Let me venture a guess:

Romney will get NC, FL, CO, OH, VA.

Obama will get MN, MI, WI, NV, IA, PA, NH.

Electoral College count:

Romney: 275
Obama: 263

I think the states that are legit toss-ups are VA and NH.

I hope I am wrong.

Author:  Libs [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

i.hope wrote:
Let me venture a guess:

Romney will get NC, FL, CO, OH, VA.

Obama will get MN, MI, WI, NV, IA, PA, NH.

Electoral College count:

Romney: 275
Obama: 263

I think the states that are legit toss-ups are VA and NH.

I hope I am wrong.


Um, me too. Romney getting Florida, Colorado, Ohio and Virginia would be, like, a cataclysm and seems fairly unlikely to me. #knockonwood

Author:  Bradley Witherberry [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Looks like there's gonna be a new sheriff in town.

:(

Author:  Libs [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

^ I will feel pretty good about Obama's chances as long as Bradley Witherberry keeps trolling, so there's that.

Author:  SolC9 [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

I'm in Wisconsin, and everyone where I work that I asked voted or are voting for Romney, except me. I didn't expect that. The state is usually close, but usually goes Dem. I'm a little worried Romney can take Wisconsin now.

Author:  xiayun [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Don't see Wisconsin being in play; the last five polls there has Obama up by an average of 5.3%, with him getting over 50% threshold in 4 of them.

Author:  SolC9 [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

xiayun wrote:
Don't see Wisconsin being in play; the last five polls there has Obama up by an average of 5.3%, with him getting over 50% threshold in 4 of them.


Admittedly, my sample size is small, but it still worries me.

Author:  Jedi Master Carr [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

It will probably just be closer than 2008 there, but I think that will be the case everywhere.

Author:  mdana [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

SolC9 wrote:
xiayun wrote:
Don't see Wisconsin being in play; the last five polls there has Obama up by an average of 5.3%, with him getting over 50% threshold in 4 of them.


Admittedly, my sample size is small, but it still worries me.


How did those people vote in 2008? If they voted the same it doesn't mean anything, and even if they switched, the sample size is too small and unscientific.

Going over the polls this weekend, the ones that had Romney doing well (tied or slightly ahead) were overwhelming not consistent with previous presidential election results. They were heavily skewed towards white voters and older voters. Some of the percentages they used like 90% white voters in PA have not been seen in decades.

Author:  Mannyisthebest [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Well Indiana is acting strange in the past few elections

It went Obama in 2008 now it appears it going to Romney by well over 20% this time ???

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/main

Author:  Jedi Master Carr [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Mannyisthebest wrote:
Well Indiana is acting strange in the past few elections

It went Obama in 2008 now it appears it going to Romney by well over 20% this time ???

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/main



It is only 4% of the vote though. I am sure it will get closer. Indiana is a strange state and has shifted several times in the past elections.

Author:  mdana [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Mannyisthebest wrote:
Well Indiana is acting strange in the past few elections

It went Obama in 2008 now it appears it going to Romney by well over 20% this time ???

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/main


Those are heavily Republican areas of Indiana. The Democratic counties have not reported yet.

Author:  Mannyisthebest [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

How does CNN have Florida results when the poll don't close till 8pm?

Author:  i.hope [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gut Check: Who Will Win the White House?

Mannyisthebest wrote:
How does CNN have Florida results when the poll don't close till 8pm?


Those results are from early voting.

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