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Mau
100% That Bitch
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:42 pm Posts: 16898 Location: Monterrey, Mexico
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Re: Avatar [2009]
the lesser evil wrote: I already went nuts over this film in the International numbers thread over in Box Office Bash (I was going to talk numbers only, I got carried away), so I won't do it again here... but I really freaking loved it. Still, this amused me greatly:
_________________ Tongue Pop!
I kneel with Magnus.
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Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:00 pm |
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Goktor Who
Angels & Demons
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:27 pm Posts: 235
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Well, I've seen Avatar twice now.
The 3D was much better the second time round, to the extent where I wonder (in retrospect) whether my first pair of Real-D glasses might have been slightly duff. Once or twice, I noticed a very faint double image, as if light intended for one eye was leaking into the other. It was definitely always 3D - occasionally very fine 3D - but it didn't quite pop or dazzle the way it did the second time.
I loved it, and loved it even more on my second visit. People have complained that this is "just" Pocahontas in space, but don't forget: Disney didn't write Pocahontas. Surely Pocahontas in space is a healthy dose more original than Pocahontas in Virginia, where it always was?
Plus, Why did no one complain that Apocalypse Now was "just" Heart of Darkness retold on the Nung River? Or that West Side Story was "just" Romeo and Juliet set in - I don't know - was it some kind of gay village? Either way - transplanting classic tales to pastures new is a fine venture for a storyteller, and in such cases as these, the question is not how original the story is, but how fresh the take is. And Pandora is about as fresh as it gets.
Yes, the story and characters were very broad-brush. The dialogue wandered into "by numbers" territory a few times, but only when I was too engrossed to do anything but lap it up. When old staples such as "villainous, warmongering vet", "hate-turns-to-love", and, yes, "Dances With Wolves" are wheeled out with such panache, they're no less charming for being familiar. I guess this is just a matter of taste, and it's clear that not everyone will agree with me, but that's my personal experience of film.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if there are two basic groups of cinema viewers: voyeurs and fantasists. Voyeurs go to the cinema to see something happen to someone else. They lose interest in simple characters, just as quickly as they would in real life.
On the other hand, fantasists - guys like me - are daydreaming as much as watching when they visit the cinema. The cinema experience is essentially guided fantasy. They imagine themselves, the objects of their desires, and their real-life enemies transplanted into the bodies of the agonists onscreen. While a voyeur might not care enough about Jake Sully to be emotionally involved in a film like Avatar, the fantasist - emotionally speaking - is Jake Sully, for as long as the Real-D glasses are on. And since one of the dominant themes in this film is "escapism", it seems only fitting that the film would appeal more to the daydreamers among us.
Having said which, the characters weren't entirely 2D. Jake Sully was funny at times, and Giovanni Ribisi was excellent - adding (with his facial expressions) an extra dimension to his character that simply didn't exist in the dialogue as it was written. And the villain, while cartoony, is surely the best nasty, evil-but-fearless warhorse since General Woundwort roared, "It's just a dog, you fools!!" in Watership Down.
Back to the 3D. I'm a sucker for it. In this case, the stereo vision is incredibly immersive. We are thrown into crowded cockpits, layered jungles, glowing night gardens, and busy interiors, which brim (thanks to the transparent screens and heads-up displays) with layers upon layers of mouth-watering 3D. First rate.
Now to Pandora itself. Although a lot of the flora and fauna will be much too "earth-like" for the hardcore sci-fi fans, fantasy lovers will lap up the whole ecosystem of Pandora. Adding bioluminescence to literally everything that lived was a stroke of genius, producing night scenes that rivalled and sometimes outdid the more otherworldly parts of Coraline for sheer, eerily glowing beauty.
For what it's worth, I class almost everything that happened after Jake Sully turned up on Big Bird as the most finely choreographed, adrenaline-soaked action I've ever seen.
Was the film perfect? No, definitely not. The opening left me slightly cold the first time round, because some of the exposition seemed a bit clumsy. There's nothing worse than one character reminding another character of something that she's already meant to know. "Hel-LO Grace! We're here for this, remember? The unobtanium?!" I would have preferred that level of detail to go in the video log voiceovers, since it was quickly established that Jake was using his to just generally explain what was going on.
Also, the Na'vi biology was so human (down to nipples and fingernails) that it was hard to see how the tentacles in the hair could plausibly fit in to their body plan. If they had a less human shape - so the tentacles came out from the flanges on their dorsal carapace, or something - then such an alien bodypart would have been (at the risk of conjuring up images of some seriously niche porn) much easier to swallow. Since the Na'vi were so mystical, I almost would have preferred for them to commune with trees and animals by simply touching them.
Lastly, the Na'vi were a bit too tribal for my liking, to the extent where I never felt convinced that I would enjoy their lifestyle on a full-time basis. I think Jake had the perfect balance when he could temporarily install his brain into a Na'vi, fly a dragon, have it off with his missus, and then wake up and play his Playstation or whatever.
Anyway. I loved this film. I want a trilogy. I would absolutely love it if the Na'vi (led by Jake) had to go on some kind of quest that was totally internal to Pandora in the second film - like, battle some kind of native Saurun from another continent - without the humans returning for a re-match just yet. Really flesh out the mythology of the moon.
A+ from me anyway.
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Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:55 pm |
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BK
Forum General
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:30 am Posts: 7041
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Because it's making so much money it's definitely now become very overrated. If it weren't for the effects where would you be? Oh that's right Pocahontas.
_________________ Calls Ghost Rider + Clash of the Titans = 2x Wrath of the Titans + Ghost Rider 2 Lorax over Despicable Me Men in Black 3 Under 100m Madagascar 3 Under 100m Rise of the Guardians over 250m
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Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:37 am |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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Re: Avatar [2009]
BK wrote: Because it's making so much money it's definitely now become very overrated. If it weren't for the effects where would you be? Oh that's right Pocahontas. And BKB without the B would be BK.
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:45 pm |
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Argos
Z
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm Posts: 7952 Location: Wherever he went, including here, it was against his better judgment.
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Pocahontas 2: Special Effects. I like that.
_________________ "Der Lebenslauf des Menschen besteht darin, dass er, von der Hoffnung genarrt, dem Tod in die Arme tanzt." - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:47 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Argos wrote: Pocahontas 2: Special Effects. I like that. Should I call Spielberg to direct? He's an ace at directing things he doesn't write.
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:49 pm |
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Argos
Z
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm Posts: 7952 Location: Wherever he went, including here, it was against his better judgment.
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Re: Avatar [2009]
I would not want Spielberg to direct Cameron's foolish script.
_________________ "Der Lebenslauf des Menschen besteht darin, dass er, von der Hoffnung genarrt, dem Tod in die Arme tanzt." - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:56 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Argos wrote: I would not want Spielberg to direct Cameron's foolish script. Pocahontas was not written by Cameron, fool.
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:58 pm |
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Argos
Z
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm Posts: 7952 Location: Wherever he went, including here, it was against his better judgment.
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Although 'Avatar' is merely slightly differing from the Pocahontas tale, it is not entirely the same, as you seem to be thinking. What I was talking about, obviously, was Cameron's script: 'Pocahontas 2: Special Effects' alias 'Avatar'.
_________________ "Der Lebenslauf des Menschen besteht darin, dass er, von der Hoffnung genarrt, dem Tod in die Arme tanzt." - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:10 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Argos wrote: Although 'Avatar' is merely slightly differing from the Pocahontas tale, it is not entirely the same, as you seem to be thinking. What I was talking about, obviously, was Cameron's script: 'Pocahontas 2: Special Effects' alias 'Avatar'. Avatar has since been directed.
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:49 pm |
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Argos
Z
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm Posts: 7952 Location: Wherever he went, including here, it was against his better judgment.
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Re: Avatar [2009]
I guess everybody knows that.
_________________ "Der Lebenslauf des Menschen besteht darin, dass er, von der Hoffnung genarrt, dem Tod in die Arme tanzt." - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:25 pm |
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BK
Forum General
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:30 am Posts: 7041
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Chip Munkington wrote: BK wrote: Because it's making so much money it's definitely now become very overrated. If it weren't for the effects where would you be? Oh that's right Pocahontas. And BKB without the B would be BK. And only you cherish internet personalities like religion.
_________________ Calls Ghost Rider + Clash of the Titans = 2x Wrath of the Titans + Ghost Rider 2 Lorax over Despicable Me Men in Black 3 Under 100m Madagascar 3 Under 100m Rise of the Guardians over 250m
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Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:33 pm |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm Posts: 4767
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Was board so went and saw it in 3d for the first time. Still dislike 3d, but Avatar had the 3d I disliked the least out of all 3d films I have viewed. Considered a nap, but then Jake Sully's charm brought me out of my near slumber.
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Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:00 am |
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Argos
Z
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm Posts: 7952 Location: Wherever he went, including here, it was against his better judgment.
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Re: Avatar [2009]
As I saw it, I thought Jake Sully may be similar to what I assume Chipmunky is like 'in real life'. So, naturally, I did not like his charm.
_________________ "Der Lebenslauf des Menschen besteht darin, dass er, von der Hoffnung genarrt, dem Tod in die Arme tanzt." - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:32 am |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm Posts: 4767
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Argos wrote: As I saw it, I thought Jake Sully may be similar to what I assume Chipmunky is like 'in real life'. So, naturally, I did not like his charm. Oh, I felt the same way and meant it tongue-in-cheek. In reality, I only decided to not sleep due to the $11 ticket. I thought Sully was the epitome of bland and was relieved when the film was over.
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Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:39 pm |
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Argos
Z
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm Posts: 7952 Location: Wherever he went, including here, it was against his better judgment.
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Re: Avatar [2009]
I am somewhat relieved to hear that.
_________________ "Der Lebenslauf des Menschen besteht darin, dass er, von der Hoffnung genarrt, dem Tod in die Arme tanzt." - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:43 pm |
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Jesus Christ
INRI
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:40 am Posts: 666 Location: Bethlehem, Nazareth, The Cross, Heaven, Earth
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Re: Avatar [2009]
ich bin manchwas wiederverlsiert zu hören das.
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:47 pm |
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Argos
Z
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm Posts: 7952 Location: Wherever he went, including here, it was against his better judgment.
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Re: Avatar [2009]
Ich bin entlichtet zu sehen dass du bist noch lebendig, auch.
_________________ "Der Lebenslauf des Menschen besteht darin, dass er, von der Hoffnung genarrt, dem Tod in die Arme tanzt." - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:31 pm |
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matatonio
Teh Mexican
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:56 pm Posts: 26066 Location: In good ol' Mexico
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Re: Avatar [2009]
i saw it like 2 weeks ago and i must say its quite frankly one of the most beautiful movies i ever seen.
A+
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Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:36 pm |
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snack
Extraordinary
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:18 pm Posts: 12159
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Re: Avatar [2009]
you are wasting your eyes
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:15 am |
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Mandeep
The Dark Knight
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:22 pm Posts: 740
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Re: Avatar [2009]
^looking at your face...
_________________ ACH! Unsere Unterseeboot sind stiehlen mit eine dog und baby und Art Garfunkel!
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:00 pm |
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Corpse
Don't Dream It, Be It
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:45 pm Posts: 37152 Location: The Graveyard
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Re: Avatar [2009]
xiayun wrote: Well, both the bads and goods stood out. The screenplay is certainly nothing special. It follows a familiar plot with a lot of one dimensional characters. The bad guys are bad who were shouting out bad one liners with no redeeming qualities throughout. Also the political messages (or sarcasm such as "we will fight terror with terror with preemptive strikes") and environmental messages are definitely not subtle, and there are several blatant tear-jerking attempts with slow-motions and background music. This is no LOTR or TDK in terms of screenplay, but at least Cameron avoided ill-attempted jokes or making protagonists keep rising from near death.
That being said, good story is not really the point we're seeing the film here, is it? We want visuals and actions, and on both fronts, it's near perfection. It's like Jurassic Park meets LOTR, in 3D. The world Cameron created was immense and gorgeous. I know it's CGI, but it's very much worthy of a Cinematography nomination. The actions are intense with fine editing. After feeling dragged somewhat in the first 100 minutes especially since the story didn't get me, the last hour went by in a blink of the eye.
Overall, still very much recommendable. B+. I agree with xiayun's review. But to add to it... I liked the story. Sure, it's been done several times before, but I'm not tired of it yet.
_________________Japan Box Office “Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.” “We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.” “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” “You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.” "Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."
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Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:43 am |
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Johnny Dollar
The Lubitsch Touch
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 pm Posts: 11019
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Re: Avatar [2009]
omg we're not still talking about this nonsense are we?
_________________ k
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Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:46 am |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm Posts: 4767
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Re: Avatar [2009]
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:22 pm |
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OscarEkdahl
Full Fledged Member
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:54 pm Posts: 78
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Re: Avatar [2009]
according to Giovanni Ribisi the cat should be a monkey, other than that this appears correct.
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:41 pm |
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