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 The Little Mermaid weekend thread 
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Race is a factor in many Asian markets. There's little/no speculation involved there. And not much (or anything?) is playing in Russia, right? Russia backed off some in the 2010s as a growing market, but it's still missing money films before 2022 benefitted from.

China + South Korea + Russia probably shaved off a ~$150 million chunk from the overseas box office in The Little Mermaid's case.

And you still have to remember that the US dollar is very strong now, making exchange rates varying degrees of bad in many markets. Many of the $1 billion earners of 2019 (Far From Home, Aladdin, Toy Story 4, Star Wars 9, Captain Marvel) would have grossed under $1 billion with the modern exchange rates. $800/900 million is sort of the new $1 billion. It's a LOT harder for films with $200-300 million budgets to make a noticeable profit these days. Mario is very likely the only film that will earn over $1 billion until Summer 2024.

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Mon May 29, 2023 10:43 am
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
zwackerm wrote:
The issue is budgets. It’s unreasonable for Disney to budget everything so that it has to gross a billion to make significant profit.


Bingo

Like Mermaid is a success, if the budget wasn’t so extreme

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Mon May 29, 2023 10:44 am
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
zwackerm wrote:
The issue is budgets. It’s unreasonable for Disney to budget everything so that it has to gross a billion to make significant profit.


well let's all not forget the movies making Disney shit ton of $$$ via memorabilias and such. maybe why they're okay with spending $200 million + on live action remakes & animations.

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Mon May 29, 2023 10:49 am
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
Darth Indiana Bond wrote:
I think the “go woke, go broke” isn’t getting at the issue.
How else do you explain Black Panther and Captain Marvel being the lowest grossing Marvel movies ever? And how the new Ghostbusters, which had MEN, made 800 billion more than the one with vaginas everywhere? Stop believing the media's lies you libtard!!


:funny: :funny: :funny:

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Mon May 29, 2023 11:09 am
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Algren wrote:
Darth Indiana Bond wrote:
I think the “go woke, go broke” isn’t getting at the issue.


As with everything there is never just one factor, but I believe Disney's foray down the wokeness trail in recent years is a major factor turning people off their releases.


fuck those people :roll: seriously

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Mon May 29, 2023 11:11 am
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
    DisneyPlus revenue top 10

    COUNTRY
    # of subscribers
    Currency
    Cost Per month
    Revenue Per year

    India 52,000,000 RS 299 186,576,000,000
    United States 42,000,000 US dollar 7.99 4,026,960,000
    Brazil 8,000,000 BRL 27.9 2,678,400,000
    United Kingdom 7,500,000 pound 7.99 719,100,000
    Mexico 6,000,000 MXN 159 11,448,000,000
    Indonesia 6,000,000 Rp 39000 2,808,000,000,000
    Germany 5,000,000 euro 8.99 539,400,000
    Canada 4,400,000 CAD 11.99 633,072,000
    Australia 3,700,000 AUD 11.99 532,356,000
    Japan 3,600,000 Yen 900 38,880,000,000



The significance of Disney's theatrical movies in terms of content for DisneyPlus cannot be emphasized enough. Maintaining subscriptions is crucial, and if a high-budget film has the potential to maintain or boost subscription rates, it could prove to be a valuable long-term investment.

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Mon May 29, 2023 11:16 am
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Rev wrote:
Algren wrote:
Darth Indiana Bond wrote:
I think the “go woke, go broke” isn’t getting at the issue.


As with everything there is never just one factor, but I believe Disney's foray down the wokeness trail in recent years is a major factor turning people off their releases.


fuck those people :roll: seriously


If you want to make less money, sure, fuck those people. But capitalists don't agree. Disney is trying to shape capitalism to their whims, but it isn't working.

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Mon May 29, 2023 11:26 am
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
But does a white, red-headed little mermaid really increase the gross? Do you gain more money from racist families then you would lose from black families? I dunno about that.

I will agree that Disney constantly being in the headliners for political reasons is not good for the brand, even if they usually are on the right side.

But still, the political stuff is nothing compared to the damage they did to themselves with the day/date Disney Plus releases.


Mon May 29, 2023 11:40 am
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Solid for Mermaid though of course would have loved more.

It will take 1 more year but most of the budgets we've seen the last 2 years were so Covid impacted that take -25% I'd do as a rough estimate on what it normally would have been so have to give studios and crew some grace for still finishing the project through it vs scrapping entirely.


Last edited by O on Mon May 29, 2023 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon May 29, 2023 12:22 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
But does a white, red-headed little mermaid really increase the gross? Do you gain more money from racist families then you would lose from black families? I dunno about that.


You made it highly simplistic with that unfair comment. Not wanting to see it because Ariel isn't white doesn't mean you are a racist. Just the same as I wouldn't see a Rambo movie with Rambo not played by Stallone. It's what I grew up with, and it's all I will accept. Similarly, the only additional people that will see this new Ariel are not black. It's more than a race thing even if race is involved.

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Mon May 29, 2023 12:37 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
But does a white, red-headed little mermaid really increase the gross?


Whether it's right or not, yes, I do believe a true to form live action remake would have made more. Significantly more. Certainly overseas.

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Mon May 29, 2023 12:50 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Algren wrote:
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
But does a white, red-headed little mermaid really increase the gross? Do you gain more money from racist families then you would lose from black families? I dunno about that.


You made it highly simplistic with that unfair comment. Not wanting to see it because Ariel isn't white doesn't mean you are a racist. Just the same as I wouldn't see a Rambo movie with Rambo not played by Stallone. It's what I grew up with, and it's all I will accept. Similarly, the only additional people that will see this new Ariel are not black. It's more than a race thing even if race is involved.



Agree with Algren. If they remade Lord of the Rings and made it 'diverse' so that some of the main cast looks like me, I would be pissed. Yes, it's fantasy and not real but the tone and aesthetic of that world does not call for diversity. The movie experience then becomes distracting and not immersive because I'm thinking about how it's become politicized. I don't think I'm being racist (in this example, against my own kind) for not wanting everything to be inclusive.

You can see in Little Mermaid how strategic they were about it all. In almost every scene where a white male (mostly Eric) was the center of the action, they were very intentional about making sure multiple races or genders were visible in those scenes. Check for yourself. There are stipulations like Inclusion Riders which mandate these contrivances, especially for the big budget films. I'm not saying the intention is wrong, it isn't...it's just very irritating. LOL

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Mon May 29, 2023 12:54 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
I am an Asian living in Asia, and I always find it unsettling whenever ideas about race and ethnicity in Asia are analyzed by Western or Western-influenced people. It always results in some form of Western ethnocentrism. The tendency is to think of Asia as some kind of monolith rather than a cornucopia of disparate cultures.

The colonial influence, which I am assuming refers to white colonial influence, applies to some long Europeanized cultures such as the Philippines. Standards of beauty there are linked to deeply ingrained Spanish and American influence.

However, notions of beauty in other Asian cultures are derived not from white colonialism or anything to do with race. Ethnicity rather than race is a more apt concept. Asians cultures are able to distinguish themselves from each other, thank you. We don't see ourselves collectively as "the Asian race" or "yellow-skinned".

Lightening agents in cosmetics in many Asian markets aren't popular because these people want to look "white." Fair skin is associated with wealth. While the aristocratic class stayed indoors, the peasant class had to toil in the sun. This is what was aspirational for many.

Also, for countries that experienced some form of colonialism but barely had any well-established white social class, fair skin is not seen as the domain of white beauty standards. Instead, in many of these countries, such as Indonesia and Malaysia, the wealthy class is mostly composed of Chinese people, and so fair skin would equal Chinese beauty standards.

Now, of course, Korean beauty standards are predominant in many regions of Asia. Many people here want to look Korean, not "white". I find it rather quaint that people outside of Asia seem to think that American or European beauty standards are considered aspirational here.

Sorry, but I just find it annoying whenever cliches (lightening cosmetics, celebrity beauty standards, colonialism) about the "Asian" treatment of race and ethnicity are trotted out. Most of the time, it's simply the inability to see the world beyond a Western perspective.


Mon May 29, 2023 1:08 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
I just can't see this movie opening much higher when $95M fits all the box office trends we've seen this year. People are sick of Disney and superheroes. That's why they turned to Super Mario Bros: an animated movie about a normal guy who gets special abilities and uses them to defeat an evil villain and save the world.


Mon May 29, 2023 1:56 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
I just can't see this movie opening much higher when $95M fits all the box office trends we've seen this year.

A little high but still more realistic :yes:

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Mon May 29, 2023 1:58 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
lilmac wrote:
Check for yourself.
Nah the discussion of culture and cultural consequences is much more entertaining. It'll keep us occupied until the next real movie, Spiderverse, comes out on Thursday.


...A movie with a traditionally white character that became black and nobody got upset about it. Weird.


Mon May 29, 2023 1:59 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Whoa! Hypnotic was -95% for the third weekend. :hahaha:

I know it dropped a ton of theatres, but still. A big percentage to see.

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Mon May 29, 2023 2:13 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
lilmac wrote:
Check for yourself.
Nah the discussion of culture and cultural consequences is much more entertaining. It'll keep us occupied until the next real movie, Spiderverse, comes out on Thursday.


...A movie with a traditionally white character that became black and nobody got upset about it. Weird.


Probably has something to do with Peter Parker still being white and allowed to exist at the same time not only in his own franchise, but as a supporting character in Miles’ series.


Mon May 29, 2023 2:17 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
This is a good number domestically. Not amazing, not poor, but good. Any argument in favor of anything but this middle ground is just people trying to prove a point of some kind. Hard to take their analysis too seriously.

It wasn't going to do anything near Lion King or Beauty and the Beast, even with an AI generated Ariel that matched the cartoon character down to the very pixel. Those two films (originals) are widely regarded as Disney's very best and/or most popular (especially Lion King). Their live-action counterparts had much higher potential than any other, and nothing will come near them moving forward.

Mermaid doing a little better than Aladdin's OW is a notable accomplishment. Not a home run given the margin, but it still did so with a lot of negativity weighing it down. I can't find it now, but I think I saw that 68% (don't quote me) of Mermaid's audience was female this weekend. Not unexpected since Mermaid has always been the more "little girl" movie of Disney's big animated films, but it's important to note since not having as much appeal to boys or men would naturally put a ceiling on it too.

It feels like some are finding any bit of data that backs up their reasoning on why this is a "bad number" and why Disney was wrong with its casting. Some just wanted this film to flop, being oddly invested in it doing so. Nothing short of $150 million 4-day was probably going to prevent this thinking I believe now, and heck, I'm sure there'd still be the "It couldn't even beat Beauty's OW with an extra day! FLOP!" crowd too.

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Mon May 29, 2023 2:23 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Yes, that all makes sense. Well said. The Little Mermaid has always been so female skewing - no male I know has seen the original. So $95 million is pretty good, and as I said earlier, it's a huge number for any film when you take away context and expectations.

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Mon May 29, 2023 3:15 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
The numbers is saying 117.5 4 day

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Mon May 29, 2023 4:13 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Grats to Guardians for $300M. It looked like $250M might not even happen after that poor opening day but it shows that franchises don't have to be super frontloaded if they deliver something that audiences love.


Mon May 29, 2023 4:28 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Shack wrote:
Fast X is a minority-tilted film that's doing better internationally than domestic, so it's hard for me to say racism is why TLM flopped internationally. Maybe it has as much to do with masculinity as race that the mermaid movie doesn't sell everywhere.


The "problem" with Little Mermaid is that audiences around the world always identified Ariel as being a white redhead girl. And people in Asia, Latin America, Middle East do not like black people, those societies can be openly racist to a degree that would shock Americans, and I think there's a "that's not my Ariel" factor going on with audiences in those places. Fast & Furious is different because they are not replacing a character who was white before with a black actor. Also, Vin Diesel may technically be mixed but in most of the world he's going to be considered a white American man.

I also think audiences around the world are significantly more racist against black women than black men. There have been black male draws around the world, from Eddie Murphy to Will Smith to audiences accepting Black Panther. But black women? Even films that did well domestically with black women leads like Us, Hidden Figures bombed overseas. So I think unfortunately that's also playing into things with Little Mermaid. They might not have cared as much if they made the prince black but kept Ariel a white girl.

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Last edited by Barrabás on Mon May 29, 2023 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon May 29, 2023 6:31 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
lilmac wrote:
Algren wrote:
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
But does a white, red-headed little mermaid really increase the gross? Do you gain more money from racist families then you would lose from black families? I dunno about that.


You made it highly simplistic with that unfair comment. Not wanting to see it because Ariel isn't white doesn't mean you are a racist. Just the same as I wouldn't see a Rambo movie with Rambo not played by Stallone. It's what I grew up with, and it's all I will accept. Similarly, the only additional people that will see this new Ariel are not black. It's more than a race thing even if race is involved.



Agree with Algren. If they remade Lord of the Rings and made it 'diverse' so that some of the main cast looks like me, I would be pissed. Yes, it's fantasy and not real but the tone and aesthetic of that world does not call for diversity. The movie experience then becomes distracting and not immersive because I'm thinking about how it's become politicized. I don't think I'm being racist (in this example, against my own kind) for not wanting everything to be inclusive.

You can see in Little Mermaid how strategic they were about it all. In almost every scene where a white male (mostly Eric) was the center of the action, they were very intentional about making sure multiple races or genders were visible in those scenes. Check for yourself. There are stipulations like Inclusion Riders which mandate these contrivances, especially for the big budget films. I'm not saying the intention is wrong, it isn't...it's just very irritating. LOL


That's what Amazon did with Rings of Power and well....

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Mon May 29, 2023 6:35 pm
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Post Re: The Little Mermaid weekend thread
Again, Corpse and Zwack are both right. This was a moderate success if a bit disappointing, but due to its budget and prior expectation levied on it from Disney’s unparalleled dominance in the late 2010s, people will spin it as a disaster, when in reality it is one of the highest Memoir weekend openers ever.

That being said, it does seem like its overseas performance might be another tale. Not sure, as I don’t want to give it a narrative without knowing more details.

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