Episode had some good elements but yeah, this show is so frustrating.

Negan so far is more annoying than interesting/menacing.

Does that make it okay?

This was a case in sadism. Negan spends a whole minute mocking Glenn as his head is bashed open and his eyeball is nearly popped loose. It's the show mocking the audience for investing in the characters.

That's going to lose some people.

I thought it was incredible.

"Red Wedding is the best TV episode Everrrrr omggggg"
"Walking Dead crossed a line!"

*Harrumph*

I really don't know how I feel about the backlash on this one. People are saying they crossed a line. It's a show about flesh-eating zombies. People have been ripped apart on the show. Other humans have been viciously violent, including and especially Rick. This isn't NCIS. You kind of come to expect gruesome brutality.

Meanwhile the same people who are complaining about the brutality of the two deaths (well... one of them... I don't hear much of a peep about Abraham) were the same people complaining we didn't see who got their head bashed in during the finale.

I do get the basic arguments. I did feel sick to my stomach last night, and I'm not sure I enjoyed the feeling. But I get why they did it. And honestly, this show could not continue without Negan. It has had some good episodes and storylines the last two seasons, but it was treading water. This was a game changer.

I think I may have felt most sick to my stomach at how our hero, or anti-hero, was reduced to a shell of a man. It was tough watching Rick not be Rick Grimes.

Yep. You nailed it. I thought the episode was great. I did not enjoy the feeling I had while watching it, which makes me believe that they did exactly the right thing. They shook us.

Negan is a sadist. That's fine. And no more sadistic than stabbing Robb Stark's pregnant wife in the stomach, except that in GoT the makers decided to up the ante on brutality from the book.

I thought Abraham's death was too tame. Glad they didn't pull punches on Glenn. Could have been even more violent.

So is Ramsay Bolton, yet the show didn't mock Sansa as he raped her.

There's a character being sadistic and a show being sadistic. GAME OF THRONES has never crossed the line into being sadism -- when deaths of good characters happen, the show doesn't revel in it. When the Red Wedding happened, the show was on the Starks' side.

THE WALKING DEAD crossed that line last night because it was on Negan's side.

It's not like I'm mad at the show for hurting me. I gave up on it in Season 5. I'd simply heard in June that Negan killed Abraham and Glenn, and I wanted to see the execution of it.

holier than thou the dark shape

The show was on Negan's side? Really? Just because they showed Negan more than any other character last night, except Rick, doesn't mean it was all on his side. The show is firmly on the side of Rick and the rest of our main characters. We sympathized with Rick. We were devastated with Rick. We want Rick to get revenge.

Fantastic start. All bets are off. Gut wrenching at times. And screw all those that don't care about Abraham (I mean I could guess it would have been him with the "take it like a champ" line but I loved him. And them the double whammy. Just Carol, Daryl, Rick, and Carl remain)

Great acting by Andrew in this episode. Though everyone was great. JDM was good, but no one will ever top The Governor IMO. I do like that JDM is so open about who he is though. No hidden skeletons that the last few villains have had.

Same for me, only I gave up much earlier. However, the assessment that it was on Negan's side is downright ridiculous.

Well the true originals are Rick, Glenn and Morgan. Those are the only three characters to technically be there from the start (Glenn's voice is heard at the end of the pilot). But more so than Morgan, Glenn is definitely one of the originals and it feels weird that he's gone.

To get even more technical, Norman Reedus and Melissa McBride were not main cast members in Season 1. So the only real originals left are Andrew Lincoln and Chandler Riggs.

The acting was definitely stellar, to me, especially from Andrew and Lauren. I think both could have verged on over-acting in any other episode, but honestly, I felt crazy emotions from losing TV characters. If that was real life, I think their reactions would be real raw and honest.

I think if the show as on HBO, Starz or Showtime, I think there would be less complaints about the graphic killing but TWD has shown worse when Noah was ripped apart by zombies

I am so glad I stopped watching this show years ago It is the definition of TV clickbait.

Although the uproar the premiere is causing is pretty insane/impressive for a show that's been on so long.

I thought it was an all time TWD episode, Glenn's death was horrifying but in a good way, the eyeball popping out was one hell of a touch and I loved the shot with Negan putting the final smashes on in the headlights. But maybe it's because I already knew Glenn and Abraham were dying, i think the scene with Rick and Carl's arm had an even bigger impact on me, I thought he was going to do it the whole way and Andrew Lincoln's acting was great

Who of the current characters do you think will survive the series finale (in ten years or so)? I think Carl, Maggie and Carol are the only ones I consider safe.

I would have bet money that Maggie wouldn't survive the season, but after that, it would be too cruel to kill o----umm... nevermind. Maybe shouldn't suggest that.

I say Daryl is safe too. If they haven't done it yet, I don't think they will.

I forgot to mention how heartbreaking it was that Glenn's last moments were garbling "Maggie, I'll find you", which is either a callback to when they were separated, or just a brain-damaged thought that he'll find and save her.

Speaking of callbacks, the episode title is a callback to the Season 1 finale, when Rick tells Dr. Jenner he is grateful, to which Dr. Jenner replies "The day will come when you won't be". Bleak.

Daryl and Rick are prime material to die some heroic death in the final season.

That begs the question: when will the show end? The producers have said they have storylines prepped for at least Season 10. Is it wise to treat this less like a serialized drama and more like a soap opera? There's no real precedent for a cable drama to hit double digit seasons, and unless the show nose dives in the ratings, there's no reason to suggest they should stop. But I'd rather they wrap it up and not just keep going, just because it can. It's not the comic book. It can't go forever.

Actually the producer indicated that they have the storylines planned through Season 12.

That wasn't any more sadistic than, say, what they did Grey Wind's head.