Such huge paragraphs to read on this page everyday....I mean what happened to being "crisp and precise"?
Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:26 pm
Corpse
Don't Dream It, Be It
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:45 pm Posts: 37152 Location: The Graveyard
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Jack Sparrow wrote:
Such huge paragraphs to read on this page everyday....I mean what happened to being "crisp and precise"?
I think you mean huge paragraphs to ignore. It's the same ole, same ole. Not much to really read or discuss that hasn't already in the past year, just a bit more "I'm right, you're wrong" and "liberal/conservative bad, liberal/conservative good" going on lately. Nothing to see in here.
“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.” “We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.” “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” “You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.” "Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."
Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:01 am
Jack Sparrow
KJ's Leading Idiot
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:15 pm Posts: 36923
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Haha true its so repetitive though put in different words. At times its exhausting but recently its like scrolling through pages on information just to check if people are adhering to decent conversation convention(s) lol.
Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:10 am
Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 37995
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
I agree the Republican party was despicable not very long ago (Warhawks, anti-gay marriage bible thumpers, etc.) but they have changed a lot even from Bush era to Trump, it's basically a new party now hence why people like Bush were exiled from the RNC, and Trump hates McCain but the Democrats ran a tribute for them at their convention. Of course you can claim Trump made it an even worse party if you want, but that's a different discussion.
It's not true that the Republicans have always been on the anti progress side and the Democrats on the right side. As zwackerm said the Republicans freed the slaves and dominated the black vote until the late 1920s/early 1930s when black voters switched to Democrat. The Democrats were the ones who put the Japanese in internment camps. I believe civil rights is a mixed bag for Democrats as JFK and Lyndon B Johnson were good for it, but the Democrats owned the most racist part of the country in the South (the “Dixiecrats”), as a result the Republicans voted stronger for the Civil Rights Act in the House and the Senate and the southern Democrats in the Senate filibustered for 75 days to block it. I believe Republicans led the way in women's suffrage which makes sense in an era where they were also the more black friendly party. There is many situations where the Republicans have also been on the wrong side, but the Democrats record is not spotless.
I did not learn until recent months how much riots, looting, destruction, arson, and mob rule occurred back in the 60s to spur policy action, and had ignorantly accepted the false narrative that it was mainly peaceful protests decades ago that lead to policy change. Just like many people still aren’t realizing the difference between the peacefulness strategy of BLM during last decade not really affecting much, versus this year the mob violence, looting and destruction being the major difference in shifting political action and big business support.
No, the riots didn't help the civil rights movement in the 60s, that's the narrative that is wrong. The worst riots were in 1967 and then 1968 after MLK's death. The civil rights movement had already passed all its most important milestones by then. Rosa Parks refused to give up seat in 1955 and the most important milestones were in the ten years after that leading to the Civil Rights Act and Civil Rights Voting Acts passed in 1964 and 1965. Another way you can tell they were ineffective is that the late 60s riots were about police much like the current ones are, but did it have any real impact on policing laws, or stop things like Rodney King from happening? No. Finally I would point out that there were many race riots before the civil rights movement, for example after WWI there were many eventually leading to the Tulsa massacre I believe, but none of them led to civil rights like the peaceful protesting in the 60s. MLK's vision of non-violent protesting was effective, rioting was not. The only thing the rioting did was help cities like Detroit go in the shitter. I can't see how violence ever helps because anyone with money and common sense wouldn't want to live in a place they aren't safe, and every time you burn down a business there's a good chance they're going to rebulid it somewhere else. Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, New York, etc. will likely suffer greatly in the long term from this year as many business owners or scared white and black middle class people have decided to get out, and in general every time property is damaged it takes money away from either the people or the city.
Birmingham riot of 1963 => Civil Rights Act in 1964 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_riot_of_1963 (see the Significance section for details of how fear of the black mobs convinced JFK to finally propose a major civil rights bill)
Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:14 am
Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 37995
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Alex Y. wrote:
Shack wrote:
Alex Y. wrote:
I did not learn until recent months how much riots, looting, destruction, arson, and mob rule occurred back in the 60s to spur policy action, and had ignorantly accepted the false narrative that it was mainly peaceful protests decades ago that lead to policy change. Just like many people still aren’t realizing the difference between the peacefulness strategy of BLM during last decade not really affecting much, versus this year the mob violence, looting and destruction being the major difference in shifting political action and big business support.
No, the riots didn't help the civil rights movement in the 60s, that's the narrative that is wrong. The worst riots were in 1967 and then 1968 after MLK's death. The civil rights movement had already passed all its most important milestones by then. Rosa Parks refused to give up seat in 1955 and the most important milestones were in the ten years after that leading to the Civil Rights Act and Civil Rights Voting Acts passed in 1964 and 1965. Another way you can tell they were ineffective is that the late 60s riots were about police much like the current ones are, but did it have any real impact on policing laws, or stop things like Rodney King from happening? No. Finally I would point out that there were many race riots before the civil rights movement, for example after WWI there were many eventually leading to the Tulsa massacre I believe, but none of them led to civil rights like the peaceful protesting in the 60s. MLK's vision of non-violent protesting was effective, rioting was not. The only thing the rioting did was help cities like Detroit go in the shitter. I can't see how violence ever helps because anyone with money and common sense wouldn't want to live in a place they aren't safe, and every time you burn down a business there's a good chance they're going to rebulid it somewhere else. Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, New York, etc. will likely suffer greatly in the long term from this year as many business owners or scared white and black middle class people have decided to get out, and in general every time property is damaged it takes money away from either the people or the city.
Birmingham riot of 1963 => Civil Rights Act in 1964 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_riot_of_1963 (see the Significance section for details of how fear of the black mobs convinced JFK to finally propose a major civil rights bill)
My mistake for not including the 1968 bill as the last major bill, however I still believe the needle moved the most during the less violent late 50s and early 60s - the 1968 bill was built off the back of earlier progress, even if the rioting pushed them ahead a bit. In the early 60s the public support was with the civil rights movement, by 1968 they turned on it and elected Nixon on a law and order message to stop the violence, hence the increased violence arguably backfired and led to the end of the movement.
The Birmingham riot in 1963 may have contributed, but the non-violent protesting was very strong in early 60s and MLK gave I gave a dream speech in 1963, so it’s hard to say the violence was the reason (and as I mentioned race riots had been going on a long time before the 60s and didn’t make change). Likewise I will consider Kaepernick’s protest to end up being more effective than Ferguson or the current riots at the end of the day as I see Kaep as having done much more to get people on the side of BLM and get people talking about the issues while the current violence is turning them off it.
Mob Rule: We rioted, give us A. both Republican and Democrat politicians: Ok we give you A Mob Rule: hmm rioting works, let's riot again: Now I want B. Democrat politicians: Ok I give you B. Also please ask for C, and we'll allow more rioting. If you get arrested, we'll set you free immediately without bail to continue rioting, while we will arrest anyone who dares act in self-defense against you. Republican politicians: No more, we're going to arrest you are try to keep you jailed to stop the riots.
Above applies to: * Democrat and Republican presidents in the 60's * Trump and Biden (Trump's executive order on police reform being Trump's A, B being defunding the police, and C being the the big leftward shift in Biden's proposed policies after the June riots) * local governments currently (eg Lancaster setting bail at $1 million to immediately end riots)
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:28 pm
Flava'd vs The World
The Kramer
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:36 am Posts: 23778 Location: Classified
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Romney said he will support the nominee. A woman who has said her goal is to end the seperation of church and state. Wonderful.
If Moscow Mitch can just change the consitution whenever he feels like it, then what is the point of even having one? RIP American Democracy 1787 - 2020. Congrats Pubs, you did it.
Also, Zwack, the parties switched ideologies in the 30s. The Republican party of today is the Dixicrat party of 1860.
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:13 pm
zwackerm
Hold the door!
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm Posts: 20345 Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
Romney said he will support the nominee. A woman who has said her goal is to end the seperation of church and state. Wonderful.
If Moscow Mitch can just change the consitution whenever he feels like it, then what is the point of even having one? RIP American Democracy 1787 - 2020. Congrats Pubs, you did it.
Also, Zwack, the parties switched ideologies in the 30s. The Republican party of today is the Dixicrat party of 1860.
Where on earth do you get that from? The supposed racist south voted Democrat all the way up to the 1980s.
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:41 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
zwackerm wrote:
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
zwackerm wrote:
I love when people make straw man arguments like “Republicans are against human rights!” And “Democrats are for hunan rights!” Lol.
Yet you've never provided any evidence to the contrary...
They call Black Lives Matter a terrorist organization. They put a travel ban on Muslim countries. They booted transgenders out of the military.
This is just the current conservative party though. Perhaps they have a better record in the past.
Gay marriage? Oh no, gays will destroy our way of life.
Civil Rights? Nope, the blacks will destroy our way of life.
Women's suffrage? Nope, chicks voting will destroy our way of life
Slavery? Nope, over eight hundred thousand American soldiers had to die to make any progess on the issue. Then they continued to treat blacks like dogs for the next hundred years.
Conservative Romans when some guy is preaching a new way of looking at God? They killed him.
So yes, that's why I say the Republicans (the current conservative party) always put up a fight when it comes to giving people besides themselves more rights. They hold back the entire country with all their bullshit. People can be like "oh we should all work together" but they have no interest in that.
They allowed people like Trump and Moscow Mitch to ascend to the very highest levels of government. There is no hope for these people. I'd love to find some rational conservatives to come together and fix what ails our nation, but its never gonna hapen. I'm ready to put the whole lot of them into a rocket and shoot it towards Andromeda.
They call the rioters terrorists but most Republicans think BLM has good aims it goes about badly. Trans people were banned due to medical costs, and this has since been overturned and they’re allowed in now. Countries that happened to be both Muslim majority and dangerous were banned temporarily, many dozens more Muslim majority countries were NOT banned. How is that “banning Muslims”? Democrats did not support gay marriage until the Obama administration, and Republicans have largely taken a libertarian approach since acceptance of LGBT issues became mainstream in the late 00’s early 10’s. It was the Democrat party that was against civil rights for blacks lol. Republicans were not against the right to vote for women. Again, it was Democrats who were for slavery.
But if you wanna believe your tin foil hat fantasy of what Republicans believe and have believed, feel free.
There is so much falsity and twisting of facts. But it is so easy to refute.
The Republik Party, not the Democrat Party, wanted to monitor transgenders in public bathrooms with their bathroom bills.
The Republik Party supported state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage and civil unions. Republikans used this as a wedge issue against Democrats in 2004.
Trump himself called for a "total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States".
If Republikans truly agree with the good aims of BLM, work with Democrats on police reform and reducing racial disparities. If they want to do something about street violence, why block the bill on universal background checks on gun purchases, which is supported by over 80% of the public?
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:33 pm
Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 37995
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Trump chooses Amy Coney Barrett
This is a trap for the Democrats. He wants to bait them into maximum ugliness by them attacking a Catholic mother of 7, and he wants BLM to burn down churches and say white women shouldn't adopt black kids.
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:54 am Posts: 21890 Location: Places
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Shack wrote:
Trump chooses Amy Coney Barrett
This is a trap for the Democrats. He wants to bait them into maximum ugliness by them attacking a Catholic mother of 7, and he wants BLM to burn down churches and say white women shouldn't adopt black kids.
Fortunately an infant Hellen Keller could pick up on this "trap". Biden and Dems have & will stick to the impacts she would have popular policies such as Roe & ACA and shove popular "GOP hypocrisy" narrative down everyones throat. There is more than ample material and it will likely prove compelling considering public sentiment is largely on the Democrats side on 3 points.
There is already a video of ACB from 2016 noting why they should not put Justices up in election years etc. This material is devastating to the general credibility of Trump and the Republicans. Trump obviously is a known liar at this point and the only people who vote him are 1) true-red Republicans who dislike him but see him as the lesser of 2 evils, to 2) voters who are too stupid to realize their own stupidity and actually believe the shit that comes out of Trumps mouth. Whether the wall was ever built, or if Mexico paid for it, doesn't matter to these people. They feel insecure when looking at rich, educated liberals and seeing Trump make fun of them makes these voters like him.
For the 10% of the country that are independents and view things objectively, however, all of these lies and obvious GOP hypocrisy tells them that not only did Trump NOT drain the swamp, but he is now its premier resident.
DT needed to recognize that he is playing with fire by pissing off - and motivating as a byproduct - Dems to such an extent so close to the election yet clearly he thought this is the best play in the event that he gets blown out in a months time. Highly risky move.
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Ari Emmanuel wrote:
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Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:14 pm
Jack Sparrow
KJ's Leading Idiot
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:15 pm Posts: 36923
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Mau wrote:
how did I miss this thread.
You didn't miss much. Here's the thread Synopsis. "Mine is better, no mine is better"
You didn't miss much. Here's the thread Synopsis. "Mine is better, no mine is better"
Dick meassurement at its finest, lmao.
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Tongue Pop!
I kneel with Magnus.
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:38 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Excel wrote:
There is already a video of ACB from 2016 noting why they should not put Justices up in election years etc.
This video?
If Barrett believes in her own words and sticks to the argument she laid out in the clip, she should decline the nomination. Otherwise she is just another hypocritical, unprincipled party hack like Lindsey Graham.
Things at stake here: people's health insurance, access to reproductive care, separation of church and state.
Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:36 pm
zwackerm
Hold the door!
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm Posts: 20345 Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Democrats wouldn’t do exactly what the Republicans are doing if they were able. Oh wait, they would.
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:45 pm
Corpse
Don't Dream It, Be It
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:45 pm Posts: 37152 Location: The Graveyard
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Here's the thing though: No one cares. Or rather, not enough people care. Things have gotten so divided, that people are openly admitting self-hypocrisy because there's little risk or consequence in doing so like in year's past. Merely flip-flopping on an issue, or being caught up in a lie, was enough to jeopardize one's electability, their credibility just last decade, but now it's become nearly acceptable to do so.
Lindsey Graham, in particular, took the step this past by openly telling the public that his words are truly meaningless and to use them against him if they want. Literally. His actions are going to set a precedent for others to follow (blatantly lie, admit to people that you lied and that it doesn't matter), especially if he's reelected for proudly telling the public he's a hypocrite.
Amy Coney Barrett's words in that clip don't mean a thing in this environment. When questioned on it, she doesn't have to defend any of it. She'll probably try, of course, but she could respond with anything. She can call herself a proud hypocrite like chairman Graham and say Ginsburg's death and dramatically flipping the balance of power have been long overdue and it means nothing. The public's opinion isn't going to be swayed, and no one's vote is going to change.
“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.” “We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.” “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” “You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.” "Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:50 pm
Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11008 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
New report coming out that Trump has been avoiding paying taxes for years and has reported big losses. Not sure if this matters though, but it kinda reveals how dangerous it is having him in office right now. He seems desperate on not losing this election; his Supreme Court pick is not someone who would closely align with his own personal beliefs but would pander to the religious right heavily as he desperately needs their votes to help him win the election and avoid jail time in the future if tax evasion becomes something he will be in a court battle against.
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Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:46 pm
Corpse
Don't Dream It, Be It
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:45 pm Posts: 37152 Location: The Graveyard
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
It's about time his tax information is being released. Quite ridiculous that it took four years to get to this point though, but at least everything that's been speculated (that he's a crook and not worth what he says he is) is coming forth.
In 2016:
He paid $750 in federal taxes to the IRS. (Also $750 in 2017.) He paid $130,000 in hush payments to Stormy Daniels.
And he paid $0 in federal taxes between 2001-2015. My husband and I paid $11,186 in federal taxes last year.
But none of this really matters to his supporters and won't have any impact in the polls.
“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.” “We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.” “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” “You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.” "Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:24 pm
Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11008 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
Correct, this will change very few voters’ minds. Either they know he is a crook and don’t care or they are brainwashed beyond repair at this point.
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Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:44 pm
Corpse
Don't Dream It, Be It
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:45 pm Posts: 37152 Location: The Graveyard
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
I want to laugh at this, because there truly is a tweet for everything regarding this scum, but it's honestly just sad.
But beyond all of this, there's some shady and likely tax fraud that he and Ivanka will be facing once he's out of office. Of course, he (they) should be held accountable while IN office, but alas...
“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.” “We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.” “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” “You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.” "Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:34 pm
zwackerm
Hold the door!
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm Posts: 20345 Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
How is it even possible for someone to avoid taxes to that level?
All that's needed is a clever accountant to instruct how and where to put money so as hardly any taxes need to be paid. The Laundromat is a decent movie on the subject.
Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:06 am
Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11008 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
Re: Democratic Primary: Biden/Harris 2020
zwackerm wrote:
How is it even possible for someone to avoid taxes to that level?
People do it a lot as long as you have a good accountant. Many CEOs famously only take one dollar as their salary to avoid paying an income tax making their money on other aspects of the company such as bonuses. It is all in how you declare your money. Problem is, if you are subjected to a serious audit, you can be found out. This is how they got Al Capone. This is how they got Jordan Belfort. This is how they could get Donald Trump. If you can read between the lines, it is pretty obvious he is guilty and desperately trying to win this next election to avoid jail time.
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