Darth Indiana Bond wrote:
You are a good kid Zwack
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| The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fascism http://worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=81988 |
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| Author: | Groucho [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Nazis: "We want to kill Jews and blacks" Antifas: "We will stop you." Idiots: "Oh my god, they're both the same." |
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| Author: | Jedi Master Carr [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Personally, I wish we could ban Nazis like Germany has. We could easily declare them a terrorist group since they spout terrorist ideas. And a few of there members have caused terrorism (Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh come to mind). |
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| Author: | Caius [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Groucho wrote: Nazis: "We want to kill Jews and blacks" Antifas: "We will stop you." Idiots: "Oh my god, they're both the same." Since you made the comparison, I will note that Antifa will employ violence to stop people. They shut down the Rose Parade in Portland. |
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| Author: | Caius [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Jedi Master Carr wrote: Personally, I wish we could ban Nazis like Germany has. We could easily declare them a terrorist group since they spout terrorist ideas. And a few of there members have caused terrorism (Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh come to mind). Ok, Senator McCarthy. |
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| Author: | stuffp [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Caius wrote: Groucho wrote: Nazis: "We want to kill Jews and blacks" Antifas: "We will stop you." Idiots: "Oh my god, they're both the same." Since you made the comparison, I will note that Antifa will employ violence to stop people. They shut down the Rose Parade in Portland. Well, in some way, isn't Antifa just acting out of self-defense? |
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| Author: | Groucho [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
stuffp wrote: Caius wrote: Groucho wrote: Nazis: "We want to kill Jews and blacks" Antifas: "We will stop you." Idiots: "Oh my god, they're both the same." Since you made the comparison, I will note that Antifa will employ violence to stop people. They shut down the Rose Parade in Portland. Well, in some way, isn't Antifa just acting out of self-defense? That's kind of my point. If there were no fascists, there would be no need for anti-fascists. Darth Vader: "Well, yes, the Empire may be evil, but look at all the violence caused by the Rebel Alliance!" |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
If they were attacked by the Neo Nazis, it would be self defense. If they were not it would not be. |
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| Author: | Darth Indiana Bond [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
So many nazi apologists |
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| Author: | Caius [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Darth Indiana Bond wrote: So many nazi apologists Oh shut the fuck up. I was the first person to call out Trump in this thread for not speaking out against them this weekend. |
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| Author: | Caius [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Jake Tapper on Antifa attacking journalists at the Neo-Nazi rally https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/897977496930570240 |
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| Author: | Darth Indiana Bond [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Caius wrote: Darth Indiana Bond wrote: So many nazi apologists Oh shut the fuck up. I was the first person to call out Trump in this thread for not speaking out against them this weekend. Oh no, nothing aimed at you. |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Darth Indiana Bond wrote: Caius wrote: Darth Indiana Bond wrote: So many nazi apologists Oh shut the fuck up. I was the first person to call out Trump in this thread for not speaking out against them this weekend. Oh no, nothing aimed at you. Not aimed at me either I hope? |
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| Author: | Darth Indiana Bond [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
You are a good kid Zwack |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Darth Indiana Bond wrote: You are a good kid Zwack
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| Author: | Malcolm [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
The orange POS has now come out in defense of statues/monuments to the Confederacy spouting the usual "heritage," "history," and "who's next? Washington? Jefferson?" line of garbage. He apparently suffers the same misconception that the people who created the country and those who actively tried to dismantle it in the name of continuing to own other humans are on the same footing. So, is supporting/exalting treasonous figures from a country's past--people who tried to destroy the country as we know it, including the precious Constitution the GOP claims to love so much--another noble, defendable act? |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Malcolm wrote: The orange POS has now come out in defense of statues/monuments to the Confederacy spouting the usual "heritage," "history," and "who's next? Washington? Jefferson?" line of garbage. He apparently suffers the same misconception that the people who created the country and those who actively tried to dismantle it in the name of continuing to own other humans are on the same footing. So, is supporting/exalting treasonous figures from a country's past--people who tried to destroy the country as we know it, including the precious Constitution the GOP claims to love so much--another noble, defendable act? In the South's view, the North was trying to ruin the country. Neither the north were the south are these cartoon villains or heroes they're made out to be. Do you really think the south truly understood how wrong slavery was if they were willing to go to war over it? You may say it's due purely to money, but I highly doubt that everyone in the south was Evil. A lot were probably confused. And Robert E. Lee was morally opposed to Slavery, but wanted to wait for God to "deliver them" from slavery. The point they are making is that just about anything in history can be considered offensive if you think about it. And statues help us to learn and not repeat our history. |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Not that I actually give two shits about statues of confederate generals. But it seems like a lot of hullabaloo about nothing |
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| Author: | Malcolm [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
What a complete lost cause. To even sit there and equivocate "well, to the South the North was trying to ruin the country" speaks volumes about you as a person. So, according to you, in 40's Germany it was just a difference of opinion? Jews and others not wanting to be killed, and Nazis wanting to kill them--just different point of views, not a "wrong" and "right" or "good" and "bad" but a simple disagreement. RE: your Robert E. Lee statement: saying one is morally opposed to something while continuing to do it because they're waiting for god to weigh in is useless, counts for nothing, and is revolting intellectual dishonesty. "Yes, I am morally opposed to pedophilia and the decapitation of the elderly, but I think I'll wait for God's input--in an official capacity--before changing my ways at all." Some things are simple and I'll give you two right here: -Nazis are bad, those who oppose them aren't -owning people is bad, those who oppose that aren't And guess what, white boy, you don't give a shit about monuments to the confederacy but there are lots--perhaps all?!--people of color who do take those kinds of things personally. Loving monuments on government grounds commemorating the valiant souls who tried to destroy America in the name of owning black people. How beautiful... I know it's impossible for you to understand, but if there were monuments to a movement that fought a war in the name of owning white people because it was their god-given right then I fucking guarantee you there'd be lots of white people up in arms. Making excuses for the inexcusable seems to be your thing, though, so I assume you will continue. How about female circumcision? Genocide? Tell me about how those things aren't really that bad if we look at it from other people's perspective. |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Malcolm wrote: Some things are simple and I'll give you two right here: -Nazis are bad, those who oppose them aren't -owning people is bad, those who oppose that aren't I agree. The causes were bad, that does not mean that people on the wrong side were all evil and believed in them. There were Nazis who didn't even know what Hitler was doing to the Jews. A high percentage (likely 99%+) of the south is opposed to slavery today. They feel bad. Actually no that first statement is wrong. You can oppose nazism and slavery and still support other evil things. The majority of people who do bad things do them without understanding how or why they're wrong. People who realize things are wrong stop doing them. And you're wrong about the "slippery slope argument is absurd". There are indeed people who wish to remove any historical thing that could even be slightly be considered offensive. That's the main thing those who oppose the removal of the statues are worried about. And confederate statues are not necessarily glorifying slavery and the confederate cause. They just as well serve as reminders to the horrors of slavery and war. It is part of our history and heritage, like it or not, and removing the statues won't make it have never happened. And when I said I didn't care I meant it didn't bother me personally if they take them down, but there are valid arguments for leaving them up. Not every black person is so offended by them. A lot of them don't care either. |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
To even suggest that leaving up confederate statues is akin to supporting slavery is ridiculous. |
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| Author: | Malcolm [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
I believe we're done here. |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Malcolm wrote: I believe we're done here. I hope so. I'd also like to say you can attempt to understand the other side while still condemning them fully. That's what I do. I do not support ideas that I believe are evil, but I do like to understand their line of thinking, however repulsive it may be to me. |
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| Author: | Jedi Master Carr [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
so if we have monuments of Lee and Jackson. Why don't we have monuments to Benedict Arnold. If anything without Arnold there probably wouldn't be a U.S., while Lee and Jackson tried to destroy our nation. They are all traitors, the only reason why they weren't hanged was because Lincoln pushed against it. |
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| Author: | Darth Indiana Bond [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
Thing is, Trump isn't trying to take a moral grey viewpoint. This is the same guy who shouted how much he wanted to punch the protesters during his rallies. The same guy who advocated police to be rough with unconvicted crimals after they were handcuffed when escorting them into their police cars. These are not exaggerations; these are things he actually said. Now all of the sudden he wants us to be understanding of the other side. Thing is, he is all about the other side, he does not care about both sides. He is a champion for racists on the right. He knows that. That's how he got elected in the primaries. Trump is very loyal to his base. During these past few days he has used his voice to briefly denounce the white supremacists, sure, but he was spent far more energy blasting the far left and defending the monuments, defending the side of the white nationalists. You can keep defending Trump. But why? |
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| Author: | Jedi Master Carr [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas |
I think there are two things going wrong. Trump believes he is never wrong, and he will double down if people challenge him on that. Second is Steve Bannon and Steve Miller, those two guys are white nationalists who have pushed him in that direction. I think we will see his approval numbers go down further, and it will make things more difficult for him to accomplish anything before the midterms, except keep the government running. |
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