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 Government shutdown 
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A very honest-hearted fellow
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Did someone actually think this would work based on the way it was sold? More coverage, lower price, and no denials for pre-existing conditions. Obama may have "lied" about "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan," but only fucking idiots believed that. Those on the right knew it would cost a lot more and become unaccountable and those on the left saw it as a step towards single-payer. Those that actually thought this would work as described, should not be allowed to vote.

I thought the "rule of law" was one of the foundations of English jurisprudence since the Magna Carta. Now we can have a law (IT IS THE LAW! Remember that from the shutdown?) that the President declines to enforce and with regulations, that were created by the Executive Branch, that he will decline to enforce. What a predictable legal environment we now have.


Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:13 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
The points against Obamacare are not simply its some socialist policy.

The points against Obamacare are valid points as the policy currently fails in doing anything well.


Obama lied about Obamacare and was so concerned about getting it through he let through a failed flawed policy.

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Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:59 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Anyone on the left that thinks it was a step towards single payer is a fucking moron.

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Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:44 am
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Post Re: Government shutdown
You're a fucking moron.

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Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:37 am
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Great comeback. Tell me more about how a bill backed by and that props up private insurance companies that have seen profits and stock value soar thanks to it is meant to erode for-profit health insurance.

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Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:37 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
No point arguing

Obama supporters = Everyone who is against Obama is racist and he is a great President for making nice speeches.

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Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:18 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Yep. That perfectly describes half of America!

You nailed it.

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shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element

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Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:15 am
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Post Re: Government shutdown
I am an Obama supporter, and I don't think that way. I admit I know people who do. I would say that is probably more like half of Obama's supporters maybe less.

It does look like we might have some good news, and we will avoid another govt shutdown
http://news.yahoo.com/u-congress-budget ... iness.html

I am not a big fan of the changes in the retirement plan, but at least most of the Sequester will be gone. It will help agencies like mine that would have seen brutal furloughs and less seasonal employees in 2014 with the Sequester.


Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:28 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
I am an Obama supporter, and I don't think that way. I admit I know people who do. I would say that is probably more like half of Obama's supporters maybe less.

It does look like we might have some good news, and we will avoid another govt shutdown
http://news.yahoo.com/u-congress-budget ... iness.html

I am not a big fan of the changes in the retirement plan, but at least most of the Sequester will be gone. It will help agencies like mine that would have seen brutal furloughs and less seasonal employees in 2014 with the Sequester.

Is it not possible to cut anyone or anything from the agency you work for? Question: If your agency went away, would we die or would most people even notice? U.S. Americans know less and less about the history of this country, let alone South Africa and the Iraq, so why should your budget not be cut based on that fact?

Although I do not not work for the DoD, the company I work for does derive a significant amount of revenue from it, and I recognize there is massive bloat and waste all over the damn place and I welcome the sequester, even though the DoD owns a larger share of the sequester than any other Department.


Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:52 am
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Post Re: Government shutdown
If we got rid of the Park Service, we would lose a lot of natural and historical treasures. The states can't manage them, hell states like California have been closing the state parks how could they afford to manage parks like Death Valley and Yosemite. Then if they were sold to the highest bidder some would be strip-mined, others would become glorified amusement parks, and sure a few will remain what they are but will have huge fees to get in. We protect the parks for the good of the people, so people today and future generations can see these places. They help tell people about the past, provide comfort, and wonder. So, the idea of getting rid of it is absurd, especially since it makes up less than 1% of the budget. As for cutting staff, the staffing levels are very low right now and are just adequate enough to protect and help interpret the parks. Sure there are always a few positions that can be cut but we need the vast majority of positions and could always use more interpreters at many parks. Now if you want to talk about ways to improve the Park Service that is fine, but cutting it isn't really and option.

The problem is at other government agencies mostly medicare, medicaid, social security, and defense. Those are the areas that need reform where we could save money to help pay for the more important things like infrastructure, food safety, education, public safety, and the public good.


Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:29 am
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Post Re: Government shutdown
A deal has been reached
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/politics/ ... ?hpt=hp_t2

It isn't perfect, as I said not too happy about the retirement changes, but it is better than the layoffs, furloughs, and less seasonal employees. I think the deal is pass mainly because Cantor and Boener are backing it, and I think Pelosi will back it too. Pelosi will get enough democrats to pass it, even if it does get a majority of republicans. It shouldn't have any problems in the Senate and probably get 70 votes.


Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:22 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
If we got rid of the Park Service, we would lose a lot of natural and historical treasures. The states can't manage them, hell states like California have been closing the state parks how could they afford to manage parks like Death Valley and Yosemite. Then if they were sold to the highest bidder some would be strip-mined, others would become glorified amusement parks, and sure a few will remain what they are but will have huge fees to get in. We protect the parks for the good of the people, so people today and future generations can see these places. They help tell people about the past, provide comfort, and wonder. So, the idea of getting rid of it is absurd, especially since it makes up less than 1% of the budget. As for cutting staff, the staffing levels are very low right now and are just adequate enough to protect and help interpret the parks. Sure there are always a few positions that can be cut but we need the vast majority of positions and could always use more interpreters at many parks. Now if you want to talk about ways to improve the Park Service that is fine, but cutting it isn't really and option.

The problem is at other government agencies mostly medicare, medicaid, social security, and defense. Those are the areas that need reform where we could save money to help pay for the more important things like infrastructure, food safety, education, public safety, and the public good.

Food safety? Our food is plenty safe. Notice all the fat asses around? And no, I do not want the amount of fat in food to be regulated as a safety measure. Maybe if we instituted "do not resuscitate" requirements on morbidly obese people without assets to pay for medical care, we could cull the heard a bit and save a bit of money so we could hire more jack booted park rangers.

We waste plenty of money on education, even more than what we waste in the park service, and I do not see results. As for public safety, we have plenty of nanny do-gooders cranking at plenty of regulations every day to ensure that we are not required to make a decision without confronting a billion agencies.

As for cutting medicare and medicaid and social security, I agree there is a ton to cut, but I have a feeling you will still be against such cuts if one were to propose them--even if we left the precious park service alone.


Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:04 am
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Yes. Because we "waste" enough money on education, we should definitely cut it. Because that would help.

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shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element

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Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:43 am
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Caius wrote:
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
If we got rid of the Park Service, we would lose a lot of natural and historical treasures. The states can't manage them, hell states like California have been closing the state parks how could they afford to manage parks like Death Valley and Yosemite. Then if they were sold to the highest bidder some would be strip-mined, others would become glorified amusement parks, and sure a few will remain what they are but will have huge fees to get in. We protect the parks for the good of the people, so people today and future generations can see these places. They help tell people about the past, provide comfort, and wonder. So, the idea of getting rid of it is absurd, especially since it makes up less than 1% of the budget. As for cutting staff, the staffing levels are very low right now and are just adequate enough to protect and help interpret the parks. Sure there are always a few positions that can be cut but we need the vast majority of positions and could always use more interpreters at many parks. Now if you want to talk about ways to improve the Park Service that is fine, but cutting it isn't really and option.

The problem is at other government agencies mostly medicare, medicaid, social security, and defense. Those are the areas that need reform where we could save money to help pay for the more important things like infrastructure, food safety, education, public safety, and the public good.

Food safety? Our food is plenty safe. Notice all the fat asses around? And no, I do not want the amount of fat in food to be regulated as a safety measure. Maybe if we instituted "do not resuscitate" requirements on morbidly obese people without assets to pay for medical care, we could cull the heard a bit and save a bit of money so we could hire more jack booted park rangers.

We waste plenty of money on education, even more than what we waste in the park service, and I do not see results. As for public safety, we have plenty of nanny do-gooders cranking at plenty of regulations every day to ensure that we are not required to make a decision without confronting a billion agencies.

As for cutting medicare and medicaid and social security, I agree there is a ton to cut, but I have a feeling you will still be against such cuts if one were to propose them--even if we left the precious park service alone.


When I talk about food safety, I was referring to things that could kill people like dangerous pesticides. The FDA is one great creations of our government, before it food safety was horrible. Read the Jungle that is pretty much how bad food quality was in this country. As for Public Safety, we need things like the FBI, and other agencies to protect us. They are there to go after Organized crime, terrorists, and other major crimes. We need those agencies, and the sequester would have crippled our justice system, but cutting back on FBI agents and judges. We can't rely on local police to fight terrorists, the Colombian drug cartels, or the Russian Mob. And really you don't know me, I support reforms to medicare, Social security and medicaid. For Social Security, I think the only that has to be done is raise the retirement age. For Medicaid, I think we should have an income adjustment placed on it. People making 100k a year shouldn't be allowed to get Medicaid. I am sure there are other reforms, and I would support them.


Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:27 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Chippy wrote:
Yes. Because we "waste" enough money on education, we should definitely cut it. Because that would help.

So we should waste more? What is the optimal amount to waste for no positive return? We keep doubling down on stupid and it isn't working.


Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:13 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
So what would you suggest?

(yes, we should "waste" more money on education)

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shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element

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Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:20 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Our education system needs a lot of reform. We should be looking at how Europe is doing it and follow their lead.


Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:51 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Chippy wrote:
So what would you suggest?

(yes, we should "waste" more money on education)


I suggest getting rid of the the Department of Education and increase localization of education, like it has been for the vast majority of our nation's existence. Keep the money at the state and county/city level. Why waste billions by giving money to the feds who in turn give it back to local school districts, from whence the money originated? The current system makes no sense whatsoever.

Break the teacher's unions. Local schools fire poor performing teachers. Have thousands of "laboratories of democracy" where schools try different things to educate and good ideas get picked up and bad ideas discarded.

Anything is better than "spend more money."


Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:27 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
I am just glad that they finally decided compromise. I am sick of that being a dirty word when our country was built on compromise.


Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
I am just glad that they finally decided compromise. I am sick of that being a dirty word when our country was built on compromise.

"I want a bridge." " I don't." "Well let's build half a bridge."


Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:28 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Caius wrote:
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
I am just glad that they finally decided compromise. I am sick of that being a dirty word when our country was built on compromise.

"I want a bridge." " I don't." "Well let's build half a bridge."

that isn't the same thing, our country wouldn't exist if Hamilton and Madison had stuck to their own ideas. They both had to compromise, when it comes to democracy you have to have compromise other wise it doesn't work. If you want firm one-sided decision then you have to go for an autocratic form of government.


Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:13 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
Caius wrote:
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
I am just glad that they finally decided compromise. I am sick of that being a dirty word when our country was built on compromise.

"I want a bridge." " I don't." "Well let's build half a bridge."

that isn't the same thing, our country wouldn't exist if Hamilton and Madison had stuck to their own ideas. They both had to compromise, when it comes to democracy you have to have compromise other wise it doesn't work. If you want firm one-sided decision then you have to go for an autocratic form of government.

The real conclusion is we get the bridge and the others guy's project, the stadium. Stop being so pedantic.


Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:45 am
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Caius wrote:
Chippy wrote:
So what would you suggest?

(yes, we should "waste" more money on education)


I suggest getting rid of the the Department of Education and increase localization of education, like it has been for the vast majority of our nation's existence. Keep the money at the state and county/city level. Why waste billions by giving money to the feds who in turn give it back to local school districts, from whence the money originated? The current system makes no sense whatsoever.

Break the teacher's unions. Local schools fire poor performing teachers. Have thousands of "laboratories of democracy" where schools try different things to educate and good ideas get picked up and bad ideas discarded.

Anything is better than "spend more money."


Yeah, great idea when half the people saying the same want to do so to teach kids that Jesus rode on a dinosaur. And I'm sure the best education systems in the world DON'T have teachers' unions...wait, they do. America's education system is really no better or worse than it is in other large late-capitalist societies, with the exception of Japan really. Britain, France and Germany are in the same boat as us.

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Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Germany, France, and Britain, though are beating us in test scores, especially in math and science. They still do things different than us. Not saying, though that would work for the U.S.


Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:17 pm
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Post Re: Government shutdown
Tyler wrote:

Yeah, great idea when half the people saying the same want to do so to teach kids that Jesus rode on a dinosaur. And I'm sure the best education systems in the world DON'T have teachers' unions...wait, they do. America's education system is really no better or worse than it is in other large late-capitalist societies, with the exception of Japan really. Britain, France and Germany are in the same boat as us.

Why do you care if people want to teach their children a bunch of shit? Won't it just further show how much better you are than them? Big fucking deal that someone in rural Alabama or Louisiana thinks the earth is 6,000 old. That doesn't have any thing to do with the basic rules of reading, writing, and mathematics.

Apparently these same people already believe in Jesus riding dinosaurs, under our current system, so a lot of good it did in removing this belief from them. But make sure to run for the hills because we all know they are about to go a-convertin' and a burnin' witches.

The American university system is not heavily unionized and world-wide our universities are considered top-notch (though too many go and there is too much grade inflation). Something you cannot say about our primary school system.


Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:15 pm
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