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 House passes health care bill on close vote 
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Post House passes health care bill on close vote
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul
Quote:
WASHINGTON – In a victory for President Barack Obama, the Democratic-controlled House narrowly passed landmark health care legislation Saturday night to expand coverage to tens of millions who lack it and place tough new restrictions on the insurance industry. Republican opposition was nearly unanimous.

The 220-215 vote cleared the way for the Senate to begin a long-delayed debate on the issue that has come to overshadow all others in Congress.


A triumphant Speaker Nancy Pelosi likened the legislation to the passage of Social Security in 1935 and Medicare 30 years later — and Obama issued a statement saying, "I look forward to signing it into law by the end of the year."

"It provides coverage for 96 percent of Americans. It offers everyone, regardless of health or income, the peace of mind that comes from knowing they will have access to affordable health care when they need it," said Rep. John Dingell, the 83-year-old Michigan lawmaker who has introduced national health insurance in every Congress since succeeding his father in 1955.

In the run-up to a final vote, conservatives from the two political parties joined forces to impose tough new restrictions on abortion coverage in insurance policies to be sold to many individuals and small groups. They prevailed on a roll call of 240-194.

Ironically, that only solidified support for the legislation, clearing the way for conservative Democrats to vote for it.

The legislation would require most Americans to carry insurance and provide federal subsidies to those who otherwise could not afford it. Large companies would have to offer coverage to their employees. Both consumers and companies would be slapped with penalties if they defied the government's mandates.

Insurance industry practices such as denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions would be banned, and insurers would no longer be able to charge higher premiums on the basis of gender or medical history. In a further slap, the industry would lose its exemption from federal antitrust restrictions on price fixing and market allocation.

At its core, the measure would create a federally regulated marketplace where consumers could shop for coverage. In the bill's most controversial provision, the government would sell insurance, although the Congressional Budget Office forecasts that premiums for it would be more expensive than for policies sold by private firms.

A cheer went up from the Democratic side of the House when the bill gained 218 votes, a majority. Moments later, Democrats counted down the final seconds of the voting period in unison, and let loose an even louder roar when Pelosi grabbed the gavel and declared, "the bill is passed."

The bill drew the votes of 219 Democrats and Rep. Joseph Cao, a first-term Republican who holds an overwhelmingly Democratic seat in New Orleans. Opposed were 176 Republicans and 39 Democrats.

From the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada issued a statement saying, "We realize the strong will for reform that exists, and we are energized that we stand closer than ever to reforming our broken health insurance system."

In his written statement, Obama praised the House's action and said, "now the United State Senate must follow suit and pass its version of the legislation. I am absolutely confident it will."

Nearly unanimous in their opposition, minority Republicans cataloged their objections across hours of debate on the 1,990-page, $1.2 trillion legislation.

United in opposition, minority Republicans cataloged their objections across hours of debate on the 1,990-page, $1.2 trillion legislation.

"We are going to have a complete government takeover of our health care system faster than you can say, `this is making me sick,'" jabbed Rep. Candice Miller, R-Mich., adding that Democrats were intent on passing "a jobs-killing, tax-hiking, deficit-exploding" bill.

But with little doubt about the outcome, the rhetoric lacked the fire of last summer's town hall meetings, when some critics accused Democrats of plotting "death panels" to hasten the demise of senior citizens.

The bill is projected to expand coverage to 36 million uninsured, resulting in 96 percent of the nation's eligible population having insurance.

To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade. It also imposes a tax surcharge of 5.4 percent on income over $500,000 in the case of individuals and $1 million for families.

The bill was estimated to reduce federal deficits by about $104 billion over a decade, although it lacked two of the key cost-cutting provisions under consideration in the Senate, and its longer-term impact on government red ink was far from clear.

Democrats lined up a range of outside groups behind their legislation, none more important than the AARP, whose support promises political cover against the cuts to Medicare in next year's congressional elections.

The nation's drug companies generally support health care overhaul. And while the powerful insurance industry opposed the legislation, it did so quietly, and the result was that Republicans could not count on the type of advertising campaign that might have peeled away skittish Democrats in swing districts.

Over all, the bill envisioned the most sweeping set of changes to the health care system in more than a generation, and Democrats said it marked the culmination of a campaign that Harry Truman began when he sat in the White House 60 years ago.

Debate on the House floor had already begun when Obama strode into a closed-door meeting of the Democratic rank and file across the street from the Capitol to make a final personal appeal to them to pass his top domestic priority.

Later, in an appearance at the White House, he said he had told lawmakers, "to rise to this moment. Answer the call of history, and vote yes for health insurance reform for America."

It appeared that a compromise brokered Friday night on the volatile issue of abortion had finally secured the votes needed to pass the legislation.

As drafted, the measure denied the use of federal subsidies to purchase abortion coverage in policies sold by private insurers in the new insurance exchange, except in cases of incest, rape or when the life of the mother was in danger.

But abortion foes won far stronger restrictions that would rule out abortion coverage except in those three categories in any government-sold plan. It would also ban abortion coverage in any private plan purchased by consumers receiving federal subsidies.

Disappointed Democratic abortion rights supporters grumbled about the turn of events, but pulled back quickly from any thought of opposing the health care bill in protest.

One, Rep. Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., detailed numerous other benefits for women in the bill, including free medical preventive services and better prescription drug coverage under Medicare. "Women need health care reform," she concluded in remarks on the House floor.

A Republican alternative was rejected on a near party line vote of 258-176.

It relied heavily on loosening regulations on private insurers to reduce costs for those who currently have insurance, in some cases by as much as 10 percent. But congressional budget analysts said the plan would make no dent in the ranks of the uninsured, an assessment that highlighted the difference in priorities between the two political parties.


:cheer:

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Rev wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul
Quote:
WASHINGTON – In a victory for President Barack Obama, the Democratic-controlled House narrowly passed landmark health care legislation Saturday night to expand coverage to tens of millions who lack it and place tough new restrictions on the insurance industry. Republican opposition was nearly unanimous.

The 220-215 vote cleared the way for the Senate to begin a long-delayed debate on the issue that has come to overshadow all others in Congress.


A triumphant Speaker Nancy Pelosi likened the legislation to the passage of Social Security in 1935 and Medicare 30 years later — and Obama issued a statement saying, "I look forward to signing it into law by the end of the year."

"It provides coverage for 96 percent of Americans. It offers everyone, regardless of health or income, the peace of mind that comes from knowing they will have access to affordable health care when they need it," said Rep. John Dingell, the 83-year-old Michigan lawmaker who has introduced national health insurance in every Congress since succeeding his father in 1955.

In the run-up to a final vote, conservatives from the two political parties joined forces to impose tough new restrictions on abortion coverage in insurance policies to be sold to many individuals and small groups. They prevailed on a roll call of 240-194.

Ironically, that only solidified support for the legislation, clearing the way for conservative Democrats to vote for it.

The legislation would require most Americans to carry insurance and provide federal subsidies to those who otherwise could not afford it. Large companies would have to offer coverage to their employees. Both consumers and companies would be slapped with penalties if they defied the government's mandates.

Insurance industry practices such as denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions would be banned, and insurers would no longer be able to charge higher premiums on the basis of gender or medical history. In a further slap, the industry would lose its exemption from federal antitrust restrictions on price fixing and market allocation.

At its core, the measure would create a federally regulated marketplace where consumers could shop for coverage. In the bill's most controversial provision, the government would sell insurance, although the Congressional Budget Office forecasts that premiums for it would be more expensive than for policies sold by private firms.

A cheer went up from the Democratic side of the House when the bill gained 218 votes, a majority. Moments later, Democrats counted down the final seconds of the voting period in unison, and let loose an even louder roar when Pelosi grabbed the gavel and declared, "the bill is passed."

The bill drew the votes of 219 Democrats and Rep. Joseph Cao, a first-term Republican who holds an overwhelmingly Democratic seat in New Orleans. Opposed were 176 Republicans and 39 Democrats.

From the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada issued a statement saying, "We realize the strong will for reform that exists, and we are energized that we stand closer than ever to reforming our broken health insurance system."

In his written statement, Obama praised the House's action and said, "now the United State Senate must follow suit and pass its version of the legislation. I am absolutely confident it will."

Nearly unanimous in their opposition, minority Republicans cataloged their objections across hours of debate on the 1,990-page, $1.2 trillion legislation.

United in opposition, minority Republicans cataloged their objections across hours of debate on the 1,990-page, $1.2 trillion legislation.

"We are going to have a complete government takeover of our health care system faster than you can say, `this is making me sick,'" jabbed Rep. Candice Miller, R-Mich., adding that Democrats were intent on passing "a jobs-killing, tax-hiking, deficit-exploding" bill.

But with little doubt about the outcome, the rhetoric lacked the fire of last summer's town hall meetings, when some critics accused Democrats of plotting "death panels" to hasten the demise of senior citizens.

The bill is projected to expand coverage to 36 million uninsured, resulting in 96 percent of the nation's eligible population having insurance.

To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade. It also imposes a tax surcharge of 5.4 percent on income over $500,000 in the case of individuals and $1 million for families.

The bill was estimated to reduce federal deficits by about $104 billion over a decade, although it lacked two of the key cost-cutting provisions under consideration in the Senate, and its longer-term impact on government red ink was far from clear.

Democrats lined up a range of outside groups behind their legislation, none more important than the AARP, whose support promises political cover against the cuts to Medicare in next year's congressional elections.

The nation's drug companies generally support health care overhaul. And while the powerful insurance industry opposed the legislation, it did so quietly, and the result was that Republicans could not count on the type of advertising campaign that might have peeled away skittish Democrats in swing districts.

Over all, the bill envisioned the most sweeping set of changes to the health care system in more than a generation, and Democrats said it marked the culmination of a campaign that Harry Truman began when he sat in the White House 60 years ago.

Debate on the House floor had already begun when Obama strode into a closed-door meeting of the Democratic rank and file across the street from the Capitol to make a final personal appeal to them to pass his top domestic priority.

Later, in an appearance at the White House, he said he had told lawmakers, "to rise to this moment. Answer the call of history, and vote yes for health insurance reform for America."

It appeared that a compromise brokered Friday night on the volatile issue of abortion had finally secured the votes needed to pass the legislation.

As drafted, the measure denied the use of federal subsidies to purchase abortion coverage in policies sold by private insurers in the new insurance exchange, except in cases of incest, rape or when the life of the mother was in danger.

But abortion foes won far stronger restrictions that would rule out abortion coverage except in those three categories in any government-sold plan. It would also ban abortion coverage in any private plan purchased by consumers receiving federal subsidies.

Disappointed Democratic abortion rights supporters grumbled about the turn of events, but pulled back quickly from any thought of opposing the health care bill in protest.

One, Rep. Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., detailed numerous other benefits for women in the bill, including free medical preventive services and better prescription drug coverage under Medicare. "Women need health care reform," she concluded in remarks on the House floor.

A Republican alternative was rejected on a near party line vote of 258-176.

It relied heavily on loosening regulations on private insurers to reduce costs for those who currently have insurance, in some cases by as much as 10 percent. But congressional budget analysts said the plan would make no dent in the ranks of the uninsured, an assessment that highlighted the difference in priorities between the two political parties.


:cheer:


http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/show ... p?t=701155

Say Goodbye to the freedom in this country you Obama loving idiots.. Socialism at it's finest and you think that's Ok??? I mean, I know you hate Bush and all, but come on.. You really think this Healthcare Bill is good???

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Please define socialism. That's gonna be my response to anyone who utters the word from now on.

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Mr. Reynolds wrote:
Please define socialism. That's gonna be my response to anyone who utters the word from now on.

Only because you can't really think of how this bill will be paid for ;)

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
MR. GREEN wrote:
Say Goodbye to the freedom in this country you Obama loving idiots.. Socialism at it's finest and you think that's Ok??? I mean, I know you hate Bush and all, but come on.. You really think this Healthcare Bill is good???


What's wrong with it?

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Krem wrote:
Mr. Reynolds wrote:
Please define socialism. That's gonna be my response to anyone who utters the word from now on.

Only because you can't really think of how this bill will be paid for ;)



Don't know and don't care really. Did anyone explain how the two ongoing wars were going to be paid for? If we can overspend for bad things, we surely can overspend for necessary things.

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Surely, two wrongs always make a right!

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Mr. Reynolds wrote:
Krem wrote:
Mr. Reynolds wrote:
Please define socialism. That's gonna be my response to anyone who utters the word from now on.

Only because you can't really think of how this bill will be paid for ;)



Don't know and don't care really. Did anyone explain how the two ongoing wars were going to be paid for? If we can overspend for bad things, we surely can overspend for necessary things.


wow just fantastic logic right there


Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:35 pm
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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Going to be a long, long mess to get it officially set up. There needs to be a great business leader heading up the health care change with an emphasis on simplification and ease-to-use. Not even sure how it would work.


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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
MR. GREEN wrote:
Say Goodbye to the freedom in this country you Obama loving idiots.. Socialism at it's finest and you think that's Ok??? I mean, I know you hate Bush and all, but come on.. You really think this Healthcare Bill is good???


It's impossible! People who think differently than me? It can't be!!!

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Rev wrote:
To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade.


This is the best part of the bill. Medicare is a joke

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Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:14 am
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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Shack wrote:
Rev wrote:
To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade.


This is the best part of the bill. Medicare is a joke

And this new government entitlement program will surely be run much better :-D

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Krem wrote:
Shack wrote:
Rev wrote:
To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade.


This is the best part of the bill. Medicare is a joke

And this new government entitlement program will surely be run much better :-D


Would you stop being negative if I told you the Phillies were running this new program?

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Chip, that was one of the funniest things you've ever said on this fourm.

Good job!

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Krem wrote:
Shack wrote:
Rev wrote:
To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade.


This is the best part of the bill. Medicare is a joke

And this new government entitlement program will surely be run much better :-D


Almost everyone on medicare likes it, and the overhead costs are cheaper than with private insurance. You can't look at medicare by itself, you have to compare it to something.

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Groucho wrote:
Krem wrote:
Shack wrote:
Rev wrote:
To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade.


This is the best part of the bill. Medicare is a joke

And this new government entitlement program will surely be run much better :-D


Almost everyone on medicare likes it, and the overhead costs are cheaper than with private insurance. You can't look at medicare by itself, you have to compare it to something.

The overhead argument is silly - Medicare patients are over 65 and therefore use a lot more health care. Which means relatively more of the dollars from the premiums go to medical care rather than administrative costs if you compare it to a health insurance plan that covers all ages.

And breaking news: people getting free stuff like it.

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Krem wrote:
Groucho wrote:
Krem wrote:
Shack wrote:
Rev wrote:
To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade.


This is the best part of the bill. Medicare is a joke

And this new government entitlement program will surely be run much better :-D


Almost everyone on medicare likes it, and the overhead costs are cheaper than with private insurance. You can't look at medicare by itself, you have to compare it to something.

The overhead argument is silly - Medicare patients are over 65 and therefore use a lot more health care. Which means relatively more of the dollars from the premiums go to medical care rather than administrative costs if you compare it to a health insurance plan that covers all ages.

And breaking news: people getting free stuff like it.


Ok, so basically despite the fact that there are few complaints about it, despite the fact that the overhead for it is less than private insurance, you still don't like it. Do you have any reason or argument against it then other than a basic standard "I don't like socialism" chant? Or is there something I'm missing?

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Groucho wrote:
Ok, so basically despite the fact that there are few complaints about it, despite the fact that the overhead for it is less than private insurance, you still don't like it. Do you have any reason or argument against it then other than a basic standard "I don't like socialism" chant? Or is there something I'm missing?

1. You completely ignored my point about overhead, so let me repeat it: it is only natural that Medicare's overhead are lower than private insurance companies, since Medicare has much higher health care costs per insured individual than a company that covers all ages. That does not in any way shape or form imply that Medicare is more efficient.

2. What does it mean that there are "few complaints about" Medicare? It is an entitlement program, and as such it is bound to be liked by its beneficiaries. If you limit the pool of people who can complain about it to them, well of course there will be few complaints. Expand that pool to ALL taxpayers, however, and I am sure you will find an entirely different picture.

3. The argument wasn't about socialism, it was about the government's ability to run Medicare. I simply found it amusing that Shack believes that Medicare is a joke, yet thinks that the new health care entitlement program will be run better. Take your straw men somewhere else, please.

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
The problem with Medicare isnt the overheads or the efficiency of it. Its that hospitals, being in the profit sector, have the incentive to charge ridiculous amounts for terrible cheap service without getting any repurcussions for it. Because its coming out of taxes and employer benefits and not the consumers own pockets... to them it appears free and delicious. Though they wouldnt have any alternative even if they had a problem with it. Socialized healthcare like Medicare CANNOT work while the hospitals are run on profit. It leads to hospitals existing in the market but playing immune from the rules of it

At least in the new system (which I admit I havent even dived into much yet), it would appears patient have some choice and are actually aware of what theyre paying, even if its only through the insurance companies. Thereby the insurance companies have the incentive to make sure the hospitals arent hiking prices and ripping people off, which in turn lowers their prices and increases their consumer base against the competition.. or something like that.

But while Im on this tangent, thats the real issue and way to fix this... Take hospitals out of the profit sector. Almost any system involving hospitals and profit is bound to go bad, because hospitals make more money the more they treat you, and they treat you more if you stay sick. Also they have too much info on prices and procedures that only THEY know. How are we supposed to say how much that ER trip really cost, or how many appointments we really need. Theyre the doctors, they know more than us, and we trust them with our lives. And when hospitals are run on profit, this is all too easy to exploit. When business ethics is counted on to treat peoples lives, evil shit is unavoidable

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Medicare itself dictates how much it pays for procedures through its diagnosis related group (DRG) payments system. Do hospitals have an incentive to maximize DRG when coding? Sure and clearly some hospitals commit Medicare fraud. But on the average, hospitals do not like treating Medicare patients because they see lower returns than they do when they contract with HMO/PPO's, etc. Furthermore, when they opt into Medicare, they have to follow Federal rules related to Medicare.


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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Shack wrote:
But while Im on this tangent, thats the real issue and way to fix this... Take hospitals out of the profit sector. Almost any system involving hospitals and profit is bound to go bad, because hospitals make more money the more they treat you, and they treat you more if you stay sick. Also they have too much info on prices and procedures that only THEY know. How are we supposed to say how much that ER trip really cost, or how many appointments we really need. Theyre the doctors, they know more than us, and we trust them with our lives. And when hospitals are run on profit, this is all too easy to exploit. When business ethics is counted on to treat peoples lives, evil shit is unavoidable

Funny how every other industry can do well with a profit motive, yet health care somehow can't.

There's a good way to give people the incentive to 'shop around' for health care, if you will: raise the deductibles on private plans, and reimburse people for the higher deductibles with a Health Savings Account. This was outlined by the CEO of Whole Foods, which already uses this scheme, and is able to save a lot on health insurance costs.

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Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:00 pm
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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Krem wrote:
Shack wrote:
But while Im on this tangent, thats the real issue and way to fix this... Take hospitals out of the profit sector. Almost any system involving hospitals and profit is bound to go bad, because hospitals make more money the more they treat you, and they treat you more if you stay sick. Also they have too much info on prices and procedures that only THEY know. How are we supposed to say how much that ER trip really cost, or how many appointments we really need. Theyre the doctors, they know more than us, and we trust them with our lives. And when hospitals are run on profit, this is all too easy to exploit. When business ethics is counted on to treat peoples lives, evil shit is unavoidable

Funny how every other industry can do well with a profit motive, yet health care somehow can't.


There are quite a few big industries that don't work with a profit motive, and are based on taxes instead. Military, for example.


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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Don't is not the same thing as can't.

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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Krem wrote:
Don't is not the same thing as can't.


Erm, how does that change the point in any way? Or are you saying that military *could* operate equally as well if it were a commercial company?

You tried to claim that *every* other industry can work with a profit motive. Obviously this is not the case, and military is just one of many examples. So the basis of your claim was incorrect.


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Post Re: House passes health care bill on close vote
Tuukka wrote:
Krem wrote:
Don't is not the same thing as can't.


Erm, how does that change the point in any way? Or are you saying that military *could* operate equally as well if it were a commercial company?

You tried to claim that *every* other industry can work with a profit motive. Obviously this is not the case, and military is just one of many examples. So the basis of your claim was incorrect.

No it's not. Private military exists and it's a $100 billion+ industry.

Still, most military spending is done by governments, but not because military cannot function without a profit motive.

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