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Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
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Author:  Algren [ Fri May 25, 2018 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
3:40 shows nothing besides a man coming on to a woman, which is still legal as far as I'm aware.
Author:  Jedi Master Carr [ Fri May 25, 2018 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
I think it sounds like him be a dirty old man and nothing more. I don't think any less of his career because of it. He isn't Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby here.
Author:  stuffp [ Fri May 25, 2018 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Shack wrote:
Hollywood is full of shit wearing time's up pins when all of them are scared to say anything


That's the interesting part.
Author:  Algren [ Fri May 25, 2018 4:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
I think it sounds like him be a dirty old man and nothing more. I don't think any less of his career because of it. He isn't Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby here.


Exactly. A bit sleazy, but so what.

The thing is, because of the lack of Cosby's or Weinstein's in recent weeks, Freeman will now be treated as if he is one of them, when actually he's no different than Mark Sinclair...

Spoiler: show


But nobody seems to be outing his as a harasser. Hmm, I wonder why. It surely wouldn't have anything to do with being young, muscular, and hot. No, definitely not. ;)
Author:  Algren [ Fri May 25, 2018 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
So, Weinstein has been arrested? All I see now are reports of misandrists saying "why did it take so long?". Never satisfied. If he was arrested on day one they'd have said "why isn't he getting capital punishment?". If he got capital punishment on day one they'd have said "why not his kids too? we need to end the sexist bloodline!". If they did his kids too they'd have said "why not all men?".
Author:  i.hope [ Fri May 25, 2018 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Algren wrote:
So, Weinstein has been arrested? All I see now are reports of misandrists saying "why did it take so long?". Never satisfied. If he was arrested on day one they'd have said "why isn't he getting capital punishment?". If he got capital punishment on day one they'd have said "why not his kids too? we need to end the sexist bloodline!". If they did his kids too they'd have said "why not all men?".


That's your imaginary misandrist speaking in your head.
Author:  David [ Sat May 26, 2018 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Algren wrote:
3:40 shows nothing besides a man coming on to a woman, which is still legal as far as I'm aware.

Agreed. At the worst, perhaps it could be described as mildly creepy or lecherous (particularly once he mentions drooling). Mildly. But I would not even go so far. The cut from the interview clip to the ashen, grave faces of the women being interviewed is hilarious.
Author:  Barrabás [ Sat May 26, 2018 2:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
This may be controversial to say, but I can't believe they're actually going to trial for the Paz de la Huerta stuff. Obviously I have no idea what actually happened but her case is....complicated. They're going to have to convince a jury that it was plausible for her to invite him into her apartment after being raped by him because "this time we will only talk about the movie role you have for me, ok Mr. Weinstein?"

Again, I have no idea what happened and it's not unheard of for rape victims to want to take control of the situation and alleviate the trauma by either acting like nothing happened or trying to have sex with the rapist on their terms, but it doesn't look good to a jury. And if he gets acquitted then that will be quite a mess.
Author:  DP07 [ Sat May 26, 2018 3:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Magnus wrote:
Mister Ecks wrote:
I can't imagine hating women so much that you're upset some sleazy scumbags in Hollywood are getting what's been coming to them for treating women like sexual objects that want to see their dicks on command.


I don’t think anyone, even Algren, would say the punishment is not justified to many of those accused.


Then you speak too soon. No punishment is ever justified when it fails to address the real causes. Yes, I would include Hitler.

Quote:
But...I think the Matt Damon story is why men can seem “upset” about the cultural change going on. Many men feel people are treating everything in a binary fashion: you’re either a creep/rapist/abuser or you’re a saint.

Reality is that there is a gray area and that no one is perfect all the time. 99.9% of people, male or female, have done something sexist or racist in their life that crossed the line. If we have such a strict zero tolerance policy for anytime someone crossed the line and we applied that equally, we’d all be in social justice jail.


Different lines have different meanings. Who is saying otherwise?

Quote:
It’s very easy and convinent to make things binary. But every issue and problem in this world has nuance. Even the mostt ultimate sin in life, the act of murder, has a great deal of nuance and grey area. Right now, the MeTop movement is refusing to really accept any nuance and the movement will never reach its goal until it does.
[/quote][/quote]

I look at Twitter and I don’t get the impression that #TimeUp is primarily out for blood. Also what is the point of nuance without context? It’s one thing if someone talks about the male gaze with the goal of helping women, but it would take on a completely different meaning in a society where people were executed for a single glance. #MeToo is interpreted in the context of a society it was born into. Plus, this isn’t the Olympics. Trying to protect victims doesn’t necessarily require punishment. With Damon I got the impression men were first thinking of punishment and women of victims.
Author:  DP07 [ Sat May 26, 2018 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Algren wrote:
So, Weinstein has been arrested? All I see now are reports of misandrists saying "why did it take so long?". Never satisfied. If he was arrested on day one they'd have said "why isn't he getting capital punishment?". If he got capital punishment on day one they'd have said "why not his kids too? we need to end the sexist bloodline!". If they did his kids too they'd have said "why not all men?".


By next year the mob will probably kill us all when they get their way and decide that a planet filthy enough to produce Weinstein doesn’t deserve to survive!
Author:  Thegun [ Sun May 27, 2018 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
A. There is no capital punishment for the charges he's accused of
B. The mob?

Do you two have to remember to breathe?
Author:  Mister Ecks [ Sun May 27, 2018 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Morgan Freeman obviously comes from a time when all that behavior was normal. It's not that long ago that it was normal for men to feel like they could treat women like that. Does that make it right? Nah. It has to stop somewhere. But I don't think he should be ejected from Hollywood either. Situations like that should be learning experiences for everyone, especially those like him. A chance to reflect and realize that, hey, you can't sexually harass people under the guise of being nice and complimentary.
Author:  Algren [ Sun May 27, 2018 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
lol that wasn't sexual harassment. And yes you should be able to do that, because he did nothing wrong, at least nothing that needs to be legislated against. That sort of incident just needs women to say "oh fuck off you creep", and then it's solved, and we can move on to more pressing harassers like Weinstein.
Author:  Thegun [ Sun May 27, 2018 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
It's sad that "Me Too" has become a joke at this point.

It makes you never want to date again.
Author:  i.hope [ Sun May 27, 2018 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Quote:
In one incident (on the set of "Going in Style" in 2015), she said, Freeman "kept trying to lift up my skirt and asking if I was wearing underwear." He never successfully lifted her skirt, she said -- he would touch it and try to lift it, she would move away, and then he'd try again. Eventually, she said, "Alan [Arkin] made a comment telling him to stop. Morgan got freaked out and didn't know what to say."


https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/entertainment/morgan-freeman-accusations/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=image&utm_source=twCNN&utm_content=2018-05-24T15%3A02%3A18

If her description is true, he is more than a touchy-feely co-worker. A word of caution against this kind of aggressive behavior should be seen as plausible, right?
Author:  Algren [ Sun May 27, 2018 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
In isolation, sure that's not right. But you need more context to make a decision (and whether a decision by us even needs to be made is another thing).
Author:  BK [ Sun May 27, 2018 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Barrabás wrote:
This may be controversial to say, but I can't believe they're actually going to trial for the Paz de la Huerta stuff. Obviously I have no idea what actually happened but her case is....complicated. They're going to have to convince a jury that it was plausible for her to invite him into her apartment after being raped by him because "this time we will only talk about the movie role you have for me, ok Mr. Weinstein?"

Again, I have no idea what happened and it's not unheard of for rape victims to want to take control of the situation and alleviate the trauma by either acting like nothing happened or trying to have sex with the rapist on their terms, but it doesn't look good to a jury. And if he gets acquitted then that will be quite a mess.


I think it's difficult, but not impossible, for those who have not experienced/know someone who has been raped, to really understand the mindset.

Trauma does all kinds of things to a person. It's so much easier to say "She was asking for it" or "what an idiot" but so far from the truth the person is living in.
Author:  Caius [ Mon May 28, 2018 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
DP07 wrote:
Magnus wrote:
I don’t think anyone, even Algren, would say the punishment is not justified to many of those accused.


Then you speak too soon. No punishment is ever justified when it fails to address the real causes. Yes, I would include Hitler.


So unless we solve the problem of why men commit violence against other men, no punishment is "justified"?

Spoiler: show
This will never be known, especially if Hitler doesn't meet your standard.


If we could prove that Harvey Weinstein was molested as a child and that this was the one and only "real cause" for why he treated women the way he did, we can justify punishing him but if we don't bother to find out the "real cause" punishment is not "justified"?
Author:  tree and a half [ Tue May 29, 2018 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Episode IV: The Woody Allen Allegations: Not So Fast
Episode..V: An Open Letter From Dylan Farrow
Episode VI: A Son Speaks Out by Moses Farrow
Author:  stuffp [ Tue May 29, 2018 2:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Missed you tree
Author:  Algren [ Tue May 29, 2018 2:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
I wonder if tree has a sidekick called rabbit.
Author:  Malcolm [ Tue May 29, 2018 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
http://deadline.com/2018/05/morgan-free ... 202398973/

This one looks like it's going to be a back and forth.
Author:  stuffp [ Tue May 29, 2018 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
That's very interesting, and so soap opera-ish...I think there's probably a lot of truth in Freeman having something of a womanizing nature...however yet to have seen or hear any proof where he crossed a line...and this Melas woman from CNN, she really seems in it for her own glory.
Author:  i.hope [ Tue May 29, 2018 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
i.hope wrote:
Quote:
In one incident (on the set of "Going in Style" in 2015), she said, Freeman "kept trying to lift up my skirt and asking if I was wearing underwear." He never successfully lifted her skirt, she said -- he would touch it and try to lift it, she would move away, and then he'd try again. Eventually, she said, "Alan [Arkin] made a comment telling him to stop. Morgan got freaked out and didn't know what to say."


https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/entertainment/morgan-freeman-accusations/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=image&utm_source=twCNN&utm_content=2018-05-24T15%3A02%3A18

If her description is true, he is more than a touchy-feely co-worker. A word of caution against this kind of aggressive behavior should be seen as plausible, right?


Maybe Alan Arkin can clear this up by corroborating or rejecting her account. :)
Author:  DP07 [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Caius wrote:
DP07 wrote:
Magnus wrote:
I don’t think anyone, even Algren, would say the punishment is not justified to many of those accused.


Then you speak too soon. No punishment is ever justified when it fails to address the real causes. Yes, I would include Hitler.


So unless we solve the problem of why men commit violence against other men, no punishment is "justified"?


Unless you are solving a problem, a punishment is an excuse for the powers that fail to create change. If you’re not making a difference by enabling change, you’re perpetuating the problem and blaming others. If you could create change, then you could make a difference by giving people a chance to be rehabilitated.

Spoiler: show
This will never be known


It’s unknowable why Venezuela has its murder rate?

Quote:
If we could prove that Harvey Weinstein was molested as a child and that this was the one and only "real cause" for why he treated women the way he did, we can justify punishing him but if we don't bother to find out the "real cause" punishment is not "justified"?


This is nonsense. These problems are complex and for a single factor to be the cause, it would need to mean that it would always cause a problem under any set of circumstances or environment.
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