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Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
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Author:  lesterg [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Not bad.

https://apologygenerator.com/
Author:  Malcolm [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Tambor has absolutely not acknowledged doing the things he's accused of, by the way, so don't anyone act like he's admitted to sexual assault (or whatever everyone's on to now).
Author:  Malcolm [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Another thing about this Transparent mess, I don't quite get the argument that the trans character must be played by a trans actor. Doesn't that seem like a narrow window to confine yourself to? Trans only can play trans and nothing else, straight actors will play straight people and gay actors must play all the gays from now on. All actors must only act as their own real world sexual orientation and to do otherwise is offensive.

This next part is in response to people being judged on past behaviors through the 2017 Lens. Do people realize, simply by going what was acceptable on film/tv in past decades, that times were different? That is absolutely NOT an excuse for harassment but it is a factor. I mean, people seem happy to act like this is exclusive to the entertainment industry but it sure isn't.

If the goal now is to parse any/everyone's personal history going back decades, every "regular joe" over the age of 40 has probably engaged in some behavior towards women that 2017 considers inappropriate so shouldn't they all be outed on twitter? Their jobs, at least, can be taken from them for social restitution as that seems to be a blanket required consequence for anything--grabbing an ass 30 years ago, raping a teenager, making "lewd" comments 10 years ago, it's all equal somehow.

Sarcasm and attitude aside, my issue--again--is this 0-60 nature of things. There is the accusation, and then regardless of what the guy responds with (a denial, an apology, silence) he is considered guilty...because? "Believe Women"? What happened to follow up questions and vetting information and all that crazy nonsense? You aren't calling someone a liar by simply asking for more information. Also, this may just be me, but if someone starts their story to me with "You have to believe everything I'm about to say" then my kneejerk reaction is to *not* believe them.

I'm just coming here and venting, apparently, because all I see everywhere--aside from on Real Time, which is sadly gone until January :(--are false headlines, presumptions of guilt based on nothing, and general failures at reporting and observing.
Author:  Algren [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Malcolm, please become a regular active poster.
Author:  nghtvsn [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Quote:
then regardless of what the guy responds with (a denial, an apology, silence) he is considered guilty...because? "Believe Women"? What happened to follow up questions and vetting information and all that crazy nonsense? You aren't calling someone a liar by simply asking for more information. Also, this may just be me, but if someone starts their story to me with "You have to believe everything I'm about to say


This is how the SJW crowd, leftist bots and media operate. This isn't new.

Btw, certain people have denied everything like Piven which leads me to believe him up front while folks like the soon to be unemployed Charlie Rose, disgraced Franken, Weinstein, Spacey have admitted to wrongdoing in one form or another which is totally opposite of a guy like Piven or even that Girls producer who I think has denied his accusers allegation.

Also, I'm not a fan of of this modern day salem witch trial version of folks coming out of the woodworks making accusations that in most cases the accused has no way of defending themselves against unless they actually fess up to something like the above folks. I don't see how we allow people to get away with unproveable accusations.
Author:  Mister Ecks [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
I don't know if I buy into some of these arguments. I'll offer my unwanted two cents:

-"The times were different" yes. But you have to look at most of these accusations and the repercussions more closely. A lot of the indiscretions occurred in the last twenty years. Weinstein, Louis CK (early-to-mid 2000s), Charlie Rose (late 90s to 2011), Spacey (many people seem to suggest he was always guilty of this behavior). Most of these things happened long after it should have been deemed unacceptable. I don't care that Charlie Rose is an old man. You are a prominent public figure, you should know things that were maybe more commonplace in the 60s or 70s aren't acceptable today.

-"We can't believe ALL the accusations!" This is true. And aside from kneejerk reactors that will jump on things anyway, I don't think a lot of the accused are being punished unless there are clear admissions or heavy evidence. Spacey, CK, Charlie Rose, even Tambor, they all either admit to the behavior or at least try to justify that their behavior was maybe more funny than serious (that's what I get from Tambor).

Guys like Stallone, Hoffman, Takei. They have accusations dating back decades. And I haven't seen them punished at all, except maybe a brief mention. That's because the accusations are extremely difficult to prove and there aren't multiple accusers. I don't think any of them will have lasting damage, unless they allow themselves to be punished, or if more accusations come to light.

I fall in the middle of a lot of the arguments made. I don't think everyone has become a pariah due to any accusation hurled around, but for those that admit to it and especially depending on the severity, punishment should be handed down. We can't just say "OK, let's forget anything that may depend on the times and only punish any indiscretions AFTER 2016".

If you read my nonsense, thanks. I'm just trying to add some substance to both arguments.
Author:  lesterg [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Wow, John Lasseter admits to personal “missteps” and will take a leave of absence* from Disney.

http://www.slashfilm.com/john-lasseter- ... legations/

(*there is no chance in hell he will be returning. They’ll probably be negotiating an exit throughout Thanksgiving)
Author:  Corpse [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Well... I wonder what's to become of John Lasseter now. He's taking a 6-month leave of absence from Pixar, but one or a few claims/accounts has typically become numerous in the following days.
Author:  Algren [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Why wouldn't he return? So he gave a few unwanted hugs. Big deal.
Author:  lesterg [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Groping, making sexually explicit comments to female employees, allegedly coming to work drunk, allegedly showing up drunk to corporate events. Creating a culture where female employees need to strategize what they wear, where they sit and how to handle being embraced by him to avoid kisses or groping. Would you want to deal with that on a daily basis?

There’s no place for that stuff in corporate life. None.
Author:  Algren [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
lol, those are all such trivial matters. He's just an over-friendly boss, and if employees have a problem they can tell him or raise it with HR at Disney.
Author:  lesterg [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Algren wrote:
lol, those are all such trivial matters. He's just an over-friendly boss, and if employees have a problem they can tell him or raise it with HR at Disney.


Or he could stop acting like a freak at the office.

It's not trivial to the person it's happening to. He created a culture of fear among his female employees. People shouldn’t have to deal with that shit when they just want to get their fucking work done.

He's not Weinstein. But there is no chance in hell that Disney (or almost any company) can keep someone like that in a leadership position. He'll step down, get a big check and probably take on a consulting role.
Author:  Shack [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Mister Ecks wrote:
I don't know if I buy into some of these arguments. I'll offer my unwanted two cents:

-"The times were different" yes. But you have to look at most of these accusations and the repercussions more closely. A lot of the indiscretions occurred in the last twenty years. Weinstein, Louis CK (early-to-mid 2000s), Charlie Rose (late 90s to 2011), Spacey (many people seem to suggest he was always guilty of this behavior). Most of these things happened long after it should have been deemed unacceptable. I don't care that Charlie Rose is an old man. You are a prominent public figure, you should know things that were maybe more commonplace in the 60s or 70s aren't acceptable today.

-"We can't believe ALL the accusations!" This is true. And aside from kneejerk reactors that will jump on things anyway, I don't think a lot of the accused are being punished unless there are clear admissions or heavy evidence. Spacey, CK, Charlie Rose, even Tambor, they all either admit to the behavior or at least try to justify that their behavior was maybe more funny than serious (that's what I get from Tambor).

Guys like Stallone, Hoffman, Takei. They have accusations dating back decades. And I haven't seen them punished at all, except maybe a brief mention. That's because the accusations are extremely difficult to prove and there aren't multiple accusers. I don't think any of them will have lasting damage, unless they allow themselves to be punished, or if more accusations come to light.

I fall in the middle of a lot of the arguments made. I don't think everyone has become a pariah due to any accusation hurled around, but for those that admit to it and especially depending on the severity, punishment should be handed down. We can't just say "OK, let's forget anything that may depend on the times and only punish any indiscretions AFTER 2016".

If you read my nonsense, thanks. I'm just trying to add some substance to both arguments.


I agree, I think the subdued reaction to ones with single accusers like Stallone and Takei have been treated have shown that there's been a line drawn between them and the real career enders like Spacey and Weinstein who are obviously guilty. Then again I haven't been on twitter very often recently due to avoiding wrestling spoilers so it's possible I'm missing how bloodthirsty the SJWs have been on there lately. Last time I checked SJWs on twitter were an increasingly out of control echo chamber.
Author:  Algren [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
lesterg wrote:
People shouldn’t have to deal with that shit when they just want to get their fucking work done.


At some point, women have to learn to grow a backbone and say "no, that's not right. Please do not do that in future. Thank you.". Lasseter goes, ok, but then there are still men like that around. Maybe not your boss, but a customer or a rep or agent or your uncle. Women have to learn how to deal with these men in a professional manner too. And I see people like Lasseter as great training for female employees, not threats. Weinstein is a different case, and of course needed to be dealt with.
Author:  tree and a half [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
lesterg wrote:
Wow, John Lasseter admits to personal “missteps” and will take a leave of absence* from Disney.

http://www.slashfilm.com/john-lasseter- ... legations/

(*there is no chance in hell he will be returning. They’ll probably be negotiating an exit throughout Thanksgiving)
Pixar/Disney must be waiting for the morning news cycle to announce the withdrawal of Coco from theatres. They surely can't be going ahead with showing the work of a sexual predator to little children?!? I am glad they are demonstrating the moral courage of so many production companies and removing this filth from our media. Even if they somehow could sink so low that they go ahead with Coco's release today, surely all parents who rightly believe in social justice will boycott the film and keep their children far away from this tainted movie.
Author:  Mister Ecks [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Algren wrote:
lol, those are all such trivial matters. He's just an over-friendly boss, and if employees have a problem they can tell him or raise it with HR at Disney.


OK, I'm really trying to see things from your point of view and also try to explain to you how it may feel to a woman to work in these conditions. Here is what may go through the mind of a woman (or man) working like this:

-My boss is very touchy-feely. He hugs a lot. His hand may touch my knee occasionally. The touch may linger.

-Today, I'm going to work. Will he hug me today? If he does, do I break away first? If I do, will he take that as rejection of his possibly friendly gesture? If I allow it to continue for too long, will he take that as a sign that I'm into the affection? If I leave it up to him to break away, will he try something more than just a friendly hug? Will the hug be a little too close? Do I draw a line?

-If I raise this subject to him as something I'm not comfortable with, if it is just a friendly gesture, will he see me as a troublemaker and not allow me to progress in the company? If it's not a friendly gesture and it's something more, will he feel rejected and react with hostility towards me, either verbally or mentally over time? Will he actively pursue reasons to fire me?

-If I raise the subject to someone else (HR, a friend, a colleague, etc.), will they believe me? If they do believe me, will this be confidential? Will it somehow get back to my boss? If they don't believe me, will they laugh it off and tell me I'm overthinking it? Will they think I'm causing trouble and potentially creating a tense work environment? Am I creating a tense work environment by doing this? Maybe it really is just a friendly thing and he doesn't realize... maybe I should let this go and forget it. Or maybe it will lead to him thinking it opens the door for other forms of affection?
Author:  lesterg [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
tree and a half wrote:
lesterg wrote:
Wow, John Lasseter admits to personal “missteps” and will take a leave of absence* from Disney.

http://www.slashfilm.com/john-lasseter- ... legations/

(*there is no chance in hell he will be returning. They’ll probably be negotiating an exit throughout Thanksgiving)
Pixar/Disney must be waiting for the morning news cycle to announce the withdrawal of Coco from theatres. They surely can't be going ahead with showing the work of a sexual predator to little children?!? I am glad they are demonstrating the moral courage of so many production companies and removing this filth from our media. Even if they somehow could sink so low that they go ahead with Coco's release today, surely all parents who rightly believe in social justice will boycott the film and keep their children far away from this tainted movie.


Yeah, that's what we're saying.
Author:  lesterg [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Mister Ecks wrote:
Algren wrote:
lol, those are all such trivial matters. He's just an over-friendly boss, and if employees have a problem they can tell him or raise it with HR at Disney.


OK, I'm really trying to see things from your point of view and also try to explain to you how it may feel to a woman to work in these conditions. Here is what may go through the mind of a woman (or man) working like this:

-My boss is very touchy-feely. He hugs a lot. His hand may touch my knee occasionally. The touch may linger.

-Today, I'm going to work. Will he hug me today? If he does, do I break away first? If I do, will he take that as rejection of his possibly friendly gesture? If I allow it to continue for too long, will he take that as a sign that I'm into the affection? If I leave it up to him to break away, will he try something more than just a friendly hug? Will the hug be a little too close? Do I draw a line?

-If I raise this subject to him as something I'm not comfortable with, if it is just a friendly gesture, will he see me as a troublemaker and not allow me to progress in the company? If it's not a friendly gesture and it's something more, will he feel rejected and react with hostility towards me, either verbally or mentally over time? Will he actively pursue reasons to fire me?

-If I raise the subject to someone else (HR, a friend, a colleague, etc.), will they believe me? If they do believe me, will this be confidential? Will it somehow get back to my boss? If they don't believe me, will they laugh it off and tell me I'm overthinking it? Will they think I'm causing trouble and potentially creating a tense work environment? Am I creating a tense work environment by doing this? Maybe it really is just a friendly thing and he doesn't realize... maybe I should let this go and forget it. Or maybe it will lead to him thinking it opens the door for other forms of affection?


Bingo on all points. The idea that someone can just "go to HR" about one of the most powerful men in the industry and everything will be a-ok with their career path at Disney/Pixar shows complete ignorance about how things actually work.
Author:  Algren [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Ignorance? No. Now you show complete ignorance to my comment! We can do this all day. I am well aware that going to HR may affect careers, but that's what needed to be done. By everyone. And it still needs to be done. Sure, the Harvey's and Lasseter's can be outed on Twitter, but Sears Store Manager in little old Cypress, Texas isn't going to get much traction on Twitter. That's what HR is for. Women need to be braver. Not hiding behind their computers, hoping that the poacher press fights their battles.
Author:  lesterg [ Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Hey, we agree there. I hope the day comes when people were able to go to HR without fear of reprisals from corporate and/or person they're reporting.

But having been in management positions at both mom & pop and large corporations: HR normally just circles the wagons around the more powerful party.
Author:  DP07 [ Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
lesterg wrote:
Acquiring it was a stupid decision. Not releasing it in this climate is a smart one. Let shit blow over.


As a movie it is probably as difficult to watch as the trailer. But I think it is now good as a piece or case study of history.
Author:  DP07 [ Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Mister Ecks wrote:
I don't think anyone is lumping anyone together. What Louis C.K. did was wrong, and I think it's appropriate that if these accusations are true, he shouldn't get away with it. It's like saying mass murder and robbery aren't the same. Of course they aren't, but because one isn't as "bad" as the other doesn't mean a thief should get away with it.

The only story I've heard so far that I think is exaggerated is Dustin Hoffman. i honestly believe, unless there are other stories or additions to the original story, that he was caught with an infatuation with an attractive girl who was 17 and not interested. I don't think he should be vilified, if the story is what it is.


Only culture deserves to be vilified.
Author:  DP07 [ Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
Mister Ecks wrote:
Like the Dustin Hoffman story, I'm not sure about the George Takei story. It's an isolated incident that is contingent on believing Takei slipped the accuser roofies, although it sounds like it could easily be a matter of alcohol being the cause and blurring memories? If it's not just a straight-up lie.

These incidents don't tend to be isolated (Cosby, Weinstein, Spacey). I know it's not impossible, but it seems sketchy at best.


If you don’t believe it when it is isolated then you will think they don’t tend to be. Also if it is isolated, it may never be reported on.
Author:  DP07 [ Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
What’s the argument for era of the incident mattering? An action is what it is.
Author:  nghtvsn [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Edit: Hollywood Sexual Harassment Allegations
BYE BYE MATTY

Now if Colbert can go I'll have my christmas wish answered.
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