All this arguing is exhausting.

Because he's selfless and, you know, Superman?

Here's the simplest way to break it down, if we're running with your thought that he said Martha because he knew Batman's past.

"Save my mom" = Save my mom.

"Save Martha" = What the fuck are you doing, please stop hitting me.

I don't see an issue with either. You do. I don't really care that you do, but alas. Here we are. Saying it's shitty writing is stupid. Saying you didn't like it is fine.

It's a fundamental betrayal of Superman's character.

But hey, it's just character. I don't think that detail ever really concerns you much.

Indeed. Also repetitive. Maybe just agree to disagree.

When we start delving into what does/doesn't make the character of Superman, that's when it becomes a slippery slope. Everyone has their own definition of who he is. He's not the Reeves Superman.

Yeah, he's an asshole. I'm stealing this line from Faraci, but it's like taking Strawberry Shortcake and making the movie about the dangers of Diabetes.

If you read the /Film link I posted, he's always been a dick, or at least, he started that way. And he doesn't do too many dick things in this, moreso in MOS.

But Faraci hates dark tones, so his opinion is moot.

The film was quite a lot of fun for the most part. It's Superman, Batman AND Wonder Woman on screen, and that's just really cool. But the film never becomes epic. There's times where I thought, this is good I like it, and there's some really enjoyable scenes. But it never fits together. Visually it really is great, and there's some good uses of music but nothing that sticks with me (which is surprising from Zimmer and Junkie XL). The film is just too haphazardly changes tone it never allows me too get into it. Amy Adams is good, but she just never feels like a Lois to me. The bath tub scene is probably the most epic thing in the movie though.
Also what others mentions a lot of stuff just feels out of place, the desert stuff, ok they had to create some narrative, and I love Callan Mulvey so it was a nice introduction, but it feels so unnecessary to have the bullet plot in there.
I'm a proponent of story and character development and this just lacked it so badly. Batman is given the most of a story arc, and Affleck really superbly fulfills it. Irons is also great as the sidekick butler.
The film had enough going for it, that I quite liked it, up until the point where B and S went at it with each other. Even though the fighting itself was pretty cool, and realistically too with Batman using the Krypton and I guess they all had to set that up, but it was so poorly told.
As someone also mentioned, a. Superman not being a fully hearted attempted explaining his story to Batman, for something that was obviously dearly important to him, but ok maybe he was overcome with emotions and; b. Batman not giving him a chance to explain himself about anything. I mean these guys are adults, super-intelligent adults and they prefer to fight it our over having a dialogue, I just find that so hard to believe, but I guess OK it's a comic book.
The romance between Lois and Superman does feel genuine, already thought so in MoS, there's chemistry between the actors, but Snyder just does a poor job highlighting it. I never felt an emotional connect with the film, also not when Superman died, because, and maybe I shouldn't I've read something of the kind already. And of course he would come back, everyone knew there's going to be a JL movie with Superman back in it. Just from what we know from MoS, and the Dark Knight trilogy which was sooo recent, this film didn't make much sense.
And Lex Luthor, he was fine, very zany, joker-like really, I wasn't bothered by it. It was a good performance from Eisenberg anyway, and I like Holly Hunter's role as well. The capitol explosion was really well shot, and the bit where the film keys in to moments from MoS with Bruce Wayne racing into Metropolis was one of the parts I enjoyed the most.
Mwah, film had its good moments, but left a bad taste in my mouth.

C

I don't think there's any one definitive version of a character. I do think that there are specific things that make a character a character, and when you remove all of those things, it is no longer that character anymore.

I'd disagree with that. Make Batman a tranny rapist with a foot fetish for all I care, just be interesting and find a way to justify it.

Being faithful to a comic can eat it. Sucking in general just on standard film ideas, that's my problem. That being said, there is nothing in here to make me not see Bagman or Superman. The characterization are fine, even inspired. Lex Luthor on the other hand might be the worst interpretation of a supposed master villain ever to grace the screen.

I'm looking forward to the first Bagman v Superman movie - $255m/$955m.



(I hear his superpower is smell.)

Finally, after all these years, the spiritual sequel to Godzilla vs The Smog Monster I've always been gagging for.

Listening to Empire's podcast spoiler review: http://comicbook.com/2016/03/31/batman- ... -darkseid/

The complaint that "I want Superman to be hopeful and a savior and bright" etc, are worn out on me.

So I saw this last night. It goes against every goodwill bone in my body, but what a mess this film is. Jesse Eisenberg is crap. Wonder Woman is crap. Doomsday is crap. Jeremy Irons is wasted. Affleck is actually awesome. Cavill is Cavill (some of his later lines are so corny and badly delivered). It is a film full of grand ideas with no little stuff to break it up, so it's just too much, too often, and it's in your face the entire time. There is good stuff, obviously, but overall it feels like a rushed idea.

lol at how Batman changes his mind about Superman IN AN INSTANT! He's bezzie mates with him after absolutely detesting him seconds earlier. I don't know what grade I give this yet, but it comes no where near the masterpiece that is Man of Steel. Where was the soundtrack? I expected a similar score to Man of Steel but it was non-existent.

A lot of the action is an inconceivable mess. The 3D is unneeded. One of the things I was really disappointed in was how before the release all the fan boys were saying that Batman was this great detective and he could defeat Superman in a number of ways...and then all he did (which is what all of us knew anyway) was to get some Kryptonite to weaken Superman, because let's be honest, NOTHING else would make sense on screen as a way for Batman defeating Superman.

There was obviously good stuff in the film, but nothing I care to mention at the moment. I would like to see it again in 2D and see if that changes anything. At the moment, I think I will give it ...

C+

Are you teasing Sparrow in the Young Messiah thread?

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

How? Why?

He's super critical and only gives a mildly bad grade.

I'm not surprised actually BvS is the kind of film that gets better after another or multiple viewings. The film is just so chock-full of things, and never takes a real breather, it's from spectacle to spectacle in every scene. With more viewings it's likely I pick out other things I do like. However it just has such a bunch of fundamental flaws that are unrecoverable from, and mostly that's just sad, that they didn't treat the source material with the preciousness it deserved.

Agreed. Its better when you aren't judging and try to enjoy as a guilty pleasure.

It would've been nice if Warners made a film that was good on a first viewing.

Then again, who knows? Maybe the film will be "very good" when we get the 210 minute Ultimate Director's Cut.

And that "the heart is in the viewer" quote by Smith is embarrassing. "Please just let me work in Hollywood or with Affleck again."

Another significant example I think that should be mentioned that Warner doesn't seem to care about the viewer: the 3D. Because of the way Snyder shot the film it's probably the most unsuitable film to show in 3D. There's such a dim light on most of the scenes, that with 3D glasses it's becomes just bad to have a clear view. Very annoying, and took a lot of enjoyment out of watching it. Watching it in 2D should give it a better experience.

IMAX 3D was fine in my viewing though I do agree it doesn't do ANYTHING with 3D for such a HUGE spectacle. Not even a single scene is memorable in the format.