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 Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 

What grade would you give this film?
A 25%  25%  [ 9 ]
B 17%  17%  [ 6 ]
C 22%  22%  [ 8 ]
D 17%  17%  [ 6 ]
F 19%  19%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 36

 Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
stuffp wrote:
Algren wrote:
When Bruce is running towards Wayne Enterprises at the beginning when Superman and Zod are destroying Metropolis, he is shouting "Dad!". I thought his dad died when he was a young boy. Does anybody have more info on that? Any cast interview or something explaining that that man is his foster dad?


I also just started watching the Ultimate Edition, I got about 20min left, which I'll finish tomorrow.
About this part, I didn't check it back yet, but I recall him actually saying "Jack!".


In that case, who is Jack?


Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:21 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
The old guy who seems to be on charge of that floor in Wayne's building, he's talking to Bruce on the phone first, when Bruce says "get everyone out of the building", which actually I found a bit funny, because danger is imminent and they're waiting for the boss' call/ permission to leave it almost felt like. Then later when the office is empty, except Jack is still there, and Bruce is trying to call him, but he doesn't answer, he's running towards the building and shouts his name.


Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:27 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
So after putting it off for so long I finally watched the Ultimate Edition and honestly I have to agree with Algren that it's definitely an improvement. I'd also boost my original grade of a C+ back up to a B. It's still far from perfect and not exactly the Batman Vs. Superman film I would have wanted, but it flows so much better and the political thriller aspect of the first half feels so much more fleshed out. In a weird way I've begun to kind of like the idea of slow burn mystery/thriller with all the epic superhero action saved for the third act. This movie definitely delivers on that front too and I don't know if it's because I haven't seen the theatrical cut in so long, but something about the Doomsday fight seemed a lot more satisfying this time around.

The warehouse sequence is still badass as ever and that score by Hans Zimmer and Junkie XL has never been more suitably fitting. Maybe it also has a lot to do with me seeing Suicide Squad and Justice League and being pretty unimpressed with both, but I can honestly say without a doubt that Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice UE is my favorite film in the DCEU now.


Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:49 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
stuffp wrote:
The old guy who seems to be on charge of that floor in Wayne's building, he's talking to Bruce on the phone first, when Bruce says "get everyone out of the building", which actually I found a bit funny, because danger is imminent and they're waiting for the boss' call/ permission to leave it almost felt like. Then later when the office is empty, except Jack is still there, and Bruce is trying to call him, but he doesn't answer, he's running towards the building and shouts his name.

lol. I know the person he is calling for, but WHO is Jack? Why is he so important to Bruce that he is shouting just his name as he runs toward the building? Like, is he a family member? Why just this guy?


Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:55 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
I think that "Jack" is given importance in this scene as he was also shown in MoS's final battle so there is a connection and they wanted it look strong and show how it hurts Bruce without actually explaining it.


Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:26 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
He’s not in Man of Steel.

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Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:44 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Jack Sparrow wrote:
I think that "Jack" is given importance in this scene as he was also shown in MoS's final battle so there is a connection and they wanted it look strong and show how it hurts Bruce without actually explaining it.

Yeah, not sure I believe that. I've watched both Man of Steel and BvS recently and there is no crossover in terms of characters at that point.


Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:16 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
The dream sequence with the one-shot fight between Batman and that tactical unit is great but severely flawed by guys waiting to be hit. I don't know if there is a name for this. There should be. It happens all the damn time.


Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:42 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Algren wrote:
Jack Sparrow wrote:
I think that "Jack" is given importance in this scene as he was also shown in MoS's final battle so there is a connection and they wanted it look strong and show how it hurts Bruce without actually explaining it.

Yeah, not sure I believe that. I've watched both Man of Steel and BvS recently and there is no crossover in terms of characters at that point.


I somehow remember Jack on phone during the final battle scene of MoS. Let me see if I can find something around it.

EDIT: I checked the final scenes and I agree I am wrong. Weird I was somehow sure I saw him in MoS.


Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:54 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
The only real enjoyment I got out of this while enduring my girlfriend dragging me to the cinema to see it was.............well ok two things.

1. The utterly hilarious butcher of the editing. Maybe they just filmed all this shit disjointed or something I dunno, but I have not felt this sick from shifting movement since the last time I played robo recall for too long on VR. But only in robo recall where i at least got to enjoy ripping robots to bits before barfing this tone shift crap was like a half finished wank and then somebody sapled my nuts when i was distracted.

2. Batman, wait im sorry i mean MURDERMAN! sweet jesus he must has killed 20 people in this thing. I like how the film embraced batmans true purpose as some nutty ultra right wing crusher of the common crime folk.

Other then that ugh, well ok at least it was not as bad as suicide squad, i would rather get bleach into my retinas then endure that again.

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Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:39 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
stuffp wrote:
I'm not surprised actually BvS is the kind of film that gets better after another or multiple viewings. The film is just so chock-full of things, and never takes a real breather, it's from spectacle to spectacle in every scene. With more viewings it's likely I pick out other things I do like. However it just has such a bunch of fundamental flaws that are unrecoverable from, and mostly that's just sad, that they didn't treat the source material with the preciousness it deserved.


So I also just watched the Ultimate Edition, last weekend, in 2D.

These was my original review of the 3D Cinema Version

Spoiler: show
stuffp wrote:
The film was quite a lot of fun for the most part. It's Superman, Batman AND Wonder Woman on screen, and that's just really cool. But the film never becomes epic. There's times where I thought, this is good I like it, and there's some really enjoyable scenes. But it never fits together. Visually it really is great, and there's some good uses of music but nothing that sticks with me (which is surprising from Zimmer and Junkie XL). The film is just too haphazardly changes tone it never allows me too get into it. Amy Adams is good, but she just never feels like a Lois to me. The bath tub scene is probably the most epic thing in the movie though.
Also what others mentions a lot of stuff just feels out of place, the desert stuff, ok they had to create some narrative, and I love Callan Mulvey so it was a nice introduction, but it feels so unnecessary to have the bullet plot in there.
I'm a proponent of story and character development and this just lacked it so badly. Batman is given the most of a story arc, and Affleck really superbly fulfills it. Irons is also great as the sidekick butler.
The film had enough going for it, that I quite liked it, up until the point where B and S went at it with each other. Even though the fighting itself was pretty cool, and realistically too with Batman using the Krypton and I guess they all had to set that up, but it was so poorly told.
As someone also mentioned, a. Superman not being a fully hearted attempted explaining his story to Batman, for something that was obviously dearly important to him, but ok maybe he was overcome with emotions and; b. Batman not giving him a chance to explain himself about anything. I mean these guys are adults, super-intelligent adults and they prefer to fight it our over having a dialogue, I just find that so hard to believe, but I guess OK it's a comic book.
The romance between Lois and Superman does feel genuine, already thought so in MoS, there's chemistry between the actors, but Snyder just does a poor job highlighting it. I never felt an emotional connect with the film, also not when Superman died, because, and maybe I shouldn't I've read something of the kind already. And of course he would come back, everyone knew there's going to be a JL movie with Superman back in it. Just from what we know from MoS, and the Dark Knight trilogy which was sooo recent, this film didn't make much sense.
And Lex Luthor, he was fine, very zany, joker-like really, I wasn't bothered by it. It was a good performance from Eisenberg anyway, and I like Holly Hunter's role as well. The capitol explosion was really well shot, and the bit where the film keys in to moments from MoS with Bruce Wayne racing into Metropolis was one of the parts I enjoyed the most.
Mwah, film had its good moments, but left a bad taste in my mouth.

C


So I highlight 2D, because it definitely looked better this way. And overall I did get more enjoyment out of the film. The film flows better, with the extension to a lot of the scenes. It's not a dull 3hrs at all. I also really picked up on the score this time, which I'd say the most best and most wholesome part of the film I think.
I still find faults and flaws in some of the plot-lines, I don't like how they tried to set up the framing Supes for the African thing, and the motivation of Supes and Batman to fight each other never feels earned to me. The film definitely got Wonder Woman right anyway, and the final Doomsday fight is good, but the ending of the film feels forced. Trying to deal with both Supes and Kent's death, and setting up the next film, it felt rushed and not neat.

But I can feel the film's ambition, it's still flawed in execution but the scene extensions make the good moments better and it becomes a more enjoyable watch than the cinema version. I also went back to my yearly list of 2016, and the Ultimate Edition belongs in the B- category.

As some others also said; as a whole this is just miles above Justice League.

Not sure where this would be considered R-rated anywhere though.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:58 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Jmart wrote:
New, small problem this time around: Why the hell doesn't Lois ever tell Clark that the wheelchair was made out of lead and he never could've seen the bomb coming? You'd think once he came back that'd be the first thing she'd tell him.


So, I tried to pay attention to this, because I read it here.
From what I understood, Lois only found out about the wheelchair being made out of lead after the explosion, when it was established by forensics. She then made the conclusion, "Superman couldn't have seen/ prevented it".


Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:11 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Yep I think Jmart is saying the same thing that after the explosion she could have told him about the lead chair.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:39 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
^

Yep. Now granted, Lois and Superman don’t spend much time together in the third act. He saves her from falling to her death, he visits her again before she gets in a taxi, she arrives right before Batman is about to kill him, and they have a final moment before he dies. It’s all about maybe three minutes of screen time. Most of those moments she wouldn’t have the time or it wouldn’t have been appropriate, but I don’t get why she wouldn’t say it to him quickly standing outside the taxi before he flies to try to reason with Batman. It would’ve reaffirmed his faith in himself and added to that Costner scene which still makes no sense (Batman has hallucinations and so does Superman!). It also would’ve added to his “This is my world. You’re my world.” line to Lois at the end. She always supported him and never stopped when everyone else seemingly did (at least to him). It’s a missed opportunity that would’ve taken five seconds.

Also, is it ever explained that he can’t see through lead? Did Lex know that when building the bomb or did he just get lucky? If he knew, how did he learn that? The audience knows he can’t see through lead because of the history of the character, but was that established in Man of Steel or earlier in DOJ? If it wasn’t, that’s really lazy.

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Last edited by Jmart on Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:18 am, edited 3 times in total.



Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:14 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Uh, right, my answer to Jmart there was rather unnecessary actually.

But then again, why is it still point for needing to tell Supes/ Clark about it then? To know Luthor was behind it?

Anyway, I didn't see a fault with this, but that the story is flawed, that is without a doubt for me (too).

So far, from a directing standpoint I can't say Snyder did a bad job with this (the Ultimate Edition), but he did a lot of the writing too, and that I suggest him to stay away from.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:18 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Jmart wrote:
Also, is it ever explained that he can’t see through lead? Did Lex know that when building the bomb or did he just get lucky? If he knew, how did he learn that? The audience knows he can’t see through lead because of the history of the character, but was that established in Man of Steel or earlier in DOJ? If it wasn’t, that’s really lazy.


I don't think so, and yeah, the writing obviously could have/ should have been better. Then again, if everything is explained before hand, that could work against a film too.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:21 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
stuffp wrote:
Jmart wrote:
Also, is it ever explained that he can’t see through lead? Did Lex know that when building the bomb or did he just get lucky? If he knew, how did he learn that? The audience knows he can’t see through lead because of the history of the character, but was that established in Man of Steel or earlier in DOJ? If it wasn’t, that’s really lazy.


I don't think so, and yeah, the writing obviously could have/ should have been better. Then again, if everything is explained before hand, that could work against a film too.


True, but they could’ve planted it in earlier in the film. In Superman ‘78, Lex first learns that Superman can’t see through lead when he’s reading the article Lois wrote about her night with Superman. Now that’s admittedly shaky because why would Superman ever say that out loud, but it works because it’s quick and tiny. The seed is planted and pays off when Lex lures him down to his abandoned subway mansion. Lex says he has a bomb causing Superman to go down there when in fact he has kryptonite trapped in a lead safe.

I guess in this one it can be explained that Lex knows because he somehow has files on everyone and it’s bound to come up somewhere on Superman’s file. I guess.

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Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:48 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Yeah, it would have at least been nice to know Luthor knew. I think it would have made more sense introducing Luthor to have this knowledge, while keeping hidden however that the chair was made of lead actually.
I remember when I watching BvS in the cinema, the Capitol explosion really caught me by surprise and I enjoyed that scene.

But I did find it EXTREMELY DUMB Luthor let his hot assistant die in there. I guess we have to get Luthor is so evil, but I found it a dumb move nonetheless, because why couldn't she just not have been there.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:58 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
This feels like nitpicking. Lead shielding is used in x-rays at hospitals. So the film does not necessarily need to mention that Luthor knows Superman cannot see through lead. He probably does not even know. It is just an educated guess. I do not believe he would have a file on Superman where it says he cannot see through lead. I think it is stranger to believe that than to believe that he just winged it with the lead and got lucky.


Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:59 am
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
So very many things wrong but this Ultimate Edition still entertains. The flaws still exist but its more digestible now that you know what's coming. Actors in here are better than the script.


Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:38 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
This movie is gonna age really well. (The UE)


Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:00 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
This movie is glorious, the Snyderverse is fucking awesome and I’m glad many people have realized it through the years by repeat viewings, and yes, the Ultimate Edition is the definitive and only version that should have existed.

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Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:01 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
A post from Brian after so long. Hope you're doing well and staying safe :thumbsup:


Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:51 pm
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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
Jack Sparrow wrote:
A post from Brian after so long. Hope you're doing well and staying safe :thumbsup:

Thank you Jack!

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Post Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
This ended up aging like wine, especially the Director's Cut (really the only version anyone should watch). Far more ambitious, entertaining and re-watchable than any of the Marvel prolefeed. Deserved better at the time.

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