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Excel
Superfreak
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:54 am Posts: 21876 Location: Places
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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
This is a tremendous disappointment anyway you slice. No way on Earth anyone would have guessed this was where it would open 4 years ago or even 2 years ago. Its opening weekend may not even get to half the current opening weekend record. How could this have been averted? Should they make a 10th film? What went wrong?
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Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:29 pm |
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Dil
Forum General
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:48 pm Posts: 8942 Location: Houston, Texas
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
Carrie dying definitely had a big impact, because you can tell by the end of TLJ that she was definitely supposed to have a bigger role in Episode 9. It's unfortunate for sure but its so obvious that they didn't have a plan for this new trilogy from the beginning, and that alone is enough to be the downfall of any franchise I mean just look at what happend to Universal with that poor excuse of a Monsters Universe that petty much died after the garbage fire that was The Mummy.
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Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:39 pm |
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DP07
Homo Dperious
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:26 am Posts: 14460 Location: Everywhere
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
The opening shouldn’t have been surprising since they announced Dec 20. That it won’t get a 3.5 multiplier is disappointing.
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Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:52 pm |
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Barrabás
llegó a la casa vía marítima
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:53 pm Posts: 6129 Location: la gran casa de la esquina
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
Deadline says it's on track for a $193m OW...I don't think that's that bad? The three main old cast members who are the main reason for Force Awakens being so massive and setting the expectations so high are gone/dead/force ghost'd so a $193m OW relying on Kylo Ren and Rey is kind of impressive.
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Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:19 pm |
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Jiffy
Forum General
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:27 pm Posts: 6145 Location: New York
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
Barrabás wrote: Deadline says it's on track for a $193m OW...I don't think that's that bad? The three main old cast members who are the main reason for Force Awakens being so massive and setting the expectations so high are gone/dead/force ghost'd so a $193m OW relying on Kylo Ren and Rey is kind of impressive. $193m wouldn't be too bad, but it's probably closer to $180m and that is eh.
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Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:28 pm |
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Excel
Superfreak
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:54 am Posts: 21876 Location: Places
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
I mean this is not even close to the others with inflation. I think the total lack of OT actors in the marketing killed this more than anything else.
_________________Ari Emmanuel wrote: I'd rather marry lindsay Lohan than represent Mel Gibson.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:13 am |
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Keyser Söze
Quality is a great business plan
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:21 pm Posts: 6155
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
I wonder what they will do for next trilogy. its coming too soon after this one and I feel Disney is dropping the ball big time by bombarding with SW movies thinking this would be another Marvel. but they are different beasts. ideally they should wait another 5-6 years for another trilogy.
On this I agree lack of OT actors playing big roles had a huge impact plus JJ rushed this in. Considering he came in late, they should have delayed this by another year to flesh out the finale.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:23 am |
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Flava'd vs The World
The Kramer
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:36 am Posts: 23695 Location: Classified
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
The move is for Rian Johnson to come back in a few years, but instead of a trilogy just play it by ear.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:35 am |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 22646 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
Disney made SW feel 'unspecial' by blowing their load with 5 films in 4 years. We all knew this would happen from day one. Iger even admitted it.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:26 am |
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neo_wolf
Extraordinary
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:19 pm Posts: 10906
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
I dont think Rian Johnson will be able to make that next trilogy, i bet that falls through after what happened. The franchise needs a break from movies, like 5-6 years.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:47 am |
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Excel
Superfreak
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:54 am Posts: 21876 Location: Places
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
MadGez wrote: Disney made SW feel 'unspecial' by blowing their load with 5 films in 4 years. We all knew this would happen from day one. Iger even admitted it. This one cannot be understated either. People may like The Mandalorian but it definitely satisfied some folks Star Wars cravings. Throw in SOLO and Rogue One & the flair of SW on the big screen was definitely affected
_________________Ari Emmanuel wrote: I'd rather marry lindsay Lohan than represent Mel Gibson.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:13 pm |
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Rev
Romosexual!
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:06 am Posts: 32083 Location: the last free city
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
WWR? Disney
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:25 pm |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 37886
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
- TLJ - Spin-offs - Star Wars has a specific thing that makes it Star Wars in terms of staginess, over seriousness, etc. Don’t think they nailed it - Disney has struggled with adventure/fantasy type of movies since Pirates with flops like John Carter, Lone Ranger, etc. It is hard to make light adventure tone movies while still making it feel real.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:29 pm |
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Dil
Forum General
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:48 pm Posts: 8942 Location: Houston, Texas
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
Yeah at this point they should just put this franchise on ice for the next 5 to 6 years and let the theatrical stuff keep steaming through Disney+. With how popular The Mandalorian already is and with Marvel soon joining the game that service is going to really blow up over the next couple years and its nothing but good exposure if they can keep cranking out quality SW shows. They really need to try and rebuild this brand with as much goodwill as they can get.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:11 pm |
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lilmac
Veteran
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 12:07 am Posts: 3127
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
#1 reason = Apathy (divisive movies in the recent past have removed the luster off of Star Wars) Mixed critic reviews Mixed fan reviews
_________________ I believe in God as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
I was blind, but now I see.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:28 pm |
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LegendofJosh
Newbie
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:00 pm Posts: 7
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
I did not like any of these sequel films except Rogue One (and even that had problems) so I'll state what I think went wrong for me.
At its core, the Sequels just did not have a well thought out story. Each film was simply a soft retread of the original films but with none of the charm.
I think the biggest reason for this is they did not utilize the archetypes each character embodied. For example, the original film worked so well because everyone had a major role and a specific set of skills that added to the story.
We had a Knight-wizard, a Knight apprentice/hero, two servants, a smuggler, a muscleman, the princess, and the dark lord.
After the young hero discovers two servants and their hidden message, he embarks alongside the Knight-wizard on a quest to save the Princess. Along the way, they hire a smuggler and muscleman to get them to the Princess's realm. Of course, they end up making their way into the enemy fortress instead and using their different skills/motivations, rescue the Princess.
In the end, the young hero uses what his master taught him and defeats the Dark Lord's army in battle.
With the Force Awakens, however, we don't get this despite the plot mirroring A New Hope. Instead, it's Rey simply doing everything. She gets captured, she teaches herself the Force, she defeats the bad guy in a duel, she rescues herself, she fixes the ship's problems, she flies like an expert, she shoots well, etc. The only thing she doesn't do is blow up Starkiller Base but seeing her flying skills, she could have done that too if she wanted to.
That's a major problem since it negates everyone else's role in the film. Essentially, nobody gets to add to the story.
Because let's look at what major roles we had in TFA: Scavenger/survivalist Rey, Stormtrooper Finn, War hero pilot Poe, Muscleman Chewy, Smuggler/General Han, Messenger BB-8, Dark Prince Kylo.
If this were the OT, you would have Poe piloting (since where did he go anyway?), Finn the trooper teaching Rey to shoot, and a scavenging Rey rescuing them in the first place (which would also be the action which triggers her to leave the planet and begin her journey).
Poe can get them to Han in an organic way rather than Han randomly finding them. Han can take them to his sources as part of the mission. The source/Maz can, then, advance the plot and world build by explaining the state of the galaxy to Rey and Finn. Poe stands guard alongside Han and they discuss the mission and Luke.
So on and so forth.
This helps to actively define each character which would benefit the overall trilogy. They would need to stay together to survive. Maybe all three of them even have the Force awakening inside of them and therefore, need to visit Luke to become the next generation of Jedi (especially given that Lucas's core theme he wanted the Sequels to be about was the notion of passing on what you learned - something these Sequels fail at). Whatever the idea, so long as their archetypal skills were put to the test, it would have created a better fantasy adventure story.
Essentially, for TROS's failure, it just did not have a congruent story and did not conclude with developing said story or characters completely. Why would audiences want to invest in that?
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:51 pm |
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publicenemy#1
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:25 am Posts: 18842 Location: San Diego
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
How they handled the old cast is definitely a culprit. I love TLJ but they shouldn't have killed Luke.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:29 pm |
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redfirebird2008
Cream of the Crop
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 4:13 am Posts: 2483
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
If they wanted maximum hype for Episode 9, don’t kill Han and especially Luke in previous episodes. Luke vs Palpatine would’ve led to a $230+ million opening. Instead we got Rey vs Palpatine. Disney should not be shocked by the lower box office. People don’t care about the new characters. For box office, they would have been better off with TLJ revealing Rey as Luke’s daughter, Rey dies, and Episode 9 would be Luke’s revenge.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:19 pm |
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lilmac
Veteran
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 12:07 am Posts: 3127
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
Kathleen Kennedy’s job is to wrangle talent and put films together. Every single film has seen decisions made and overturned, or the output made for a divided fanbase. Stunning incompetence given her track record. Mind you, I liked and even loved all the final product but just look at this, will you:
TFA - Hired Arndt, fired Arndt Rogue One - Major revisions and reshoots in post production Unknown spinoff - hired Josh Trank, fired Josh Trank Solo - Hired Lord and Miller. Either they went off the sanctioned creative path and went wrong or she didn’t have visibility beforehand on their approach TLJ - went smoothly but the fan reaction was divisive TROS - so far it looks like this will be divisive as well and the lowest grossing (breaking the trilogy pattern streak). Before that, Colin Trevorrow was hired, then fired. Benioff and Weis trilogy - Hired and unofficially fired.
I am far from comparing myself to Iger (the thought of that makes me chuckle) but in the real world I am a manager of managers. The quality I want to see, besides them treating their people well, is do they exercise good judgement. Despite me for the most part, enjoying the end result of the Disney SW films, I think a change at the top (i.e. KK) is now warranted given the haphazard manner in way the franchise has been ostensibly run.
_________________ I believe in God as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
I was blind, but now I see.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:39 pm |
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Excel
Superfreak
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:54 am Posts: 21876 Location: Places
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
Not sure who is more responsible - KK or Disney senior leadership, but these guys legit. pulled a DC circa 2016-2017 and meddled far too heavily in this whole process. They needed to get some senior artistic leadership on the high end ala Kevin Feige for Marvel or even on a smaller scale a Nolan/TDK or Peter Jackson/LOTR type. They needed the major arcs and story more planned out.
_________________Ari Emmanuel wrote: I'd rather marry lindsay Lohan than represent Mel Gibson.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:47 pm |
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Excel
Superfreak
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:54 am Posts: 21876 Location: Places
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
redfirebird2008 wrote: If they wanted maximum hype for Episode 9, don’t kill Han and especially Luke in previous episodes. Luke vs Palpatine would’ve led to a $230+ million opening. Instead we got Rey vs Palpatine. Disney should not be shocked by the lower box office. People don’t care about the new characters. For box office, they would have been better off with TLJ revealing Rey as Luke’s daughter, Rey dies, and Episode 9 would be Luke’s revenge. Eh there is no way they were going to kill Rey. As has been suggested elsewhere, given what happened in real life and where they wanted to take Kylo Ren, they should have just adjusted it so Leia was murdered by another Sith villain who would grow to become the major villain in the 3rd when Kylo turns to the light in addition the cause for Luke coming out of retirement to kick some ass.
_________________Ari Emmanuel wrote: I'd rather marry lindsay Lohan than represent Mel Gibson.
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Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:49 pm |
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Barrabás
llegó a la casa vía marítima
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:53 pm Posts: 6129 Location: la gran casa de la esquina
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
Kathleen should’ve been fired the day she put together an intentionally women-only writers room to map out the stories.
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:22 am |
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lilmac
Veteran
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 12:07 am Posts: 3127
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
I think Kathleen let the men (JJ, Rian, Kasdan, Trevorrow, Connelly, Terrio, Story Group) run amock without instilling leadership and a firm hand.
_________________ I believe in God as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
I was blind, but now I see.
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:03 am |
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mark66
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:41 pm Posts: 13041 Location: Augsburg (2,038 years young)
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
I'm sensing that Kathleen Kennedy will ask Steven Spielberg to do the next SW movie...
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:01 am |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 37886
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - What Went Wrong?
Giving it to Jon Favreau seems like the natural move after the Mandalorian
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Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:00 am |
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