What went wrong?????
Spoiler: show
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| Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) http://worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=83582 |
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| Author: | Excel [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
JL: What went wrong? 1. Quality of recent DC movies, WW aside. BVS and SS were hated despite SS decent legs. 2. Release date not prime for mega openings as of late. Fantastic Beasts and each Mockingjay entry came in at the bottom of expectations. This date may have simply evolved and is not ripe for big openers like it used to be. Safe to say JL in summer likely opens a lot higher. 3. Puzzling marketing. Not showing Superman was an obviously stupid mistake. The overall "red cloud" cartoony look of the film looked lame and 'made for TV' 4. Less than positive reviews. There was likely an avalanche of would be moviegoers awaiting reviews before making their mind. |
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| Author: | Skyblade [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Batman v Superman (and also Wonder Woman being there) robbed the movie of any real "Meeting for the first time" factor. While Wonder Woman was a big hit, it only came out six months ago. Infact, between that and the aforementioned appearance in BvS , Gal',s WW has appeared three times in less than three years. That's overkill, no mater how much you may like her. Even Marvel shows more restraint with Iron Man. Thor sucked a looooot of energy out of the room. With Last Jedi a month away, people's wallets have to give. For that matter, there's been five superhero movies before this year, all successful, all better received. I don't want to say "fatigued", but it's like, if you're stuffed, and someone offers you a slice of Domino's... Also, this goes back to marketing, but for all people know, there was no villain. You can kind of get away with that if you characters are antiheroes or something, but like, there has to be some threat that's uniting all our Heroes for something? |
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| Author: | Rev [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
What went wrong????? Spoiler: show |
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| Author: | Jack Sparrow [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
EVERYTHING. WB is definitely to blame here for sure. |
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| Author: | Shack [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
This played like Batman vs Superman 2 which obviously had brutal WOM |
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| Author: | Thatguy [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Yup, everything. One of the most troubled film productions I have seen in modern film history. Crazy amounts of studio interference, panic, and desperation. A personal tragedy struck the original director in the middle of production, and another director was brought in. Major reshoots and script changes occurred at the last minute. The release date was not moved, and therefore many technical aspects of the film were rushed, done shoddily, or left incomplete. |
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| Author: | Jmart [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Snyder left in May. That wasn’t the middle of production. |
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| Author: | Jmart [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
1a. Warner Brothers 1b. Warner Brothers greed 1c. Warner Brothers hiring Zack Snyder 1d. Zack Snyder |
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| Author: | Thatguy [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Jmart wrote: Snyder left in May. That wasn’t the middle of production. Semantics. Snyder's daughter died in March, and the production was given a 2 week break. Even after the break, Snyder wasn't really "there" mentally, and Joss Whedon was brought in sometime in April. It was only publicly announced in May. Major reshoots commenced, and production from what I heard stretched into early September. Post-production went on from September all the way to the very last moments before release this weekend. |
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| Author: | MovieDude [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Skyblade and Shack have the right of it, and I would highlight the confused and muddled marketing. This never, ever looked very good. |
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| Author: | Jack Sparrow [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Jmart wrote: 1a. Warner Brothers 1b. Warner Brothers greed 1c. Warner Brothers hiring Zack Snyder 1d. Zack Snyder +1 |
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| Author: | Jmart [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Thatguy wrote: Jmart wrote: Snyder left in May. That wasn’t the middle of production. Semantics. Except production started in April 2016. It was a year into production by the time he left. If Snyder hadn’t fucked up royally (or actually listened to the criticisms of BvS), they wouldn’t have needed the major reshoots. It boggles my mind why Warners even brought him back after BvS. |
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| Author: | Thatguy [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Jmart wrote: Except production started in April 2016. It was a year into production by the time he left. If Snyder hadn’t fucked up royally (or actually listened to the criticisms of BvS), they wouldn’t have needed the major reshoots. It boggles my mind why Warners even brought him back after BvS. I don't feel like getting into this. Read related posts about this on other threads. BvS wasn't even what Snyder wanted to make. Snyder wanted to make MOS 2. BvS was forced on Snyder by WB. The reshoots on JL away from Snyder's vision were useless, as we can see so far from audience and critical reception. |
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| Author: | Jack Sparrow [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
So are you saying that he made BvS entirely based on WB? It wasn't Snyder's movie at all? That's a bit far fetched. MoS wasn't well received so most likely MoS2 would have ended the same? Plus even then BvS was made and he was told to continue the story with JL. A person cannot be so rigid in (any?) business that his with some changes in his vision everything that comes out will be shit. Again I am not saying WB is not to blame here but to take the blame away from Snyder entirely is not agreeable as well. |
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| Author: | Jmart [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Thatguy wrote: Jmart wrote: Except production started in April 2016. It was a year into production by the time he left. If Snyder hadn’t fucked up royally (or actually listened to the criticisms of BvS), they wouldn’t have needed the major reshoots. It boggles my mind why Warners even brought him back after BvS. I don't feel like getting into this. Read related posts about this on other threads. BvS wasn't even what Snyder wanted to make. Snyder wanted to make MOS 2. BvS was forced on Snyder by WB. The reshoots on JL away from Snyder's vision were useless, as we can see so far from audience and critical reception. Yeah...forced. It wouldn’t have been forced on him if Snyder’s vision of Man of Steel wasn’t met with mixed reception. It was generally well received like you’ve said. If it were a Marvel film it’d be the worst recieved by critics, and only Iron Man 2 has a lower audience score on RT. And, it took in about $50m-$100m of what Warners was expecting. That’s why Batman was forced on him. He also could’ve left at any point. If he had a problem, he probably wouldn’t have directed BvS, contributed to the script, or oversaw the editing. Snyder is clearly the victim here. 
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| Author: | DP07 [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Justice was served. |
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| Author: | DP07 [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Rev wrote: 
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| Author: | Algren [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
It never stood a chance. Problems stem from it being a premature team-up movie to BvS already using the team-up card to Warner Bros. incompetence to Zack Snyder not being the right man for the job. |
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| Author: | DP07 [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
BvS shared the momentum and let it get stolen. |
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| Author: | Rev [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Deleted scenes https://youtu.be/MMiblktdQts |
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| Author: | _axiom [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Thatguy wrote: Jmart wrote: Except production started in April 2016. It was a year into production by the time he left. If Snyder hadn’t fucked up royally (or actually listened to the criticisms of BvS), they wouldn’t have needed the major reshoots. It boggles my mind why Warners even brought him back after BvS. I don't feel like getting into this. Read related posts about this on other threads. BvS wasn't even what Snyder wanted to make. Snyder wanted to make MOS 2. BvS was forced on Snyder by WB. The reshoots on JL away from Snyder's vision were useless, as we can see so far from audience and critical reception. So if they made him do it, why couldn't he just quit? Instead he stayed on to do what? What they told him to do? I don't know which version of Snyder I like less - the one you're trying to portrait here or the hack director I always thought he was. It's admirable you're trying to blame Whedon because he took over, but even when Whedon utterly fails there's still some originality and interesting stuff in what he does (Dollhouse for example). So if Whedon taking on with extensive reshoots and reworking couldn't save this one, I'm prone to believe that JL was a giant turd to start with. I understand WB panicking. Wouldn't you? You have an easy $1b grosser on name alone and look where it's at now. It will be lucky to get $750m WW at this rate. Truth is even though he's viewed as a visual director, none of those exist because of his vision. 300 and Watchmen existed on paper. It doesn't take much talent to do exact frame to frame movie version of existing comic books. From that point on he just borrowed the style for Sucker Punch and this DCEU. Even if they made him do it, JL still feels very much Snyder with its shitty over the top nearly cartoony and obviously fake effects. |
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| Author: | _axiom [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
And also let's remember WB is the studio that gave Nolan pretty much free hands with Batman and everything he did since. They also didn't micromanage Harry Potter series (let's all remember they gave away the third movie of arguably the biggest franchise back then into the hands of Alfonso Cuaron - if that's not a huge leap of faith from a big studio I don't know what is). If they're trying to do damage control with DCEU, I can understand that. The whole thing started out bad. But I don't think they went the good route. They desperately tried to get into the same train Marvel is riding. If they decided to go with a blank slate and not build it off MOS, we would probably be having completely different conversation right now. The truth is we will never know who is to blame for this. It's probably at least a little on everyone involved, but Snyder is the only constant thing repeating here. And he has been a repeat offender with his previous movies. So... |
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| Author: | stuffp [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
I don't think Snyder is a great director at all, but he's been fairly good before BvS, and now with Justice League, the film's been so hacked by parties outside of him, you could hardly call it his film. I think Thatguy's got the situation pretty straight. |
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| Author: | stuffp [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
WWW, the pretty awful poster didn't help: Spoiler: show |
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| Author: | Corpse [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Justice League: WWW? (Everything? Pretty much yes) |
Everything sums it up. And it's probably been mentioned already, but if not, then: The withholding of the reviews, and promoting their release, was a big mistake. If they had been positive it would have been a nice surprise and possibly have generate some needed interest, but it had the exact opposite effect and very likely meant the difference in a $100 million debut or not. Who wants to wait days in anticipation for bad reviews? It's just going to turn moviegoers away even more. This is a silly strategy that hopefully doesn't become the norm moving forward. |
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