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 Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD 
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
tree and a half wrote:
After debuting much higher on IMDb's Top 250 list, Dunkirk has plummeted to #61 and is falling fast. I wouldn't be surprised to see it out of the top 150 when the DVD is released. Other than the pre-cult Insomnia, this is a long overdue slap in the face for Nolan from his fans. Hopefully he will take it as a wake-up call and start making good movies again.

- 4. The Dark Knight
- 14. Inception
- 32. Interstellar
- 47. The Prestige
- 48. Memento
↓ 61. Dunkirk
- 64. The Dark Knight Rises
- 115. Batman Begins


Agreed. Also not that I pay much attention to IMDB user ratings these days, but The Dark Knight Rises and Batman Begins are much better films than Dunkirk IMO. I hope Dunkirk's user score settles somewhere below Batman Begins.

Nolan did recently mention that he will be "returning to dialogue in the future" so hopefully his next film will be a return to his proper form.

Also I feel he's at his best when he is doing an original fiction screenplay, and is aided by his brother Jonathan. Jonathan helps with bits of advice on every Nolan film, but as I understand it, Jonathan played virtually no role in Dunkirk's script. It seems like this was strictly a personal pet project for Chris Nolan. Some of my favourite Nolan films, as well as his most popular/audience acclaimed films have all had Jonathan help with the script and get a screenplay co-credit. That includes exceptions like Inception where he was not credited, but nonetheless he helped with the screenplay.

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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Bradley really cares about IMDB/Rotten Tomatoes/MetaCritic scores. Weird for someone to care so much yet have such an apparent affliction to "groupthink".


Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:14 pm
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Thatguy wrote:
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I find it funny how it is labelled pretension because there is no handsome McConaughey or dashing DiCaprio to hold your hand and make you feel comfortable through the intense battle scenes.


I found a ton of pretentiousness in Kenneth Branagh's portrayal as Commander Bolton. Just the way he acted and portrayed the character...for me it gave off a lot of pretentiousness, and several times I noticed very smug looks on his face, which took me out of the film every time I saw those looks on his face.


So basically, "He's an asshole. I don't like his face. His asshole face."

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Also Nolan made it very clear this was not a war film, but a survival film. However I found it pretentious on the part of Nolan to be so dedicated to that PG-13 rating, yet so clearly coining it as a survival film. The lack of realistic blood and gore, given the environment of the film and nature of the film's events, for me was fairly detracting and took me out of the immersion of the film a fair bit. Literally the only thing that kept me immersed was the IMAX footage, given I was lucky enough to watch it in 70mm IMAX. Had Nolan gone for a hard-R rating, and had realistic blood and gore, I think would have tremendously added to the overall impact of the film as well as the realism and intensity of the survival story.


You want the blood and gore of a typical combat war film even though Nolan specifically stated he wasn't making a typical war film but rather a survival film?

The movie is already overwhelming as it is. If there was ever a war movie that didn't need gore, this was it, since the movie was about survival and isn't really a war movie. Speaking of which, there isn't a ton of hand-to-hand combat, people getting shot/blowing up, etc., to begin with. Where would there be gore and why does it have to be there? The opening? Works perfectly as it is. On the beach where the bombs go off side by side? The soldiers completely evaporating works. Did we need a shot of Georgie's skull?

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Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:00 pm
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
I've been perfectly fine with Kenneth Branagh's performances in other films. It was specifically in this film, the body language he had, and his specific performance that I didn't like. So yes, his smug face specifically in this film really grated me. He wasn't the director though, Nolan was.

A survival film shot in the context of a war environment... is still a survival film in the context of a war environment. Also Nolan has specifically pointed out that he tried to be historically accurate in many of the details. So given the priority of historical accuracy as well, for me, the lack of gore and full realism detracted somewhat from the film. No there wasn't a huge need for gore. The scenes though that did require gore and blood for 100% full realism didn't have it, because of Nolan's dedication for the PG-13 rating. Some of the bodies on stretchers seemed to have a lack of blood and visual injuries. Also yes, the bombs going off on the beaches should have produced flying body parts and not simply evaporated soldiers. Some of the action scenes in the water should have had more visible blood in the water. Also the bombing scenes with the soldiers on the mole, there should have been more realistic blood and gore. Blood and gore at 70mm IMAX resolution would have upped the intensity of the film even more. It truly would have made you feel what it was truly like for those young soldiers at Dunkirk.

It doesn't matter if this wasn't a war film. This was a historically accurate survival film, directly based on a real life event that occurred in World War 2. Mute the volume, and pop in Saving Private Ryan for a few minutes. Then compare to the action footage in Dunkirk. The difference is striking in terms of actual realism in a war setting (relating to gore and the psychological devastation of seeing that go on around you). In reality, that is not what the action around the evacuation at Dunkirk would have truly looked like and felt like psychologically, due to the lack of full gore and blood.

Nolan has done a wonderful job with most of his films. I've had no issues with the lack of blood or gore in his previous films, as many of his films have had a 'heightened reality'. If this was not a historically accurate film, if it was a film with a heightened reality, then I would have had zero problems with the lack of gore.

However this was a different film, a historical film full of accurate details that (strictly speaking) accurately portrayed the survival aspect of the Dunkirk evacuation. However it would have been more accurate had Nolan gone all the way into an R rating with fully realistic blood and gore. If historical accuracy and paying respect to the Allied soldiers at Dunkirk was the goal of Nolan here, then he should have gone for an R rating, reduced worldwide revenues be damned. However, if the goal was simply more of a pet project due to a personal love of that historical moment at Dunkirk for Nolan, and to increase worldwide recognition of what happened at Dunkirk... well then mission accomplished I guess.

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Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:55 am
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Nolan is stuck with making PG-13 films, because the majority of his fanbase come onboard when they're under 18. Those over 18 watched their first Nolan film as kids and now can't admit to themselves that their adulation was immature, so they double down on the Nolan bandwagon. I feel sorry for Nolan because he is trapped by his own box office success with the tweenage demographic. :(


Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:14 am
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
tree and a half wrote:
Nolan is stuck with making PG-13 films, because the majority of his fanbase come onboard when they're under 18. Those over 18 watched their first Nolan film as kids and now can't admit to themselves that their adulation was immature, so they double down on the Nolan bandwagon. I feel sorry for Nolan because he is trapped by his own box office success with the tweenage demographic. :(


For his last few films, the demographics have been steadily getting older though. His last major film that had massive tween appeal was Inception. The Dark Knight Rises, Interstellar, and Dunkirk all gradually appealed to more older audiences.

I know he's stuck, because he's a top director. The irony is, he has so much creative freedom and leeway, he could easily go to an R rating if he really wanted to, and there would be nothing that WB would say.

For me the rating was only an issue in Dunkirk anyways. His other films have had rated R content thematically, and the heightened reality for me worked really well that I didn't need the blood and gore in his other films.

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Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:35 am
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
...and it would still make $150m in the US.


Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:39 am
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
It's kind of insane how closely this has followed MI5 since its first week. It does a little bit worse on weekend but does a little bit better on dailies so they end up close.

On its current trajectory, it seems like it will end up with around a 192m finish. However....I very much think this will get a re-release (in 70mm and maybe IMAX) at some point for award season. So I'm not counting out 200m for it yet.

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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Yeah I don't think it will do huge in expansion. I believe it will be released in home media by awards season, it just doesn't make sense financially to keep it in theaters for so long.

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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
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Last edited by tree and a half on Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Finally saw it. While I did enjoy it, there is clearly a bigger masterpiece here that needed 45 minutes more of a time and $75m worth of budget. The scale with regards to the # of soldiers and boats feels tiny. We see maybe a dozen civilian boats and then are told "all 300,000 evacuated".

The lack of nazi's or build up clearly hurts the movie. There's no sense of urgency whatsoever.

Solid movie but feels like Nolan was barely trying here when compared to TDK films, Inception, or even Lessthanstellar.

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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
tree and a half wrote:
tree and a half wrote:
After debuting much higher on IMDb's Top 250 list, Dunkirk has plummeted to #61 and is falling fast. I wouldn't be surprised to see it out of the top 150 when the DVD is released. Other than the pre-cult Insomnia, this is a long overdue slap in the face for Nolan from his fans. Hopefully he will take it as a wake-up call and start making good movies again.

- 4. The Dark Knight
- 14. Inception
- 32. Interstellar
- 47. The Prestige
- 48. Memento
↓ 61. Dunkirk
- 64. The Dark Knight Rises
- 115. Batman Begins

Now, nine days later, Dunkirk has dropped six spots to #67.

At this rate (↓6 spots / 9 days ⋍ 244 days), Dunkirk will be out of IMDb's Top 250 on April 21, 2018.


Thought you disliked the fanboys on IMDB?


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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
redfirebird2008 wrote:
Thought you disliked the fanboys on IMDB?

The point is that with Dunkirk, even the fanboys are abandoning ship.


Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:16 am
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
tree and a half wrote:
redfirebird2008 wrote:
Thought you disliked the fanboys on IMDB?

The point is that with Dunkirk, even the fanboys are abandoning ship.


General audience isn't. Pretty good legs at the box office.


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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Dunkirk is overrated and at times a bore. It's quite slow. Has it's moments. Hopefully, Nolan doesn't something more interesting and innovative next time around.

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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
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Last edited by tree and a half on Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:27 pm
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
I would argue that given how empty the marketplace was in August, its legs are quite meh. It should have done 4.0+ easily with this competition. Once the premiere theaters got taken away/reduced, its legs were much worse.

In fact, I would go as far to say this film had the least impressive legs of any Nolan film since Insomnia. It's end total is only respectable cause it opened big.

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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Magnus wrote:
I would argue that given how empty the marketplace was in August, its legs are quite meh. It should have done 4.0+ easily with this competition. Once the premiere theaters got taken away/reduced, its legs were much worse.

In fact, I would go as far to say this film had the least impressive legs of any Nolan film since Insomnia. It's end total is only respectable cause it opened big.


This and Girls Trip have had confusingly weak legs. Both two two of the last big openers of the season, and both are the type of films with reputations for strong legs, and yet neither film has had a sub-35% drop. No clue what happened there. Still great totals for both, but it seemed like it should have been more for both.


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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Looks like Labor Day 4-day will be around $5.2 million. Should finish between $185-187m domestic. Pretty damn good result given the subject matter.


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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Same total as Interstellar. It seems $180-$190m is the ceiling for Nolan's "popcorn entertainment for intellectuals" type films. Inception managed to break out thanks to its concept.

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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - NOLAN IS GOD
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Barrabás wrote:
Same total as Interstellar. It seems $180-$190m is the ceiling for Nolan's "popcorn entertainment for intellectuals" type films. Inception managed to break out thanks to its concept.

...and Leonardo DiCaprio.


Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:04 am
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
This was some tough subject matter for the film to have incredible legs. Likewise, Interstellar was a hard sci-fi film which given the subject matter also made it really hard to have incredible legs. Given the subject matter of these last 2 films, the legs have still been great.

Now I will also say after having finally watched it a second time, what a difference a second viewing made for me. My full review is now in the review forum.

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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
more I think about it, the more I realize just how bad Dunkirk's legs were. It held on to the premium format for a while, had a completely empty box-office for weeks, and appealed to a older demo. A sub-3.75 multiplier, even after a 50m OW, is pathetic given the conditions.

Justice League ruined this films potential because this would have been perfectly slotted in mid-November to get a massive holiday/award season boost in December/January that would carry its legs well over 4.0+.

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Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:21 pm
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Post Re: Dunkirk 225m+ Club - THE DREAM IS DEAD
Magnus wrote:
more I think about it, the more I realize just how bad Dunkirk's legs were. It held on to the premium format for a while, had a completely empty box-office for weeks, and appealed to a older demo. A sub-3.75 multiplier, even after a 50m OW, is pathetic given the conditions.

Justice League ruined this films potential because this would have been perfectly slotted in mid-November to get a massive holiday/award season boost in December/January that would carry its legs well over 4.0+.


I must respectfully disagree. Much of the general audience finds historical war films boring. Statistically, this is especially true for the under 25/35 audience. Anecdotally, both times I saw Dunkirk, there were almost zero young people at my shows. Most of the audience was middle aged people, with quite a few seniors as well. In fact, I've previously never seen so many seniors at a Nolan film before. Even as a Nolan fan, personally Dunkirk's subject matter is by far the most boring to me out of his entire filmography. Not only that, Dunkirk is a war film without balls out action, and focused almost exclusively on British soldiers, further narrowing its broad audience appeal.

Even Interstellar's subject matter was much more interesting personally. With that said, Interstellar was released in that prime November slot for long legs, had those strong emotional hooks in the 3rd act, had McConaughey as a lead, yet 'only' managed a 3.95x multiplier.

Dunkirk is going to manage around a 3.7-3.75x or so multiplier.

I contend this is still really good. Nolan continues his famous streak. In his entire filmography, all of his films except The Dark Knight Rises have managed a multiplier of *at least* 3x.

Nolan aka 'Mr. Multiplier' continues his streak. We all know The Dark Knight Rises had a freak incident affect its run, so the box office run of Rises will always have an asterisk. If that freak incident had never occurred, Rises would have almost guaranteed achieved at least a 3x multiplier.

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