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 Minneapolis Burning 
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Devil's Advocate
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
There should really be 3 parties next election when AOC is eligible to lead the socialist party. It’s pretty crazy that polls show the majority of Democrat voters support sending in the troops, an idea so alienating to the progressives that the NYT had a campus culture war style meltdown over it.

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Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:49 am
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Indiana Jones IV

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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Barrabás wrote:
Prediction: America as we have known it is going to cease to exist by 2021. Either a break up into multiple states, total anarchy, or the Democrat/Republican democratic system will be replaced by something else.

Slower burn than that, I think, despite the conflagration currently evident.

This'll sound crazy, but check the dates for Uranus' full cycle from the year of U.S. inception:

1776
1860
1944
2028

Uranus rules revolutionary change, upheaval, transformation, violent overthrow, the discovery of the new, etc. All the previous dates coincide with pretty significant (the MOST significant, really) 3 periods of United States cultural history. We're seeing the beginning of the fourth.

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Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:22 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Steve wrote:
And theoretically you "could" use any of the other 'splaining'-terms you proffered. The difference is in the CLEAR direction of power flow. White skin unquestionably confers far greater power, influence, benefit-of-the-doubt, weight, and privilege than black/brown skin. Same as being a cis-man, which is why "man-splaining" is a thing. Same as why you can definitely be prejudiced and discriminatory against white people, but you can't be racist towards white people. It's just not a thing, it's going against the deeply ingrained flow of power for the centuries on centuries on centuries that have informed our behavior, our social constructs, our consciousnesses.


"Racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

So, I'm curious, why can't someone be racist against white people? Power isn't a necessary component of racism, I think you mostly just need ignorance & hate, which is certainly not exclusive to one color of people.

Also, the way we see the world absolutely has something to do with how we interpret these events. By that I mean I view the act of having a child to be an *extremely* selfish choice so when we get to this point of how I, a white person, must somehow atone for things I both had no authority over or say in that's where you lose me a bit. I was dragged into this world kicking and screaming, just like everyone else, and was dealt a hand. Am I saying being white is without privileges in America? Of course not. Being straight and Christian also come with quite a bit of privilege, so if we're going down this road of "well, you were better off than me because X" then aren't there plenty of others to include? Being white is not the be-all-end-all of existence, as this gay atheist Jew/Yugoslavian can tell you, and I find the suggestion that I need to show penance for existing as I am simply idiotic. We're all in this boat together thanks to our selfish parents, I didn't do anything :thumbsup:

I mean, whenever I'm filling out that ballot (for ALL kinds of elections, not just the Presidential one) the easiest method of selection if I haven't heard of the candidates is to pick the name that sounds *least* like a white guy and so far I've yet to vote Republican since as a party they've been a bit too gleefully evil in my lifetime to do so. If one were to judge simply by my voting record since turning 18 you might guess I'm a female minority, which I'd argue is infinitely more helpful to this whole human rights campaign than anyone who takes to the streets to call for change then doesn't vote--which is, unfortunately, a lot of people.

I might have a differing viewpoint but I actually vote in people who would further these progressive causes so when I keep seeing all this "white people are..." and "white people do..." kind of stuff I am a little lost as to how that's not the same as just "black people are..." or "black people do..." only with a spin on it :mer:


Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:30 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Steve wrote:
Same as why you can definitely be prejudiced and discriminatory against white people, but you can't be racist towards white people. It's just not a thing, it's going against the deeply ingrained flow of power for the centuries on centuries on centuries that have informed our behavior, our social constructs, our consciousnesses.

I see racism as judging people by their skin colour. Doesn’t matter it’s black judging white or white judging black.

Stuff like this is not how you end racism:


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Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:24 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
There is certainly a three way split in our political body:

Progressive Reformist
Liberal Conservative
Libertarian Fundamentalist

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Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:55 pm
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The Kramer
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
I'm all for a four party system: Socialist Progressives, Liberals, Conservatives and MAGA Nationalists. Three party system will always be unfair since it almost automatically gives the election to the candidate least like the other two.


Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
My theory is of four camps, radical left, moderate left, moderate right and radical right, the real fight is between the radical left and the moderate right. The radical left thinks that every Trump voter is a racist so they assume that they’re arguing with the radical right, but the best way to define the radical right would be people who want to reform society just as much as they do. This isn’t the Trump voter though since they think America is already great for the most part, in 2016 they wanted to make it great again indicating some change, but it wasn’t the type of massive changes the progressives want. There are no equivalents to Defund the Police type ideas or the Green New Deal on the Trump supporter side because they aren’t as driven by the idea that America is broken and needs massive changes. So the battle is really between change vs status quo, but it’s the progressive left vs the moderate conservatives. The Biden voting type liberal is somewhat left out of the social media flame wars because their natural adversary the extremist right are not in the conversation, and arguments with the moderate right over stuff like healthcare and immigration aren’t sensational enough to get the media’s attention at this point compared to things like a war between cops and black people.

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Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:01 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Steve wrote:
Barrabás wrote:
Prediction: America as we have known it is going to cease to exist by 2021. Either a break up into multiple states, total anarchy, or the Democrat/Republican democratic system will be replaced by something else.

Slower burn than that, I think, despite the conflagration currently evident.

This'll sound crazy, but check the dates for Uranus' full cycle from the year of U.S. inception:

1776
1860
1944
2028

Uranus rules revolutionary change, upheaval, transformation, violent overthrow, the discovery of the new, etc. All the previous dates coincide with pretty significant (the MOST significant, really) 3 periods of United States cultural history. We're seeing the beginning of the fourth.


Astrology is about as real as ancient Egyptian gods. You could've found any number of things that corresponded to those dates.

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Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:07 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
I am all for ranked voting.

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Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:27 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Magnus wrote:
The only way to get a multiple party system is through ranked choice. without that its basically impossible to have on a wide scale.


Romney should run as an independent. he is the still the dream president the gop closet trump hater

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Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:46 am
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Indiana Jones IV

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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
If someone is wondering whether black people can be racist against whites, I'll give you a suggestion: Visit Nigeria. Not the few tourist towns on the coast, but the actual mainland.


Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:35 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 166914001/

the content I'm here for

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Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:43 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
I feel like every human being has the innate instinct of being distrustful of that which is unfamiliar. The disgust portion of the brain applied to other living beings. It keeps animals safe and alive, but it is our responsibility as intelligent creatures to get the fuck over it. I think we should really hammer home the link between racism and lack of intelligence. It's not completely accurate, but it will certainly be an effective form of trolling the ones who think they are smart. Just treat it like a mental disease, the inability to evolve past our ancient origins.


Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:52 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
You're right. Once unintelligent people get to know people that are different from them and others they've associated with, many of them are generally fine with it.

Many here probably know that I'm gay. I'm from a small town of 2,000 in rural West Virginia an hour from the nearest interstate. Growing up, it was very common to hear distasteful, dismissive, and sometimes hateful comments from classmates and adults, even some family, about homosexuality. There IS "hate" there (mostly due to lack of knowledge) towards people of color, different ethnic groups, gay people, etc. But in many cases, it's just due to the lack of education and familiarity about people not like them.

It's not true in every situation of course, but over the years, when I (and others I know of) come out to them, there's almost always a pattern: First, there's a bit of an initial shock. Second, there's a response along the lines of "that's okay, as long as you don't come onto me." And third, they try to go back to a past experience in their life regarding a person different from them (race, orientation, whatever) to help better understand it (you). And that's fine. I have known many people like this, and it's almost always a healthy association/relationship afterwards. They just needed to actually know someone familiar to them that is different from them to understand it and not be afraid/dismissive/hateful about it.

Representation in media and such goes a long way to help educate these people, too. There are a number of gay people and same-sex couples (including married couples) in my little home town now, most of which have lived their all their lives. There are also a couple black people/families now. There were none, no gay people/couples (out of course) or black people when I was growing up. That is a big deal in rural America. I do feel that the country has come a long way over the past 10-15 years in their acceptance.

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Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:32 pm
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Indiana Jones IV

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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Apparently so far 20+ people have been killed in the riots. Mostly black people killing other (innocent) black people. Not sure how that helps to stop police brutality, but I guess it will?


Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:35 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/loc ... 5aafba95cd

Does anybody here want police department dismantled in your city?


Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:02 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Woah! Did not expect it to escalate like that. Well we better stock up on guns!


Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:36 pm
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Indiana Jones IV

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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
The biggest newspaper in Finland run an article yesterday about defunding the police. Apparently there are a lot of people in USA who simply want to reduce taxes by defunding. Some want to use the money in crime prevention, but many don't.


Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:31 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
You always need some kind of armed force, whether you call it police or something else. Of course not everything has to continue in the exact same way, it can be reformed significantly. But you need *someone* with training and guns, who else are you going to call if there's an active shooter? It's not like that's a hypothetical scenario, it happens every other month in the US.

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Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:21 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
I am guessing they will not "call" it police anymore but it will still be police for all purposes.


Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:23 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
HBO Max cancelled Gone with the Wind.

If you were planning a rewatch of any of these movies on a streaming service better do it now:

Tropic Thunder
Django Unchained
Breakfast at Tiffany’s
The Help
Driving Miss Daisy
Crash
White Chicks
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
Song of the South
The Searchers (John Wayne’s whole filmography might just get wiped)

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Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:54 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
I won't be surprised if eventually the same censorship happens to any cop movie that portrays police only as heroes--especially the common trope where the law doesn't apply to the heroes, and they capture the antagonist by not following rules--now re-interpreted as propaganda to glorify police abuse of power. This would be a really long list of movies.


Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:05 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Meh Gone With the Wind has a racial history outside of the movie itself. They wouldn’t let the best supporting actress winner into the ceremony.

Also, everyone knows cops aren’t able to solve cases until they are suspended.


Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:16 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
In all reality, it isn't as if they need to take their only copy back to make alterations before sharing it again--they could simply have quietly added this label without removing it for X time frame. What's the sense in removing this *one* movie to get "appropriate" historical context information for viewers when so many others with offensive elements are freely available?

Nothing else needs an explanation about how some of the content is quite out-of-touch/offensive/whathaveyou? Does every op-ed by a famous filmmaker merit the same response? Also, how is it the duty of the service offering a movie to educate viewers on the history/impact/societal relevance of whatever they've watched? Should movie theaters employ a film historian/approved Officer of Offense to sufficiently explain to viewing audiences which of any given film's ideals are out of touch/racist/homophobic/misogynist/etc before every movie starts?


Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:40 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Shack wrote:
HBO Max cancelled Gone with the Wind.

If you were planning a rewatch of any of these movies on a streaming service better do it now:

Tropic Thunder
Django Unchained
Breakfast at Tiffany’s
The Help
Driving Miss Daisy
Crash
White Chicks
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
Song of the South
The Searchers (John Wayne’s whole filmography might just get wiped)



You can't find Song of the South anywhere. Disney refuses to even sell it. Song of the South is a very racist film. It is much worse than Gone with the Wind. Also, Gone with the Wind will be on there eventually just with a commentary explaining it is historical connotation.


Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:38 pm
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