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 Minneapolis Burning 
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The Kramer
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Everyone is so isolated right now that this might as well be happening in another country.

The officer that killed the guy should be charged with homicide. The rest should be let off. That will satisfy everyone ... right?

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Fri May 29, 2020 3:44 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
The police fleeing the precinct station is crazy. Unreal how these retard cops create such problems for all of the other noble officers.

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Fri May 29, 2020 8:56 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Hell yeah burn it all down.

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Fri May 29, 2020 9:40 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
These looters don't actually care about Floyd. They just saw an opportunity to steal stuff and cause chaos.


Fri May 29, 2020 10:25 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
I actually think there's a realistic chance Floyd passed out/died of an overdose. Need the autopsy here.


Fri May 29, 2020 10:36 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Shack wrote:
I actually think there's a realistic chance Floyd passed out/died of an overdose. Need the autopsy here.


Honestly, Shack. You're fucking pathetic.

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Fri May 29, 2020 11:14 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Chippy wrote:
Shack wrote:
I actually think there's a realistic chance Floyd passed out/died of an overdose. Need the autopsy here.


Honestly, Shack. You're fucking pathetic.


Say Floyd was holding drugs when he was about to get arrested, and swallowed them to keep them from the cops. The cop puts knee on his neck, and Floyd slowly passes out due to the drug OD. They call a stretcher over for the drug situation. (In the version of the video with the stretcher, he doesn't look dead to me when they're moving him). The cop in the video even says "This is why you don't do drugs kids". Also the prosecutor yesterday said there was "other evidence that wouldn't support a criminal charge". The police report also claimed he died after being transported to the hospital after a medical emergency.

Seems believable. Wouldn't rule out a murder, but the cop referencing drugs in the video kind of pushes it over the edge to me.


Fri May 29, 2020 11:21 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Lick that boot.

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Fri May 29, 2020 11:34 am
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The Kramer
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
I don’t really get why people feel the need to defend terrible cops. If any of us fucked up that badly at our jobs there would be major consequences. For some though, wearing the badge gives you permanent immunity.

There is hypocrisy on the left too though. We all made fun of those stupid hicks with assault rifles that stormed the governors mansion a few weeks ago. That they were able to do that without a single arrest or pushback from the police underlines the problem, sure. But in the age of Covid we shouldn’t just support social distancing when it is convenient, no matter how strong the cause is.

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Fri May 29, 2020 11:43 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Shack wrote:
Chippy wrote:
Shack wrote:
I actually think there's a realistic chance Floyd passed out/died of an overdose. Need the autopsy here.


Honestly, Shack. You're fucking pathetic.


Say Floyd was holding drugs when he was about to get arrested, and swallowed them to keep them from the cops. The cop puts knee on his neck, and Floyd slowly passes out due to the drug OD. They call a stretcher over for the drug situation. (In the version of the video with the stretcher, he doesn't look dead to me when they're moving him). The cop in the video even says "This is why you don't do drugs kids". Also the prosecutor yesterday said there was "other evidence that wouldn't support a criminal charge". The police report also claimed he died after being transported to the hospital after a medical emergency.

Seems believable. Wouldn't rule out a murder, but the cop referencing drugs in the video kind of pushes it over the edge to me.


Why stop there? Say Floyd was holding drugs and swallowed them and then handed the officer a note saying as soon as I'm released from custody I'll rape & murder your whole family before going door to door doing the same to all your neighbors--then he swallowed THAT, too, and said "Now prove it!" before laughing manically. So, really, it was actually the officer's duty to knee on his neck until he died in the name of public safety. Medals all around!

In all seriousness, if you really think these crazy things you say then fingers crossed you don't have children and if you do then hopefully those apples both fall far and grow legs ;)


Fri May 29, 2020 11:59 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Magnus wrote:
Shack wrote:
Say Floyd was holding drugs when he was about to get arrested, and swallowed them to keep them from the cops. The cop puts knee on his neck, and Floyd slowly passes out due to the drug OD. They call a stretcher over for the drug situation. (In the version of the video with the stretcher, he doesn't look dead to me when they're moving him). The cop in the video even says "This is why you don't do drugs kids". Also the prosecutor yesterday said there was "other evidence that wouldn't support a criminal charge". The police report also claimed he died after being transported to the hospital after a medical emergency.

Seems believable. Wouldn't rule out a murder, but the cop referencing drugs in the video kind of pushes it over the edge to me.


Ah yes I remember that famous scene in Pulp Fiction when Uma Thurman OD and Travolta tried to make the situation better by putting his knee on her neck.

Even in the ridiculous scenario you described, the police committed unnecessary force and brutality. Even if Floyd doesn’t die, it’s still police brutality. Believing that brutality can only exist when the subject dies is pretty much the height of ignorance.


I think he used excessive force either way. Maybe that's why he got fired even if his bosses were told the death was an OD.


Fri May 29, 2020 1:08 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
The black CNN correspondent and his crew that were arrested this morning just adds to this chaos. Even if they were in an area that was closed by the authorizes, they weren't resisting and were moving away... The governor shouldn't have had to intervene to have them released and then release a statement saying there was "absolutely no reason for the arrests." If there was no reason, why did it happen? I like to think the police force knows what their job entails, but maybe not. Maybe there's a nationwide failure in recruiting and training.

Obviously not all cops are bad. And many good cops have to deal with a lot of unwarranted attacks of all kinds. It's just sad that the few bad ones are allowed into a position that allows them to act on their unacceptable behavior (be it racism or otherwise). The dick that placed his knee over Floyd's neck reportedly had 18 complaints on file. So... why was he still an officer, exactly? How did an individual such as that get into the position he held?

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Fri May 29, 2020 1:13 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Also, it's fucking WILD the the PRESIDENT and the WHITE HOUSE tweeted out threats of shooting protesters.

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Fri May 29, 2020 1:45 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Corpse wrote:
The black CNN correspondent and his crew that were arrested this morning just adds to this chaos. Even if they were in an area that was closed by the authorizes, they weren't resisting and were moving away... The governor shouldn't have had to intervene to have them released and then release a statement saying there was "absolutely no reason for the arrests." If there was no reason, why did it happen? I like to think the police force knows that their job entails, but maybe not. Maybe there's a nationwide failure in training.

Obviously not all cops are bad. And many good cops have to deal with a lot of unwarranted attacks of all kinds. It's just sad that the few bad ones are allowed into a position that allows them to act on their unacceptable behavior (be it racism or otherwise). The dick that placed his knee over Floyd's neck reportedly had 18 complaints on file. So... why was he still an officer, exactly? How did an individual such as that get into the position he held?


I am starting to think the problem is more than failure in training. Police unions are so powerful even governments are afraid of them. Politicians chase their endorsement to win elections. Policies are usually tilted in favor of more powerful law enforcement and more policing. The public are led to believe use of force is ordinary business, escalation is necessary, weapons equals security and security equals freedom. Good cops are afraid to speak up or risk being marginalized because their fellows are protective of each other. All these balloon to one big policing problem.

Of course, failure in training is a problem too. Perhaps someone in the police force and the media can shed lights on how recruits are trained. Do they undergo militarized training? Are they trained to view protestors and reporters as enemies? Do they train to develop herd mentality?



Fri May 29, 2020 2:05 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Shack wrote:
I actually think there's a realistic chance Floyd passed out/died of an overdose. Need the autopsy here.


This is pathetic.

He died because he was an unarmed black man who had his neck kneeled on by a white police officer for 9 minutes.

Seek help for being an apologist for these types of inexcusable actions and always looking to play the contrarian to be controversial.


Fri May 29, 2020 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Magnus wrote:
Maybe he got fired cause he killed the dude. Tip toeing around the fact the excessive force was used is the worst type of racism cause it’s just racism fueled by stupidity.


If he was kneeling on an unresponsive OD- ing guy for like 5 minutes instead of doing anything to help it's still quite horrible. Possibly even 3rd degree or manslaughter if it contributed to his death. But police abuse overdosing guy doesn't play as well as I can't breathe 2.0 for BLM narrative.

There are multiple drug references in the clip

"What are you on?"
"He probably OD-ed"
"This is why you shouldn't do drugs kid"


Fri May 29, 2020 3:27 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Anyone more outraged/vocal about the looting misses the big picture entirely. Yes, looting is bad, but rather than get angry at the looters, let's get angry at the cause of their frustration.

I get where Shack is coming from - the outrage factor within society has become extremely exaggerated, especially with these types of things (see people who still say Mike Brown had his hands up or think a white person beating up a police officer will end well for said white person). Those types have absolutely made it so these types of things cannot be taken at face value but require some research.

But this particular episode is pretty cut & dry. The video made me want to throw up. There aren't any words to describe the insanity and inhumanity of the officerS in that video. It's nuts. They're recklessness is only going to lead further outrage against them.

Bizarre.

The rioting and violence will only get worse when this ends because 99.9999999% of the country is furious over this type of behavior.

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Fri May 29, 2020 3:55 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Magnus wrote:
The dude could of had a literal needle in his arm and it wouldn’t change anything. The police literally committed brutality on him. If you don’t have the simple level of intelligence and humanity to understand that the actions of the police officers were unjust and wrong, then you really need professional help.


I literally just called it unjust and said the charge he got of manslaughter isn't incongruent with my theory. What's just about kneeling on an overdosing man's neck minutes after he fell unconscious?


Fri May 29, 2020 5:11 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Excel wrote:
I get where Shack is coming from - the outrage factor within society has become extremely exaggerated, especially with these types of things (see people who still say Mike Brown had his hands up or think a white person beating up a police officer will end well for said white person). Those types have absolutely made it so these types of things cannot be taken at face value but require some research.


That's a different argument I don't disagree with (basically the one Candace Owens types are making right now), but it wasn't what I was trying to say here. I just think whatever happened, report it accurately. We just saw with the Ahmaud Arbery case the complete refusal as the evidence came in to accept that instead of a lynching of a jogger, it was a citizen's arrest attempt on a burglary suspect that led to a non-premeditated murder while they fought over the shotgun. Why can't we just accept that two tough guys killing Arbery because of Georgia's citizen's arrest law instead of calling 911 on him as the tragedy it is, instead of making into a evil vs good lynching? There is an entire discussion that could have been had about why citizen's arrests are legal in Georgia and how this is only possible because these dudes had shotguns laying around their house, that had to be ignored so people could hold onto their lynched jogger preconceptions that they made 5 seconds after watching the video the first time.


Fri May 29, 2020 5:22 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Quote:
The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (ME) conducted Mr. Floyd’s autopsy on May 26, 2020. The full
report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed
no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had
underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The
combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any
potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.


https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... plaint.pdf

And there you go. He didn't die by choking. Looks like it was pre-existing heart conditions combined with the physical strain and possibly drugs. He was dying underneath the cop not being strangled to death. You can still charge him for contributing to his death with the physical force though.


Fri May 29, 2020 8:28 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Shack,

1) if I go up and punch someone in the face, they fall and crack their head open and die, that's murder. His technical cause of death might be different, but my unreasonable action caused it. Thats kind of the end of story. The officer using unnecessary forces and ignoring the victims cries for help makes this is a pretty open & shut case for the 3rd degree murder charge. No shit the officer did not mean for the person to die, but he was beyond reckless and that was the result/

2) The way they threw the last sentence in there is pretty lame, though. "That may have been in his system"...what a strange statement to make but not specific a position either way.

Shack wrote:
Excel wrote:
I get where Shack is coming from - the outrage factor within society has become extremely exaggerated, especially with these types of things (see people who still say Mike Brown had his hands up or think a white person beating up a police officer will end well for said white person). Those types have absolutely made it so these types of things cannot be taken at face value but require some research.


That's a different argument I don't disagree with (basically the one Candace Owens types are making right now), but it wasn't what I was trying to say here. I just think whatever happened, report it accurately. We just saw with the Ahmaud Arbery case the complete refusal as the evidence came in to accept that instead of a lynching of a jogger, it was a citizen's arrest attempt on a burglary suspect that led to a non-premeditated murder while they fought over the shotgun. Why can't we just accept that two tough guys killing Arbery because of Georgia's citizen's arrest law instead of calling 911 on him as the tragedy it is, instead of making into a evil vs good lynching? There is an entire discussion that could have been had about why citizen's arrests are legal in Georgia and how this is only possible because these dudes had shotguns laying around their house, that had to be ignored so people could hold onto their lynched jogger preconceptions that they made 5 seconds after watching the video the first time.


1) When did it come that Arbery was a thief? MANY people, all over the place, will go check out construction sites. He is on camera going several times and not taking anything.

2) There is definitely this was very odd, strange, bizarre dynamic at play with some people at the moment where it is like they want things to be bad. One day, they want to pretend we are living in the movie Contagion. The next day, they want to pretend we are living in 12 Years a Slave. They have this insane tendency to greatly exaggerate every event that arises negatively and it no doubt ruins their credibility for most people. IDK if they just have an unhealthy desire to feel like they matter in a historical sense, or they're just so self-righteous that they really hope Trump ruins the country just so these people can say "I told you so". But is def. weird.

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Fri May 29, 2020 9:24 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Retracing Ahmaud Arbery’s Final Minutes



Fri May 29, 2020 9:44 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Excel wrote:
Shack,

1) if I go up and punch someone in the face, they fall and crack their head open and die, that's murder.


The cause of death in that scenario is violence. In this case it was Floyd's heart disease combined with drugs. I think that is a difference. If the autopsy is true one of the main reasons Floyd died is being reckless for someone with heart disease by putting himself in physically vulnerable situations (getting himself arrested, it appears being on drugs). The cop using excessive force also contributed but I don't think this is just straight up murder..

Plus how illegal was the neck hold?

Quote:
5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

DEFINITIONS I.

Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)

PROCEDURES/REGULATIONS II.

The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)
The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)
On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
For life saving purposes, or;
On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.
Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy. (04/16/12)
After Care Guidelines (04/16/12)
After a neck restraint or choke hold has been used on a subject, sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation until they are released to medical or other law enforcement personnel.
An officer who has used a neck restraint or choke hold shall inform individuals accepting custody of the subject, that the technique was used on the subject.


http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/pol ... -300_5-300

Seems like it depends on the situation. They have to determine whether it was a conscious or unconscious neck hold, whether either was justified, etc.. I'm not against him being tried for manslaughter, but on the whole like virtually all the BLM cases put out in the media, the shades of grey are much greater than the initial reporting designed to incite the black community.


Fri May 29, 2020 10:16 pm
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
Holy fuck

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Sat May 30, 2020 12:01 am
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Post Re: Minneapolis Burning
The only people who don't belong in this thread are you two if you have no response to my arguments beyond personal attacks. I have already been vindicated once in this thread when my outrageous suggestion that Floyd's cause of death wasn't his breathing being crushed seems to have been proven accurate.

If you want to post on a forum that's stuck in a liberal bubble and where political opinions that aren't based 100% on emotion are met with shrieking hostility and bans, go follow Libs back to Awardsworthy. Between that, r/politics, lefty twitter, TD, etc. there's far more places these days that are partisan echo chambers than ones where conservative and liberal viewpoints can co-exist, and as long as I have influence I intend WOKJ to be the latter.


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