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The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fascism
http://worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=81988
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Author:  Algren [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

Doesn't sound like a misdemeanor to me: http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us- ... gally.html Says fine and/or prison time. :smoke:

Author:  Chippy [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

http://www.politifact.com/florida/state ... lly-crime/

Author:  Algren [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

In that link it says it's a civil violation. That sounds about right. Again though, not a misdemeanor.

Author:  Chippy [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

A civil violation isn't a crime. If you read further, the act of being in the country "illegally" is not illegal. The act of crossing the border "illegally" is a misdemeanor.

Author:  Algren [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

Why can they get up to 6 months prison time then?

Author:  Chippy [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

I mean, the page you provided says on it 3 misdemeanors could get you 10 years in prison... so...

Author:  Algren [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

It also says first offence can be 6 months in prison. Second offence can be more. Both can also just be fines. I don't really get it. Just doesn't sound like illegally crossing the border is a misdemeanor if it's possible you can get prison time for it.

Author:  Chippy [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

idk! better question for groucho, I'd think.

Author:  Algren [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

I think, as with many things, a lot depends on circumstances and interpretation. Different judges/lawyers will see it differently. Those "law experts" in the links are just teachers so I guess their opinion is just that.

Author:  Algren [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

Don't think Groucho specialises in this area so I'd put his opinion even lower than that of the links.

Author:  Chippy [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

I meant more... he could probably tell you if a misdemeanor can lead to prison/jail time.

I think it's insane how many people, and how much, people freak out over people wanting to come to this country to work and pay taxes. Isn't that what they always scream about? I guess they only want white people to work and pay taxes.

Author:  Algren [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

Surely if they come illegally, they're not in the system and therefore many of them don't actually pay taxes. I have no US-specific knowledge of this, but that seems to make sense.

Author:  Chippy [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

That would imply they all have "under the table" jobs. I'd say the majority have official jobs, and most of those jobs will take taxes out of paychecks. They could choose to be tax exempt, but then run the risk of tax fraud, and being deported. They're working harder to stay here than anyone else.

Author:  Algren [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

How can you get an official job without the correct working visa? For employers to pay taxes on your behalf you have to be in the system as eligible to work in the United States, no? And if they have working visas or green cards, there's no reason to cross illegally. Something's a miss here.

Author:  Chippy [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-d ... explainer/

Author:  Groucho [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

It's a crime because we say it is. There's nothing morally wrong about it. My grandparents came over here a hundred years or so ago from Italy when the only requirement was "be sure to register when you get here."

Author:  i.hope [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas



Looks like Trump has found something to learn from a "strong" dictator. And he wants Americans to respond to him the same way as North Koreans do to Kim.

Author:  i.hope [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

Suspension of joint military exercises in South Korea seems to be the first concrete thing coming from the US-NK deal:

Quote:
REPORTER: “Why did you offer to halt the military exercises with South Korea?”

TRUMP: “That was my offer. Just so you understand — do you want to hear it? O.K. I call them war games. I hated them from the day I came in. I said, why aren’t we being reimbursed?”

REPORTER: “That’s North Korea’s term, war games.”

TRUMP: “That’s my term.”

REPORTER: “They use it too.”

TRUMP: “They might use it. We pay for it. We pay millions and millions of dollars for planes and all of this. It’s my term. I said I’d like to halt it because it’s bad to be negotiating and doing it. It costs us a lot of money.”

Fact Check: This requires context. It is unclear how much the joint military exercises with South Korea cost, but Seoul does shoulder some of the financial burden of the presence of American troops.

Gen. Vincent K. Brooks, the top American commander in South Korea, told Congress in February that South Korea paid $830 million in support of American troop activities in 2017, and would increase that contribution by 1 percent this year.

The New York Times was also able to find one instance of Mr. Trump using the term “war games” to describe military drills before he met with Mr. Kim on Tuesday. But Mr. Trump has not been consistent in his criticism of the drills. When he visited South Korea in November 2017, he praised naval drills in the Pacific as a showing of “great strength.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/politics/trump-fox-and-friends-interview.html



Trump said a few days ago he wanted to bring the troops home. So eventual pullout of US troops in South Korea (and Japan) seems to be on the table.

China and Russia can't be more happy that they find a friend who thinks like them.

Author:  Jedi Master Carr [ Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

I don't think China is happy about him at all with the trade war that is starting. I don't see either side backing down. Trump might send our economy into a tailspin and send the world into a recession.

Author:  Darth Indiana Bond [ Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

As long as Trump can blame any negatives on Obama, then he will continue to get support

Author:  Algren [ Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

Well, almost anything the current administration is trying to change is naturally the fault of the previous administration.

Author:  i.hope [ Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

Algren wrote:
Well, almost anything the current administration is trying to change is naturally the fault of the previous administration.


Or it could be changing for the worse or changing to undo one's own fault.

Author:  i.hope [ Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

Jedi Master Carr wrote:
I don't think China is happy about him at all with the trade war that is starting. I don't see either side backing down. Trump might send our economy into a tailspin and send the world into a recession.


I think China should be pleased with the US losing leverage in East Asia and the international venue. Trump's distaste for international trade agreement and attempts to make old allies and other smaller economies cave on bilateral trade disputes may open up more opportunities for China calling the shots.

Author:  Darth Indiana Bond [ Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

Yeah Trump is full on disaster mode right now on the international scene, but it is not having an immediate impact, so his followers don’t know or care of the consequences.

Author:  Algren [ Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

i.hope wrote:
Algren wrote:
Well, almost anything the current administration is trying to change is naturally the fault of the previous administration.


Or it could be changing for the worse or changing to undo one's own fault.


That wasn't the point.

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