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 The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fascism 
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Excel wrote:
Warren is smart as well as tough but good lord nobody about to listen to her for next 4-8 years. so professorial.

Oprah Biden or Booker would win bigly


Booker takes baths in Wall Street money. Berniebros would eat him up

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Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:52 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Bernie Bros were part of our problem last time. They're the left wing equivalent of the alt-right except they're not idiots. Instead, they are purists who think any politician who isn't in 100% agreement with them is evil.

Politics is the art of compromise. I'd rather compromise and win than be stubborn and lose. Better to get 50% of what you want than 0%.

I think Harris or Booker or Warren would do just fine. None are perfect. No politician is perfect. Obama wasn't perfect. Deal with it.

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Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:04 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
I keep an eye on Kristen Gillenbrand too. She doesn't have many cons against her so far.


Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:21 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Groucho wrote:
I think Harris or Booker or Warren would do just fine. None are perfect. No politician is perfect. Obama wasn't perfect. Deal with it.


Because when a voter feels "I'm lukewarm towards them, but I guess I have to vote for them over Trump" they don't get around to going to the ballot box. That's moral behind the loser of almost every general election this millenium. Dems need passion or they will lose because Trump will have it in spades.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:20 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Shack wrote:
Groucho wrote:
I think Harris or Booker or Warren would do just fine. None are perfect. No politician is perfect. Obama wasn't perfect. Deal with it.


Because when a voter feels "I'm lukewarm towards them, but I guess I have to vote for them over Trump" they don't get around to going to the ballot box. That's moral behind the loser of almost every general election this millenium. Dems need passion or they will lose because Trump will have it in spades.

Trump only has passion for Trump and I don't fucking want "passion." Just do your job and leave us alone with your rambling insecurities.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:32 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Shack wrote:
Groucho wrote:
I think Harris or Booker or Warren would do just fine. None are perfect. No politician is perfect. Obama wasn't perfect. Deal with it.


Because when a voter feels "I'm lukewarm towards them, but I guess I have to vote for them over Trump" they don't get around to going to the ballot box. That's moral behind the loser of almost every general election this millenium. Dems need passion or they will lose because Trump will have it in spades.

I dunno, I think that Trump will get an identical amount of votes in 2020 as 2016. The Democratic candidate will have passion simply because of what happened in 2016. They’re going to make sure it doesn’t happen again.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:24 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
zwackerm wrote:
Shack wrote:
Groucho wrote:
I think Harris or Booker or Warren would do just fine. None are perfect. No politician is perfect. Obama wasn't perfect. Deal with it.


Because when a voter feels "I'm lukewarm towards them, but I guess I have to vote for them over Trump" they don't get around to going to the ballot box. That's moral behind the loser of almost every general election this millenium. Dems need passion or they will lose because Trump will have it in spades.

I dunno, I think that Trump will get an identical amount of votes in 2020 as 2016. The Democratic candidate will have passion simply because of what happened in 2016. They’re going to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
This is pretty much what people were saying in 2002, then we wound up with John Kerry in 2004. All because Howard Dean got a little too excited at one of his speeches. So Dems went vanilla, relying on the youth and minority voters to turn up for them and got burned. They always lose the same way, and if it wasn’t for Obama’s A+ Public speaking abilities they probably would have gotten burned during 2008 with Hilary v McCain.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:03 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
I agree that the Dems need to nominate someone with passion and charisma, and that's one of the reasons we lose -- we nominate with the head and not the heart most of the time. The moderates in the middle -- the people who by definition don't pay much attention to politics yet ironically are the ones who decide elections -- go for who "looks more Presidential" nine times out of ten.

However, I think Harris and Booker and Warren have charisma. While not as much as Bill Clinton or Barack Obama, it's enough.

Plus people are really mad at Republicans now. They're losing in Alabama! We are the majority -- we just don't vote like it.

In six of the last seven Presidential elections, a majority of Americans voted for the Democrat.

A majority of Americans support Obamacare. (This is especially true if you call it “the Affordable Care Act.”) A majority thinks gay marriage, abortion and marijuana should be legal. A majority supports more gun control. A majority wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and do not believe that “corporations are people.” A majority want to raise the minimum wage and do something about campaign finance reform. (And a majority support amending the Constitution to overturn the Citizen’s United case).

And, of course, a large majority are against Donald Trump, by one of the largest margins in American history. He hasn’t even finished a year and he has become the most unpopular President since they started polling people.

We just don't come out and vote like we should.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:55 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
What the Democrats should do is let everyone run in the primary, Bernie, Biden, Harris, Warren, Booker, Oprah, etc. Then use that to see who has the most support. Stop going into it already having a pick. If Warren and Biden are in the primary Trump likely never becomes president. Hillary's flaws are exposed early like 2008 and Warren/Biden go on for the win.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:10 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Shack wrote:
What the Democrats should do is let everyone run in the primary, Bernie, Biden, Harris, Warren, Booker, Oprah, etc. Then use that to see who has the most support. Stop going into it already having a pick. If Warren and Biden are in the primary Trump likely never becomes president. Hillary's flaws are exposed early like 2008 and Warren/Biden go on for the win.


Hillary was the pick mostly because she had been campaigning for it for 12 years and had built up commitments and support. Anyone can do that, and it doesn't mean you're going to win. She had done that in 2008 and still lost to Obama. And on the Republican side, Jeb Bush did that last year and fat lot of good that did him.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:13 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
One of the journalists asked the Presidential physician what Trump's life-expectancy was... C'mon now.

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Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:23 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
-The plethora of GOP candidates is the only reason DT won the nomination to begin with. His 33% of media coverage while the other 16 split the 66% remaining.

-Bernie and his bros are terrible for the Democrat party. Capitalism is the greatest thing too happen to planet earth. get the fuck over it. :cool:

-Booker would do well though he is an obvious Obama wannabe. Biden would be good but he is getting old.

We'll see what happens.

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Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:50 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Why Roseanne Is a Trump Supporter on Roseanne Reboot
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“I’ve always tried to have [the show] be a true reflection of the society we live in. Half the people voted for Trump and half didn’t. It’s just realistic,” Barr told reporters at ABC’s Television Critics Association press tour panel in Pasadena, California. “I’ve always attempted to portray a realistic portrait of the American working-class people and, in fact, it was working-class people who elected Trump, so I felt that was very real and something that needed to be discussed,” she continued, “especially about polarization within the family and people actually hating other people for the way they voted, which I feel is not American.”


Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:21 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Excel wrote:
-The plethora of GOP candidates is the only reason DT won the nomination to begin with. His 33% of media coverage while the other 16 split the 66% remaining.


Agreed there. Had there been one strong candidate to be the anti-Trump, that wouldn't have happened. (Then again, all the candidates were poor -- not a Presidential type among them.)

One of the reasons there were so many candidates was because of Citizen's United, which the GOP loves and was their downfall. It used to be that in order to be a viable candidate, you would need many many people contributing to your campaign since there was a limit on how much could be donated. Now, one sugar daddy can keep your campaign going even though you have a very limited appeal to the public as a whole. Absent that, most of the GOP candidates would never have been able to stay in the race.

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Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:27 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Groucho wrote:

In six of the last seven Presidential elections, a majority of Americans voted for the Democrat.


No.

1. 1992: Clinton won with 43% (a plurality of voters);
2. 1996: Clinton won with 49.2% (a plurality of voters);
3. 2000: Gore lost with 48.4% (a plurality of voters);
4. 2004: Bush won with 50.7% (a majority of voters);
5. 2008: Obama won 52.9% (a majority of voters);
6. 2012: Obama won with 51.1% (a majority of voters); and
7. 2016: Clinton lost with 48.2% (a plurality of voters)

Not only that, but the best turnout in any of those years was 2008 with 58.2% of eligible voters voting. So Obama won 52.9% of people that voted or about 30.9% of people eligible to vote. Even following what I am sure you meant (that the Democrat won a majority of those voting), that only holds true in 2 of 7 elections which both went to Obama and to Republicans in 1 of 7.

I don't disagree that in 2000 and 2016 the Democrat won a plurality and lost but that is like saying that a baseball team had more hits than the other team and therefore should win regardless of the amount of runs scored.


Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:15 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Caius wrote:
Groucho wrote:

In six of the last seven Presidential elections, a majority of Americans voted for the Democrat.


No.

1. 1992: Clinton won with 43% (a plurality of voters);
2. 1996: Clinton won with 49.2% (a plurality of voters);
3. 2000: Gore lost with 48.4% (a plurality of voters);
4. 2004: Bush won with 50.7% (a majority of voters);
5. 2008: Obama won 52.9% (a majority of voters);
6. 2012: Obama won with 51.1% (a majority of voters); and
7. 2016: Clinton lost with 48.2% (a plurality of voters)

Not only that, but the best turnout in any of those years was 2008 with 58.2% of eligible voters voting. So Obama won 52.9% of people that voted or about 30.9% of people eligible to vote. Even following what I am sure you meant (that the Democrat won a majority of those voting), that only holds true in 2 of 7 elections which both went to Obama and to Republicans in 1 of 7.

I don't disagree that in 2000 and 2016 the Democrat won a plurality and lost but that is like saying that a baseball team had more hits than the other team and therefore should win regardless of the amount of runs scored.

WTF Caius? Facts aren't welcome in this discussion! :disgust:


Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:35 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
hmmmm

Oprah President and Dr Phil Vice President.

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Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:12 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
So now we have to face a government shutdown. I am on furlough because of it. I am just hoping it doesn't last long.


Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:01 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Caius wrote:
Groucho wrote:

In six of the last seven Presidential elections, a majority of Americans voted for the Democrat.


No.

1. 1992: Clinton won with 43% (a plurality of voters);
2. 1996: Clinton won with 49.2% (a plurality of voters);
3. 2000: Gore lost with 48.4% (a plurality of voters);
4. 2004: Bush won with 50.7% (a majority of voters);
5. 2008: Obama won 52.9% (a majority of voters);
6. 2012: Obama won with 51.1% (a majority of voters); and
7. 2016: Clinton lost with 48.2% (a plurality of voters)

Not only that, but the best turnout in any of those years was 2008 with 58.2% of eligible voters voting. So Obama won 52.9% of people that voted or about 30.9% of people eligible to vote. Even following what I am sure you meant (that the Democrat won a majority of those voting), that only holds true in 2 of 7 elections which both went to Obama and to Republicans in 1 of 7.

I don't disagree that in 2000 and 2016 the Democrat won a plurality and lost but that is like saying that a baseball team had more hits than the other team and therefore should win regardless of the amount of runs scored.


Fine. Let me restate. The Democrats have won more votes than Republicans in six of the last seven elections.

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Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:02 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
So now we have to face a government shutdown. I am on furlough because of it. I am just hoping it doesn't last long.


Weird. I thought we had elected the world's greatest deal-maker.

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Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:03 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Groucho wrote:
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
So now we have to face a government shutdown. I am on furlough because of it. I am just hoping it doesn't last long.


Weird. I thought we had elected the world's greatest deal-maker.


He hasn't shown he is no deal maker so far.


Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:07 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:27 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
"A shutdown falls on the President's lack of leadership. He can't even control his party and get people together in a room. A shutdown means the President is weak"

-Donald Trump 2013

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Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:47 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
There's a Trump tweet or interview for every situation.

Also,



:sleep:

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“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:09 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Glad it was a short shutdown, so I can go back to work, but we could have another shutdown in 3 weeks. At least, they gave us back pay and guaranteed we get back pay if it happens again.


Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:32 am
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