Register  |  Sign In
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:43 am



Reply to topic  [ 2260 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82 ... 91  Next
 The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fascism 
Author Message
Devil's Advocate
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am
Posts: 37887
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Gamaur wrote:
Shack wrote:
I prefer Trump's foreign policy to the fucking disastrous Bush and Obama, between reducing wars more than starting them, North Korea, etc.


He has affected far more tension than he’s prevented, and North Korea was a red herring for all parties involved. In a nutshell, he thinks you’re a zombie that’ll be distracted by fireworks, and in most cases, he’s right.

I don’t think comparing presidencies is helpful - economic systems ebb and flow outside the 4-8 year cycle, and no two conflicts have ever been close to the same. We can’t have any idea how Trump would’ve handled September 11 or Bin Laden, except to extrapolate from the psychology of his presidential decision making - and that, especially the stuff you mentioned in a positive light, has only ever been about him looking good.

He’s harnessed something real that needs addressing - America’s growing distrust in its political authority - but he’s achieved it through the heuristics of his own over-confidence, and through an appeal to emotion rather than reason; the arrogance works in his favour, because people are stupid enough to think that anyone acting confidently, is capable.

I don’t really like any political leaders, but Obama would’ve been even more fucked if he didn’t pull the trigger than if he had. The president doesn’t have enough control over world events to hold him personally accountable for civilians getting killed in a foreign conflict - not in America’s case - he was simply fulfilling his role, as every president would have. If it went against his morals, then that’s kind of expected of a leader. Besides, however you want to spin it to make Obama seem worse and Trump seem better, it’s bleedingly obvious Trump would’ve handled the situation with as much aggression, if not more.

Trump’s biggest achievement is demonstrating that presidents are nothing more than glorified social mascots. Obama was the same, but he was also, in terms of social progress and integrity, a fundamentally better person.


While I agree that they each faced different challenges, it just seems to me that nearly every instinct Obama had on Middle East countries was wrong. His intervention in Libya and Yemen are failures. His strategy on Syria was confused.

I don't see him as a good person. More likely a sociopath who has mastered the false public face. He increased drone strikes over 10x from Bush and therefore the blood of thousands of civilians including children are on his hands. He bombed like 7 countries in 2016 alone. Yes Trump has done nothing to slow the drone strike monster Obama created, by some sources making it worse, which is one of the most disappointing parts of his presidency. But we know Trump is despicable.

_________________
Shack’s top 50 tv shows - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=90227


Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:20 pm
Profile
Homo Dperious
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:26 am
Posts: 14460
Location: Everywhere
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
The wall bullshit is so annoying.


Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:20 pm
Profile ICQ
Keeping it Light
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am
Posts: 11185
Location: Bright Falls
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Yeah, I'm sure Shack wished he lived in Canada ;)


Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:12 am
Profile
Defeats all expectations
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 6665
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
I think Shack lives in Canada.


Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:28 pm
Profile
Defeats all expectations
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 6665
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
The decision to pull troops out of Syria has caught US officials by surprise. It appears Trump made little to no consultation with his cabinet members. So what has driven his decision to make the big announcement? Usually officials would want any drastic military move look calm, low-profile and gradual. Something unusual about this.


Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:48 pm
Profile
Defeats all expectations
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 6665
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
DP07 wrote:
The wall bullshit is so annoying.


Isn't Mexico supposed to pay for the wall? Trump should be in Mexico shutting down their government.


Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:55 pm
Profile
Extraordinary
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 11637
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
So we are now in our third shutdown in a year (one last less than a day but still). I am now furloughed. I am lucky that I was taking leave this week, so it doesn't effect me until next Sunday. We government workers will get backpay and sure it is like a free vacation for some of us (except for the poor TSA and law enforcement workers who have to work). However, it is a slap in the face to the taxpayer and I rather be working than have the time off (of course I love my job so that helps). What is really stupid is he won't get his wall and this all just showmanship on his part. Instead of being an adult, he is acting like a six year old and closing the government.


Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:57 pm
Profile WWW
Homo Dperious
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:26 am
Posts: 14460
Location: Everywhere
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Gamaur wrote:
Shack wrote:
While I agree that they each faced different challenges, it just seems to me that nearly every instinct Obama had on Middle East countries was wrong. His intervention in Libya and Yemen are failures. His strategy on Syria was confused.

I don't see him as a good person. More likely a sociopath who has mastered the false public face. He increased drone strikes over 10x from Bush and therefore the blood of thousands of civilians including children are on his hands. He bombed like 7 countries in 2016 alone. Yes Trump has done nothing to slow the drone strike monster Obama created, by some sources making it worse, which is one of the most disappointing parts of his presidency. But we know Trump is despicable.


He is. Fair points, but not sure I agree re Obama being a sociopath. That’s kind of silly. He’s definitely pro-social narcissistic, but his MO sems ethical for the most part, even factoring for his role in the Middle East.

Sociopathy is just slang for anti-social, which gets classified in the DSM as anti social personality disorder. It’s a big call to say Obama fits that sort of mold; would mean he’s one hell of a good actor. Therefore, closer to a psychopath - which many argue Putin to be. I think Obama’s too fine-tuned as a good guy for there to be any room left for an antisocial underlay. He and his wife seem motivated by a sense of role fulfillment and therefore by image validation, but that’s exactly what you’d expect of anyone with the right traits to reach that level of office. Everybody has narcissism; it’s a basic human characteristic, but it gets ugly when the person uses it to buffer an insecurity, or to vessel themselves socially without wasting energy through conscientiousness or empathy.

Obama isn’t like that. He’s more the constructive kind of narcissist - and as such, he’s extremely idealistic. I think most of his bad decisions can be traced to his having a sense of duty, which sometimes seems to overwhelm basic ethics. He’s like a presidential brown noser. That’s where I agree with him not being remotely perfect. But the forces in presidency appear crazy enough to keep that stuff in a bigger context. What I was more gettig at, is you can’t really draw much from the comparison. Trump is clearly a lot more selfish than Obama was, whom I’d argue had his selfishness in line enough with the role, to eventually be looked back on as the better president.

Seems like a circus over there. Not saying our politics is much better, but it’s like something from Robocop or Idiocracy. You must feel like moving to Canada.


Obama isn’t less selfish than Trump; his goals are just easier to achieve in context of Washington without appearing selfish. If difficult to separate evaluation from the eye of the beholder, even with historical hindsight. I could say the differences between them are superficial with both playing far right politics. But that statement assumes the perspective and positions I started the discussion with.

The main problem with Trump is that he can’t control his image or message the way he wants and therefore he can’t control himself. Trump has gained by exploiting western and liberal mistakes, negligence, ignorance, corruption, inertia, hypocrisy and abuse of power. He his profited by rejecting the establishment, and he wants to represent that rejection, but he too can’t control what that means, the implications, and the consequences. His power owns him. As the metaphor goes, he made a deal with the devil. So he rejects climate science, doing everything to protect the system he tears down.

The rest of your post makes me feel like I’m listening to an Assad loyalist.


Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:12 pm
Profile ICQ
Homo Dperious
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:26 am
Posts: 14460
Location: Everywhere
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
i.hope wrote:
DP07 wrote:
The wall bullshit is so annoying.


Isn't Mexico supposed to pay for the wall? Trump should be in Mexico shutting down their government.


He’s probably more likely to send troops to Mexico than back to Syria.


Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:22 pm
Profile ICQ
Homo Dperious
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:26 am
Posts: 14460
Location: Everywhere
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Gamaur wrote:
Of course Obama’s choices in the Middle East (and in the post-GFC clean-up) were shithouse. What’s less obvious is the usefulness of comparing his conflict choices to that of any other president; the US presidency is typically aggressive and militaristic in counter-attack, and no other recent president would’ve done any differently. Unnecessary casualties are a fundamental dilemma of any presidency when there’s war, which in Obama’s case became outwardly selfish seeming, because he wanted to satisfy the role more than basic morality. I don’t know enough about being a president to scrutinise him any more than that.


Well, yeah, but if you accept the idea that everyone’s just doing their job, nothing will change.


Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:38 am
Profile ICQ
Newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:12 am
Posts: 6
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Trump's protectionist and anti-Chinese policies haven't affected just goods trade.
If we are to believe this article about cross border investments, Chinese real estate purchases in the USA have nosedived while Canadian ones soared (or at least, their proportion became much higher due to the huge decrease in Chinese investments).

So, it looks like no economical sector is left unaffected by Trump's policies. Good, bad, irrelevant for us common folk, it's up to you to decide, but it exists and does affect the national economy.


Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:22 pm
Profile
Extraordinary
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 11637
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Trump is completely unhinged. The idea that he could shut the government down for months or years is insane. Our economy would collapse, especially when TSA and Air Traffic Controllers stop coming to work. As a government worker, I am outraged, particularly at the damage being done to the National Parks, they are being overflowed with trash and human waste. It is just horrible. I figure either there will be a compromise or one side will cave. I still think it be over by the end of the month.


Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:57 am
Profile WWW
Extraordinary
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 11637
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
We have now reached the longest shutdown in US history. It is getting pretty ridiculous with hundreds of thousands not getting paid and some of them are working without pay. I find it very embarrassing.


Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:29 pm
Profile WWW
Extraordinary
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 11015
Location: Warren Theatre Oklahoma
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Well tell Nancy and Chuck to allocate 0.0000001% of the federal budget to build/repair/replace fake walls/steel slats/fencing that doesn't work even though there are already fake walls/fencing/slats on various sections of the various border states that apparently do not work even though they all previously voted to build all these fake/immoral fences/slats/walls in the past.

All this fake outrage over 5.7 billion out of a trillion+ dollar budget was and is nonsense.

#wallsdontwork

_________________
2009 World of KJ Fantasy Football World Champion
Team MVP : Peyton Manning : Record 11-5 : Points 2669.00
[b]FREE KORRGAN

45TH PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.A. DONALD J. TRUMP
#MAGA #KAG!
10,000 post achieved on - Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:49 pm


Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:41 pm
Profile
Hold the door!

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm
Posts: 20302
Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
It’s so dumb though. Trump needs to either

A) give up
B) declare a state of emergency

Would it better to come to a compromise? Yes but it’s no use arguing with brick walls like Schumer and Pelosi.


Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:19 pm
Profile
Keeping it Light
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am
Posts: 11185
Location: Bright Falls
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
What compromise would you suggest?

Trump did make a bit of a critical mistake, that now hurts him at the negotiation table, to say Mexico would pay for the wall.


Last edited by stuffp on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:32 pm
Profile
Defeats all expectations
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 6665
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
nghtvsn wrote:
Well tell Nancy and Chuck to allocate 0.0000001% of the federal budget to build/repair/replace fake walls/steel slats/fencing that doesn't work even though there are already fake walls/fencing/slats on various sections of the various border states that apparently do not work even though they all previously voted to build all these fake/immoral fences/slats/walls in the past.

All this fake outrage over 5.7 billion out of a trillion+ dollar budget was and is nonsense.



So you say the existing barrier is fake. How can you guarantee Trump's wall won't be as fake?

That $5.7b figure alone is fake. The admin's own DHS estimate puts the bill at a conservative $21.6b, barring eminent domain and other legal and construction issues. I suppose Trumpists would not want a jerry-built walled prison, right? And don't let Mexico get away with this. Mexico needs to be shut down to pay for the wall.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-wall-exclusive/exclusive-trump-border-wall-to-cost-21-6-billion-take-3-5-years-to-build-internal-report-idUSKBN15O2ZN

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/apr/28/scott-peters/would-trumps-border-wall-cost-same-one-and-half-us/


Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:35 pm
Profile
Don't Dream It, Be It
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:45 pm
Posts: 37152
Location: The Graveyard
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
stuffp wrote:
What compromise would you suggest?

Trump did make a bit of a critical mistake, that now hurts him at the negotiation table, to say Mexico would pay for the wall.


He said on Friday that he never said such a thing though. How dare you say otherwise! :mer:

Anyway, the worst thing about all of this is how McConnell is choosing to do nothing. The Senate isn't doing its duty. Who cares if Trump says he'll veto any bill that would reopen the government? That's how the process works. Let Trump veto the bill or bills, and then let the them come back to the floor for the override vote. Then, if it passes, it passes; and if it fails, it fails.

I imagine that if this goes on for months, resulting in many federal employees to seek employment elsewhere, not to mention how badly low-income families that rely on services such as HUD and food stamps to get by will be impacted, that enough purple or blue state Republican senators may force McConnell's hand in this.

_________________
Japan Box Office

“Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.”
“We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.”
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
“You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.”
"Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."


Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:14 pm
Profile WWW
Hold the door!

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm
Posts: 20302
Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
stuffp wrote:
What compromise would you suggest?

Trump did make a bit of a critical mistake, that now hurts him at the negotiation table, to say Mexico would pay for the wall.

Oh I guess not a Compromise. A give in. You can’t compromise on a wall. There either is or isn’t one haha.


Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:47 pm
Profile
Keeping it Light
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am
Posts: 11185
Location: Bright Falls
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Yeah, ad I'm not sure what Democrats would want, but I imagine, Trump must be able to give somethings in return, I'm not sure if he has, but that should be a place to start. You give me the wall, and I'll give you this, this and that.

Also, funny:


Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:54 pm
Profile
Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 12:07 am
Posts: 3127
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
The Democrats, many of whom will be presidential candidates, are afraid of their base if they support a bill that opens the government but funds the wall. It's 99% politics and 1% financial/moral/ideological at this point for Democrats. Compromise means losing. I truly believe that for Trump the reason is 60% ideological (i.e. his views on immigration) and 40% political.

_________________
I believe in God as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.

I was blind, but now I see.


Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:33 am
Profile
Defeats all expectations
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 6665
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
The logic is pretty simple.

Rule:
Funding of the wall requires approvals from both Congress and the President.

Current situation:
Congress disapproves the funding.
The President approves the funding.

Conclusion:
Funding of the wall is rejected.

Now who is holding federal employees hostage when the wall money has already been rejected?

Trump is a stable genius, smart enough to know better than to abuse President's emergency power. Let's hope.


Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:36 am
Profile
Extraordinary
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 11015
Location: Warren Theatre Oklahoma
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Trumpbots do not care that Mexico isn’t literally sending pallets of cash to pay for walls,fences,slats whatever you call it.
The 5.7 billion of nothingness is only for 200+ miles of structure. He tried offering a outrageous DACA fix plus...well actually comprehensive illegal immigration reform which I hate that term but that deal fell through.
Any deal like that now would need complete funding again.
Finally, some folks have amnesia here because remember when chuck ran the senate and wouldn’t bring up endless House passed republican bills to the senate floor for a vote? Well because Obama wouldn’t sign them or he himself would say they were doa so why bother. What Mitch is doing is no different.
At this point it’s either give him 3.5 crappy billion for some immigration something or trump declares the national emergency and we go to court which he will win as the law is plain as day but there’s more than a few mentally ill judges out there to say otherwise until it gets to the SC. Hopefully Ginsburg has stepped down by then btw. She’s close

_________________
2009 World of KJ Fantasy Football World Champion
Team MVP : Peyton Manning : Record 11-5 : Points 2669.00
[b]FREE KORRGAN

45TH PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.A. DONALD J. TRUMP
#MAGA #KAG!
10,000 post achieved on - Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:49 pm


Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:00 am
Profile
Keeping it Light
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am
Posts: 11185
Location: Bright Falls
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
I imagine those bills Schumer refused were not a matter of government shutdown.


Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:33 am
Profile
Extraordinary
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 11015
Location: Warren Theatre Oklahoma
Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
THis budget bill wouldn’t be either except you have one half of congress opposing 5.7 billion no matter what .

I think they should do a full immigration cleanup. Go back to that DACA stuff . The dems do have the upper hand her I think so why not take it and get almost everything you want from trump and give him the walls that don’t work at the same time . Everyone wins !

_________________
2009 World of KJ Fantasy Football World Champion
Team MVP : Peyton Manning : Record 11-5 : Points 2669.00
[b]FREE KORRGAN

45TH PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.A. DONALD J. TRUMP
#MAGA #KAG!
10,000 post achieved on - Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:49 pm


Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:42 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 2260 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82 ... 91  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.