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 The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fascism 
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Cuomo just destroyed, and in embarrassing fashion, Rep. Gaetz (FL) just now on CNN. Recommended viewing as I'm sure it'll be all over social media soon.

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Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:46 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Yeah, I just watched an 8min clip about that, not wild, but entertaining enough. I like Cuomo.


Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:16 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Good that the shutdown was just finished when Trump wanted to travel to Davos.
:roll:

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
The memo is released bombshell information according to Fox News. Not sure what it reveals.

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Darth Indiana Bond wrote:
The memo is released bombshell information according to Fox News. Not sure what it reveals.

It sounds like a big meh.


Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:18 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
To be honest, the whole thing sounds pretty meh

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
He who smelt it dealt it. Democrats spent a year and a half trying to make Russiagate happen but the real scandal is the Democrats shadiness and corruption trying to make it happen and doing everything else they can to take down Trump. Not surprised at all. If Republicans did this it would be getting called Watergate 2.0 by the media

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Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:03 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Isn’t this all old information? The GOP loves to make nothing into something, for instance Benghazi, Fast and Furious, and just about every Obama “scandal”

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Here's my question (from my blog post this morning):

I’m trying to summarize this memo that has the GOP all a-twitter. Let’s see if I got it straight.

Our intelligence agents knew Carter Page was in deep with the Russians, had given speeches in Russia about how great Russia was, and was suspected to be a Russian agent.

They knew he was also working with the Trump campaign and was probably involved with deals between the campaign and Russia. They had already been following him and had a legitimate warrant to do so.

Their job is to gather information from whatever sources they can. They got a hold of a document that had information first gathered by Republicans trying to stop Trump and then Democrats trying to stop Trump. They used that information to obtain a second legitimate warrant. And then a third.

I think that’s it.

The GOP claims that the investigators looking into this and suspecting Trump of being a part of this were “biased” and therefore the investigation into this conspiracy should be suspended because it’s all made up (despite the fact that we already have people who have pled guilty).

Nowhere do I see any claim that the information in the document was incorrect or that the warrant wasn’t justified.

As for bias, allow me to say that I work with police officers every day, and when they have a suspect, yes, they tend to be “biased” against them. That’s kind of their job.

So. Can someone please tell me what all the fuss is about? What am I missing?

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Groucho wrote:
So. Can someone please tell me what all the fuss is about? What am I missing?

Just some light treason

Your post ignores the key part of this, that the dossier they used to get a warrant to spy on Page was financed by the Clinton campaign and "salacious and unverified" according to Comey's later testimony. The FBI used a dossier they knew was unverified so they could spy on Trump

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
But Page is still doing illegal things and the Trump campaign is still suspect right?

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Shack wrote:
Groucho wrote:
So. Can someone please tell me what all the fuss is about? What am I missing?

Just some light treason


I mean this respectfully.

How, in the name of all logic, can one be so upset over this memo in the name of "treason" etc but NOT be substantially more upset about Donald Trump Jr Russia meeting? Have we become so used to Trump breaking rules that we are numb to it? I really mean that as an honest question. It's so bizarre seeing some Republicans getting worked up about this memo after not caring about DTJ meeting and subsequent cover up lies.

Enough with this nonsensical cherry picking on all sides.

Donald Trump was under investigation due to multiple associates having confirmed direct ties to Russia. Not just the one mentioned in the memo but Papadopolous and others. We have direct evidence from the man himself that Donald Trump Jr - at worst - tried to collude with Russian lawyers. DTJ lied to public (though possibly not government) by saying it was about adoption and Kushner didn't know details. We then saw direct emails saying exactly what it was and know that Kushner was copied.

Even if you are a republican, what are you missing? What more do you need? if you're not outraged by this, the only conclusion can be that you do not think this type of behavior is that bad, because Trump Jr is as guilty as it gets of at least trying to collude. Politics has always been a game of posturing and spinning, but Trump and his supporters ability to fully believe their own bullshit is at a totally different than it has ever been before. The guy somehow gets a pass for doing something much worse than he is in turn accusing others of doing. So bizarre,

Someone needs to just start suing the shit out of him for slander. He needs to shut up with these items that he cannot prove. He has lowered all of our collective IQ's through his constant shameless hypocrisy but a judge can shut him up. Opinions are opinions, but for the facts those opinions are based on, Speak there truth or DO NOT SPEAK.

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Your post ignores the key part of this, that the dossier they used to get a warrant to spy on Page was financed by the Clinton campaign and "salacious and unverified" according to Comey's later testimony. The FBI used a dossier they knew was unverified so they could spy on Trump


This is not true. Factually not true. You and others need to stop saying this because it is NOT true. Page was already viewed as a Russian spy for years and was now working on a Presidential campaign that had an additional existing link (Papadopoulous).

What the fuck is wrong with some people. They have gone full simple jack retard. The FBI and Trump's DOJ didn't want there memo out. You think they are all in on some anti-Trump conspiracy? Maybe our rule bending for decades President is actually just being himself.

It was sad to watch people who swore that Obama would be a huge failure begrudgingly admit his presidency wasn't a disaster. Now many of these people who swore Trump would improve things are now trying to justify the near complete loss of faith in American government systems. Astounding.

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Groucho wrote:
Here's my question (from my blog post this morning):

I’m trying to summarize this memo that has the GOP all a-twitter. Let’s see if I got it straight.

Our intelligence agents knew Carter Page was in deep with the Russians, had given speeches in Russia about how great Russia was, and was suspected to be a Russian agent.

They knew he was also working with the Trump campaign and was probably involved with deals between the campaign and Russia. They had already been following him and had a legitimate warrant to do so.

Their job is to gather information from whatever sources they can. They got a hold of a document that had information first gathered by Republicans trying to stop Trump and then Democrats trying to stop Trump. They used that information to obtain a second legitimate warrant. And then a third.

I think that’s it.

The GOP claims that the investigators looking into this and suspecting Trump of being a part of this were “biased” and therefore the investigation into this conspiracy should be suspended because it’s all made up (despite the fact that we already have people who have pled guilty).

Nowhere do I see any claim that the information in the document was incorrect or that the warrant wasn’t justified.

As for bias, allow me to say that I work with police officers every day, and when they have a suspect, yes, they tend to be “biased” against them. That’s kind of their job.

So. Can someone please tell me what all the fuss is about? What am I missing?


You missed that half the GOP, all the Democrats, all the FBI, all the Department of Justice are all in on a top secret "deep state" conspiracy against Trump.

Sounds believable.

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
But Excel, if people have not read the writing on the wall yet, what makes you think they ever will unless Trump himself concedes he did illegal activities, and even then, they will say what about Obama/Hilary/Bill?

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Excel wrote:
How, in the name of all logic, can one be so upset over this memo in the name of "treason" etc but NOT be substantially more upset about Donald Trump Jr Russia meeting? Have we become so used to Trump breaking rules that we are numb to it? I really mean that as an honest question. It's so bizarre seeing some Republicans getting worked up about this memo after not caring about DTJ meeting and subsequent cover up lies.

Enough with this nonsensical cherry picking on all sides.

Donald Trump was under investigation due to multiple associates having confirmed direct ties to Russia. Not just the one mentioned in the memo but Papadopolous and others. We have direct evidence from the man himself that Donald Trump Jr - at worst - tried to collude with Russian lawyers. DTJ lied to public (though possibly not government) by saying it was about adoption and Kushner didn't know details. We then saw direct emails saying exactly what it was and know that Kushner was copied.

Even if you are a republican, what are you missing? What more do you need? if you're not outraged by this, the only conclusion can be that you do not think this type of behavior is that bad, because Trump Jr is as guilty as it gets of at least trying to collude. Politics has always been a game of posturing and spinning, but Trump and his supporters ability to fully believe their own bullshit is at a totally different than it has ever been before. The guy somehow gets a pass for doing something much worse than he is in turn accusing others of doing. So bizarre,


Yes, I care more about the FBI and DOJ trying to sabotage one of the candidates in an election and likely the Clinton campaign trying to rig the election and Obama trying to sabotage Trump's presidency, than I do the president's Fredo son meeting with a Russian lawyer

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It was sad to watch people who swore that Obama would be a huge failure begrudgingly admit his presidency wasn't a disaster. Now many of these people who swore Trump would improve things are now trying to justify the near complete loss of faith in American government systems. Astounding.


I am sure there are right wingers who would write that paragraph as:

"It was sad to watch people who swore that Obama would be a huge success begrudgingly admit his presidency was a disappointment. Now many of these people who swore Trump would wreck America are now trying to justify the near complete abuse of power in American government systems. Astounding"

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Shack wrote:
Yes, I care more about the FBI and DOJ trying to sabotage one of the candidates in an election


If this were actually what took place, there would be widespread outrage, Shack. Only the most extreme Republicans are saying this because they know that to be false. Point blank - of the FBI sabotages anybody in 2016, it was Clinton with the nonsensical "reopening of investigation" announcement while they NEVER announced anything about Trumps investigation!

Be fair & reasonable, please.

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and likely the Clinton campaign trying to rig the election and Obama trying to sabotage Trump's presidency, than I do the president's Fredo son meeting with a Russian lawyer


Shack, what?

1. How did Clinton try to rig election?
2. How did Obama try to sabotage Trump? Barack Obama's administration didn't even leak that Trump was under FBI investigation for gods sake.

Be fair and reasonable.

Quote:
"It was sad to watch people who swore that Obama would be a huge success begrudgingly admit his presidency was a disappointment. Now many of these people who swore Trump would wreck America are now trying to justify the near complete abuse of power in American government systems. Astounding"


1. The only people Obama under performed with are ultra liberals. He grew the economy at a ridiculous rate following an epic mess. Where is the issue?

2. The jury is out on Trump. Be fair and reasonable. Abuse of power? What are you talking about?

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
You can't sabotage a candidate if it's true, Shack.

If the police get reliable information that someone is selling drugs, and they follow up and find out that yes, someone is indeed selling drugs, have they sabotaged that person?

The FBI got reliable, clear information ... what were they supposed to do, say "Nope, sorry, even though we are dedicated to fighting crime and routing out enemies of America, by golly, this information came from a source with a bias! Sure, it seems to be true, but it's better to let the bad guys go, right?"

Sheesh. The ways Trump supporters will bend over backwards to excuse the guy in a way you know they'd never do if it was a Democrat in there. Jesus, Clinton couldn't even get a blow job (which is NOT illegal) and they impeached him. We've already had a couple of guilty pleas in this particular conspiracy as well as a few other indictments and they still pretend there's nothing there.

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Groucho wrote:
You can't sabotage a candidate if it's true, Shack.

If the police get reliable information that someone is selling drugs, and they follow up and find out that yes, someone is indeed selling drugs, have they sabotaged that person?

The FBI got reliable, clear information ... what were they supposed to do, say "Nope, sorry, even though we are dedicated to fighting crime and routing out enemies of America, by golly, this information came from a source with a bias! Sure, it seems to be true, but it's better to let the bad guys go, right?"

Sheesh. The ways Trump supporters will bend over backwards to excuse the guy in a way you know they'd never do if it was a Democrat in there. Jesus, Clinton couldn't even get a blow job (which is NOT illegal) and they impeached him. We've already had a couple of guilty pleas in this particular conspiracy as well as a few other indictments and they still pretend there's nothing there.


Good God, Clinton was impeached for perjury, not a blowjob.


Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:48 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
That’s the thing, they have already had folks plead guilty.

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Groucho wrote:
If the police get reliable information that someone is selling drugs, and they follow up and find out that yes, someone is indeed selling drugs, have they sabotaged that person?

The FBI got reliable, clear information ... what were they supposed to do, say "Nope, sorry, even though we are dedicated to fighting crime and routing out enemies of America, by golly, this information came from a source with a bias! Sure, it seems to be true, but it's better to let the bad guys go, right?"


The entire key of this is that the FBI DIDN'T have reliable, clear information. The dossier appears to be trash. It's the one that says Trump is into golden showers. It's by a guy who desperately wanted him to lose and paid for by the opposition. There's no way it should be used as trustworthy and they knew it hence hiding information about it from the court.

The analogy "If the police get reliable information that someone is selling drugs, and they follow up and find out that yes, someone is indeed selling drugs, have they sabotaged that person?" also implies they have actually found the guilt they were looking for in Russiagate, when really, they've come out with nothing of substance. Russiagate so far looks like one step above Obama birtherism at this point, a desperate conspiracy theory by the salty losing party to drag their political opponent's reputation.

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Shack wrote:
Groucho wrote:
If the police get reliable information that someone is selling drugs, and they follow up and find out that yes, someone is indeed selling drugs, have they sabotaged that person?

The FBI got reliable, clear information ... what were they supposed to do, say "Nope, sorry, even though we are dedicated to fighting crime and routing out enemies of America, by golly, this information came from a source with a bias! Sure, it seems to be true, but it's better to let the bad guys go, right?"


The entire key of this is that the FBI DIDN'T have reliable, clear information. The dossier appears to be trash. It's the one that says Trump is into golden showers. It's by a guy who desperately wanted him to lose and paid for by the opposition. There's no way it should be used as trustworthy and they knew it hence hiding information about it from the court.

The analogy "If the police get reliable information that someone is selling drugs, and they follow up and find out that yes, someone is indeed selling drugs, have they sabotaged that person?" also implies they have actually found the guilt they were looking for in Russiagate, when really, they've come out with nothing of substance. Russiagate so far looks like one step above Obama birtherism at this point, a desperate conspiracy theory by the salty losing party to drag their political opponent's reputation.


Ah, of course. You know more than the experts, and your political views have nothing to do with your opinion.

And those people who have already pled guilty and those who have already been indicted? It's all in your imagination! It never really happened! Because of course, people always plead guilty to huge national conspiracies when there is absolutely nothing there!

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
They plead guilty for lying to the FBI but it's pretty ticky tack. The contact Michael Flynn was making with Russian Ambassador was legal and his job. He just told the FBI the wrong thing.

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Any Democrat acting as if there is no exaggeration or ridiculousness to some of the Trump items is blind. There absolutely are stories about Trump that are as outlandish as the Obama birth certificate nonsense, though the Trump ones are not based in new-age racism like the Obama one was. The ability to jump to the EXTREME of extremes to criticize as political opponent has shown itself on both sides over the past 10ish years.

That said. Lets be fair.

-Russia obviously influenced our election.
-The Trumps, at a minimum, surrounded themselves with multiple poorly vetted people.
-DTJ openly tried to collude with Russia.
-The FBI not announcing that Trump is under investigation but also announcing the reopening of Hillary's investigation is beyond hypocritical and straight up absurd when considered in context.

Regardless of what happens to Trump, Mueller must be allowed to finish his investigation because we cannot have what happened in 2016 happen again. American elections are for Americans to decide, and no one else.

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
For sake and love of USA, few want to see any president - of either party - embroiled insect a scandal.

Trey Gowdy summed it up well:

Quote:
"To the extent the memo deals with the dossier and the FISA process, the dossier has nothing to do with the meeting at Trump Tower," Gowdy said. "The dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica. The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos' meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn't have anything to do with obstruction of justice."


If they are a totally, 100% innocent, the President and his associates actions are totally bizarre. There would be no 'obstruction of justice' angle at this point if they didn't do things with the clear intention of undermining or hurting the investigation. Helen Keller could see that.

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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
I am not going to argue with Shack because he is talking like a complete idiot or brainwashed by Trump. There is a deep state like there is and Illuminati or the holocaust is made up or the moon landing is fake.


Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:59 pm
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