The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fascism
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67043
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
New Jersey was named after the Isle of Jersey in the English Channel. This is due to British influence over the colonies in the early years of the United States. New Jersey was originally called New Netherlands and was renamed after the Dutch colonists lost the land to British colonists.
_________________STOP UIGHUR GENOCIDE IN XINJIANG FIGHT FOR TAIWAN INDEPENDENCE FREE TIBET LIBERATE HONG KONG BOYCOTT MADE IN CHINA
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Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:09 pm |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm Posts: 4767
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Chippy wrote: Caius wrote: Groucho wrote: Algren wrote: So you answer is ... "because it's Trump!". Does Trump have a history of starting global conflicts? Give him time. He didn't have the power to do so before. You know what always helps a President who is low in the polls? A war. It didn't help Obama in Libya, Yemen, and Syria or Bush in Iraq. Bush's approval spiked from 60 to over 70 in March 2003. http://www.gallup.com/poll/116500/presi ... -bush.aspxYes and what was it in mid 2005? Did people like Bush for Iraq in 2006 when the Democrats took the House?
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:47 am |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
lol what
Nobody said multiple wars does anything. I proved the point that a war for a sinking approval rating can boost it. It did, clearly.
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:23 am |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Chippy wrote: lol what
Nobody said multiple wars does anything. I proved the point that a war for a sinking approval rating can boost it. It did, clearly. This is so well-established as to not be questioned by anyone who seriously studies politics. I remember my professors calling it the "rally around the flag" effect. What is also well-established is that it is temporary. The initial patriotic support for a war dies out the longer the war lasts.
_________________Buy my books! http://michaelaventrella.com
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:55 pm |
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zwackerm
Hold the door!
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm Posts: 20346 Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Was it right to withdraw from Vietnam?
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:11 pm |
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Libs
Sbil
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 48626 Location: Arlington, VA
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Health care vote not happening today, maybe tomorrow. These people are so bad at this.
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:55 pm |
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zwackerm
Hold the door!
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm Posts: 20346 Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
This healthcare bill is dumb. How hard is it to make a good one? It seems neither party can get it right.
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:08 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
I mean, one is vastly, vastly, vastly superior to the other.
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:13 pm |
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zwackerm
Hold the door!
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm Posts: 20346 Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Chippy wrote: I mean, one is vastly, vastly, vastly superior to the other. Really all they had to do to Obamacare is remove the mandate, allow you to pick your doctor and your plan, and find a way to get the premiums and copays back down to what they were.
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:43 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
You mean get premiums for wealthy people back down, and poor people back up?
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:46 pm |
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Heinrich Himmler
Cream of the Crop
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:17 pm Posts: 2716 Location: Berlin, Germania
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:46 pm |
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zwackerm
Hold the door!
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm Posts: 20346 Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Chippy wrote: You mean get premiums for wealthy people back down, and poor people back up? My parents aren't wealthy and their premiums skyrocketed. And they can lower the premiums without raising them for the poor. Healthcare is something that saves lives, while I don't necessarily believe that should be the point of government, it's much more important than a lot of other government programs that should be cut.
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:03 pm |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm Posts: 4767
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Groucho wrote: Chippy wrote: lol what
Nobody said multiple wars does anything. I proved the point that a war for a sinking approval rating can boost it. It did, clearly. This is so well-established as to not be questioned by anyone who seriously studies politics. I remember my professors calling it the "rally around the flag" effect. What is also well-established is that it is temporary. The initial patriotic support for a war dies out the longer the war lasts. So then what is the importance of the statement? GHWB was in and out of Iraq in like 30 days and lost to Clinton. Eisenhower wom in the middle of the Korean War. Johnson decided to not even bother running again. GWB had dismal ratings. I saw no boost for Obama for wars in Yemen, Libya, and Syria. Wilson was disliked for WWI, although polling was not available. Oh yes, I am obviously not a "serious student' of politics. I don't disagree that a President may have a short term boost in polls but I see no electoral impact of it on the positive side.
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:14 pm |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm Posts: 4767
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
zwackerm wrote: Was it right to withdraw from Vietnam? No. We betrayed our allies and it led to a blood bath.
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:15 pm |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
zwackerm wrote: Chippy wrote: I mean, one is vastly, vastly, vastly superior to the other. Really all they had to do to Obamacare is remove the mandate, allow you to pick your doctor and your plan, and find a way to get the premiums and copays back down to what they were. The mandate is there because Republicans insisted that we couldn't have a health care plan unless we provided for a way for people to pay for insurance. You can pick your doctor now, depending on which plan you buy, just like before. All Obamacare does is require you to have insurance, just like you have to have car insurance. You can pick which car insurance you want, after all. Premiums and copays are a problem. Blame insurance companies for that. Here's the easiest solution that Democrats wanted and couldn't get passed: medicare for all, like every other damn country has. No more insurance companies being a middle man and providing no care whatsoever; no more rate increases; everyone covered, costs spread over the entire country. Even if taxes went up to cover this, there is no way they'd go up as high as you're paying for insurance (and, if your employer pays it, well, technically that's your money since it's going as a benefit for you -- you should get a salary increase because your employer is no longer having to cover you). Simplest, easiest solution and the bureaucracy is already there and has been tested for 50 years. But insurance companies hate it, and guess who is one of the largest contributors to politicians?
_________________Buy my books! http://michaelaventrella.com
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:37 pm |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Caius wrote: Groucho wrote: Chippy wrote: lol what
Nobody said multiple wars does anything. I proved the point that a war for a sinking approval rating can boost it. It did, clearly. This is so well-established as to not be questioned by anyone who seriously studies politics. I remember my professors calling it the "rally around the flag" effect. What is also well-established is that it is temporary. The initial patriotic support for a war dies out the longer the war lasts. So then what is the importance of the statement? GHWB was in and out of Iraq in like 30 days and lost to Clinton. Eisenhower wom in the middle of the Korean War. Johnson decided to not even bother running again. GWB had dismal ratings. I saw no boost for Obama for wars in Yemen, Libya, and Syria. Wilson was disliked for WWI, although polling was not available. Oh yes, I am obviously not a "serious student' of politics. I don't disagree that a President may have a short term boost in polls but I see no electoral impact of it on the positive side. I never said that. I said it is a short term solution. And Trump is just the kind of short-sighted politician who would start a war just to see his "ratings" increase.
_________________Buy my books! http://michaelaventrella.com
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:38 pm |
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zwackerm
Hold the door!
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm Posts: 20346 Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Groucho wrote: zwackerm wrote: Chippy wrote: I mean, one is vastly, vastly, vastly superior to the other. Really all they had to do to Obamacare is remove the mandate, allow you to pick your doctor and your plan, and find a way to get the premiums and copays back down to what they were. The mandate is there because Republicans insisted that we couldn't have a health care plan unless we provided for a way for people to pay for insurance. You can pick your doctor now, depending on which plan you buy, just like before. All Obamacare does is require you to have insurance, just like you have to have car insurance. You can pick which car insurance you want, after all. Premiums and copays are a problem. Blame insurance companies for that. Here's the easiest solution that Democrats wanted and couldn't get passed: medicare for all, like every other damn country has. No more insurance companies being a middle man and providing no care whatsoever; no more rate increases; everyone covered, costs spread over the entire country. Even if taxes went up to cover this, there is no way they'd go up as high as you're paying for insurance (and, if your employer pays it, well, technically that's your money since it's going as a benefit for you -- you should get a salary increase because your employer is no longer having to cover you). Simplest, easiest solution and the bureaucracy is already there and has been tested for 50 years. But insurance companies hate it, and guess who is one of the largest contributors to politicians? I agree with this. While I think that the government does overreach with all the programs it funds, I do think that a social safety net is for the benefit of society, and such safety net would include healthcare, food and shelter.
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Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:45 pm |
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zwackerm
Hold the door!
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm Posts: 20346 Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Genius idea! To gain automatic citizenship, the illegal immigrants must help build and help pay for the wall! Solves two issues bingo bango!
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Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:47 am |
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Libs
Sbil
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 48626 Location: Arlington, VA
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Bill was pulled before it could go to vote. l.o.l
Art of the deal indeed.
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Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:10 pm |
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Chippy
KJ's Leading Pundit
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:45 pm Posts: 63026 Location: Tonight... YOU!
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
8 years, a majority in both houses, and a republican president. And they failed SPECTACULARLY.
shoot them all into space.
_________________trixster wrote: shut the fuck up zwackerm, you're out of your fucking element trixster wrote: chippy is correct
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Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:12 pm |
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zwackerm
Hold the door!
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:26 pm Posts: 20346 Location: Where they shot Knock at the Cabin
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
They are beyond stupid to think it ever could have passed.
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Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:21 pm |
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Libs
Sbil
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 48626 Location: Arlington, VA
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
zwackerm wrote: They are beyond stupid. All you needed to say
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Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:28 pm |
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Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11009 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Considering the GOP has built so much of their current identity around destroying the Affordable Healthcare Act, this is bad.
_________________
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Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:50 pm |
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Corpse
Don't Dream It, Be It
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:45 pm Posts: 37152 Location: The Graveyard
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Darth Indiana Bond wrote: Considering the GOP has built so much of their current identity around destroying the Affordable Healthcare Act, this is bad. This should have been a grand slam win for them. It's quite baffling, and embarrassing, that they couldn't even get this bill passed through the House. If a particular voting group, in this case the Freedom Caucus, can 100% block your top priority bill, you've gotta compromise with them, even if it means changing key components of the bill itself. Sure, it's a complicated issue, but this was the#1 priority of the GOP and registered Republicans (74% based on polls). You can't really afford to not deliver on that then, especially with Congressional control. Also, Trump placing blame on the Democrats is idiotic. No Republican voted for Obamacare, and no Democrat was going to vote for this bill.
_________________Japan Box Office “Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.” “We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.” “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” “You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.” "Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."
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Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:49 pm |
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Libs
Sbil
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 48626 Location: Arlington, VA
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Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Darth Indiana Bond wrote: Considering the GOP has built so much of their current identity around destroying the Affordable Healthcare Act, this is bad. Trump's first 60 days have been comprised of: -Disastrous flop attempt to repeal Obamacare -Two failed travel bans -Baseless wiretap allegations that have been soundly rejected by the intelligence community -FBI investigation into Russia -Flynn resignation -Sessions recusal -Mexico refusing to pay for a wall Do you think his administration is tired of all this winning so far? lol. Of course, the mindless zombies who voted for him don't care that he has failed at legitimately everything so far.
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Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:06 pm |
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