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 Who is leading China? 
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Commander and Chef

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Post Who is leading China?
[youtube2]http://youtube.com/watch?v=t1Yiv3ckPXk[/youtube2]


Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:50 pm
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now we know
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Post Re: Who is leading China?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45859650

China doesn't do itself any favours with bullshit acts like this. Makes it look like North Korea.


Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:59 pm
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The Kramer
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Post Re: Who is leading China?
Colin Kaepernick would just disappear and never be heard from again in China.


Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:58 pm
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Defeats all expectations
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Post Re: Who is leading China?
This banned-in-China clip shows her singing (ad-libbing) China's national anthem in an upbeat and casually funny way.



Last edited by i.hope on Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:50 pm
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Defeats all expectations
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Post Re: Who is leading China?
Flava'd vs The World wrote:
Colin Kaepernick would just disappear and never be heard from again in China.


Kneeling is considered one of the highest forms of showing respect in China and the ethnic Chinese diaspora. If someone famous did it during a football match, Chinese authorities would have to think twice before acting upon it. Because that would make the person doing it even more a hero.

What Trump and his loyals are doing is unfortunately giving authoritarian leaders around the world a firm justification for the state dictating personal display of patriotism. Because the West does it too.


Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:58 pm
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Homo Dperious
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Post Re: Who is leading China?
I just have to comment: that assumes the west represents the moral high ground. In truth no nation makes something valid because they do it. It was before and it will be after, regardless of whether people recognize it.


Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:49 pm
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Defeats all expectations
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Post Re: Who is leading China?
DP07 wrote:
I just have to comment: that assumes the west represents the moral high ground. In truth no nation makes something valid because they do it. It was before and it will be after, regardless of whether people recognize it.


Liberal ideas such as constitutional government, representative democracy and individual rights that originated from the West did have a significant impact on the democratization of countries like South Korea and Taiwan.

What is ironic is Trump is using the playbook of authoritarian governments like China and the Philippines to undermine those liberal ideas.


Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:55 pm
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Homo Dperious
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Post Re: Who is leading China?
i.hope wrote:
DP07 wrote:
I just have to comment: that assumes the west represents the moral high ground. In truth no nation makes something valid because they do it. It was before and it will be after, regardless of whether people recognize it.


Liberal ideas such as constitutional government, representative democracy and individual rights that originated from the West did have a significant impact on the democratization of countries like South Korea and Taiwan.


Western values are not synonymous with ‘individual rights’ since it doesn’t follow that all ‘individual rights’ are western values, or that all western values support ‘individual rights’. Values themselves, almost by definition, are not necessarily good things, they depend on context and application. So it’s possible to think that there is something positive about the motivation for western values even if in reality they fail, are flawed to the point of being counterproductive, are used as excuses for other bad ideas, they further insidious political agendas, or are used to ignore difficult realities. In other words they function like values have across cultures through history. Case in point, authoritarianism is justified as a source of social stability, a solution to problems like drugs, and a foundation for sovereignty, moderation, and law and order.

I don’t agree with the notion that they originated from the west anymore than the idea that civilization originated from Rome. In any case I think the west’s influence is centered around economics. Social liberalism is correlated very strongly with economic stability. And the west uses economic power and the sanctions regime to do all sorts of things inconsistent with their own values so as to have economic stability for their allies and economic hardship for their enemies. Sure China’s economic progress won’t change the government, but it’ not North Korea either. In any case these sorts of ideas were as inevitable as civilization itself.

If you were to give me a yes or no quiz, you might think I support western ideas. You might even say I much further to the other side of the political spectrum, away from ‘authoritarianism’. I consider such values secondary though, if I even consider them relevant at all. At best I think they are simplistic. I for one abhor western values, since I don’t define the purpose of such things or the epistemology in a way that is consistent with western values or finds it acceptable or sufficient. It’s evident they mean different things in the abstract than practice. Putting things into practice demands respect for truth regardless of whether it satisfies you emotionally, serves your desires, or appears to challenge your values.


Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:46 am
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